Bluelight

Thread: Nitrous withdrawal...

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 26 to 50 of 50
  1. Collapse Details
     
    #26
    And I don't understand why noobs like you respond to noobs like that perpetuating the whole useless post thing.

    there's no such thing as nitrous withdrawal (obligatory on topic communication )


    Edit: Don't forget me. I didn't call you an idiot. That's patronizing here!
     

  2. Collapse Details
     
    #27
    Bluelighter
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    My 4 Cornered Room
    Posts
    540
    nitrous oxide has been used medically in regulated conditions, you wouldn't expect your dental patient to become addicted to n2o. what we are talking about is prolonged (ab)use of nitrous, and prolonged use/abuse of anything will most likely lead to wd's. even if the wd's are psychological, they are still wd's.

    my friend used to be a nitrous head and he said mushrooms helped him out during the worst of his withdrawls. that and alcohol.
     

  3. Collapse Details
     
    #28
    There's a major difference in the severity and medical importance.
     

  4. Collapse Details
     
    #29
    Take a day or two off the nitrous. (do other things..its pretty easy to forget about when you're stoned or doing something else lol)

    Take vitamins.

    Eat.
     

  5. Collapse Details
     
    #30
    Quote Originally Posted by chompy View Post
    nitrous oxide has been used medically in regulated conditions, you wouldn't expect your dental patient to become addicted to n2o. what we are talking about is prolonged (ab)use of nitrous, and prolonged use/abuse of anything will most likely lead to wd's. even if the wd's are psychological, they are still wd's.

    my friend used to be a nitrous head and he said mushrooms helped him out during the worst of his withdrawls. that and alcohol.
    Misuse of the term. Withdrawal characterizes the effects of abstinence from a substance that causes a change in metabolism where the substance becomes a necessity for normal bodily function. Only opioids and Nicotine produce a metabolic dependancy and withdrawal syndrome.

    Drugs like Alcohol, Barbiturates, etc do not create a dependancy and metabolic need, they simply depress front brain activity and function to the point that when use is stopped, the body reacts with a rebound effect in the form of delerium tremens, seizures, anxiety, insomnia, etc. Cocaine, Amphetamines, etc cause a similar problem, only in reverse: excess front brain stimulation, resulting in a rebound effect of lethargy, anhedonia, somnolesence, etc Both are examples of abstinence syndrome.

    All substance abusers and people who abuse compulsive activities like sex and gambling have in common a disruption and dysfunction of the reward system in the brain involving the neurotransmitters like Dopamine and Seratonin. When the compulsive activity is stopped, whether compulsive sex, gambling (or in this persons case inhaling N2O), a period of anxiety, depression, craving, restlessness, lethargy, etc develops due to a change from the behavior learned and adapted to by the 'happy chemicals' in the brain.

    So, no, there is no Marijuana withdrawal, sex withdrawal, N2O withdrawal, gambling withdrawal.

    In terms of treating compulsive activity, Prometa treatment seems to be hopeful (much more so than anti-depressant drugs of various classes).

    The reason I harp on this as often as I can is that individuals and society lump people with substance abuse problems together, and treat them the same. Whether you go to rehab for Heroin addiction, alcoholism, compulsive Cocaine or Marijuana use, you are basically given the exact same treatment: Benzodiazepines/anxiolytics, sleeping pills, talk therapy. Same goes for compulsive gamblers and sexaholics for that matter. Sedatives, sleeping pills and talk therapy.

    This one size fits all bullshit does not work and does not help anyone but the purveyors of overpriced rehab facilities that charge tens of thousands of dollars for less than a month in a shabby room and $2 worth of old generic pills.

    It seems that people with problems with Cocaine, Meth or any other drug want the same status as Heroin/opioid addicts (plenty of such users on this board exhibit this kind of recognition seeking behavior for their problem), which ends up with everyone being treated the same when they have very different conditions that need to be treated differently.

    Really, opioid addiction is much easier to treat than compulsive gambling, compulsive Cocaine or Methamphetamine use, alcoholism, etc. Treating a coke abuser like a Heroin addict and putting him in 'detox' and 12 step meetings and giving him plenty of Clonidine and Valium and sending him home cured after 21 days is a copout on the part of the system, even though it gives the user the recognition they want- that they suffer as much as a Heroin addict- whatever consolation prize that is.
     

  6. Collapse Details
     
    #31
    Misuse of the term. Withdrawal characterizes the effects of abstinence from a substance that causes a change in metabolism where the substance becomes a necessity for normal bodily function. Only opioids and Nicotine produce a metabolic dependancy and withdrawal syndrome.

    Drugs like Alcohol, Barbiturates, etc do not create a dependancy and metabolic need, they simply depress front brain activity and function to the point that when use is stopped, the body reacts with a rebound effect in the form of delerium tremens, seizures, anxiety, insomnia, etc. Cocaine, Amphetamines, etc cause a similar problem, only in reverse: excess front brain stimulation, resulting in a rebound effect of lethargy, anhedonia, somnolesence, etc Both are examples of abstinence syndrome.
    Wow, you sound so smart and then you say something incredibly stupid like this. How do you suppose you become dependent on opioids because of metabolic need? What, they become some sort of vitamin that your body needs? Whatever you mean by this, it either doesn't exist or plays a tiny to small role in physical dependence. Much more is related to changes in the brain (Physiological Reviews, Vol. 81, No. 1, January 2001, pp. 299-343)

    No.

    Alcohol and Benzos and Barbs all produce a very real physical dependence in a manner very similar to opioids. They cause changes in GABA receptors which, due to an increased need for stimulation of them to acheive normal receptor function, when the drug has been discontinued is missing, and as such these receptors aren't properly stimulated by endogenous ligands. And so, just like with GABA receptor inverse agonists (I'm including GABA-A receptors and the relevant binding sites when I say "GABA receptor), you end up with anxiety, seizures, increased heart rate, blood pressure, dt's, etc.

    They are produce an equal or worse physical dependence than opioids.
     

  7. Collapse Details
     
    #32
    Bluelighter Ho-Chi-Minh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    on planet earth
    Posts
    5,979
    honestly I cant see why some of you are denying that any pleasurable activity/substance can produce addiction/dependance/withdrawl to varying degrees.


    Nitrous definitely is no exception; it acts on some of the same receptors that ketamine/pcp/dxm do, the addictive hallucinogens. Not to mention its short duration of action make it prime for cravings, maybe not like nicotine, but dont deny that it can be addictive.
     

  8. Collapse Details
     
    #33
    okay, i'm a major nitrous addict. i've probably done at least 1000 boxes (not cartridges) in the last ten years. i've never experienced any type of physical w/d. i have had b12 labs drawn and they were VERRRY low. i now give myself IM injections every other week. don't take oral supplements IF you can get to a doctor who will prescribe you an IM injection in the hip. it's not painful. some doctors may have you come to the clinic for the injection, some may have the nurse instruct you how to administer them yourself. if you can't go that route, oral supplements are better than nothing. b12 deficiency causes a lot of irritability, fatigue and just basically makes you feel like shit once you're out.

    it is a completely psychological addiction though. no physical dependency.

    and as someone said: 600 cartridges in 3 days, not surprised. i avoid ordering bulk simply because i will do them all in a day or two. the psych addiction is VERY powerful. for me it has to do with the immediacy. simply breathing it in and instant effect.

    it does mimic benzos and opiates but doesn't act on the receptor sites to cause physical dependency. in other words, you're not going to have seizures (as in benzo w/d).

    best solution: just quit. it's expensive and lasts sooo short in time. though i'm telling myself at the same time. the craving is overwhelming. i know.
     

  9. Collapse Details
     
    #34
    i would like to add that the lack of physical withdrawal symptoms does not diminish the OP's negative experience. yeah, it's in your head. your brain can be a bitch sometimes.

    you should take B12 every day because little is absorbed orally, and that varies among individuals.
     

  10. Collapse Details
     
    #35
    Bluelighter
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    .
    Posts
    355
    Clin Neuropharmacol. 1996 Jun;19(3):246-51.

    Role of dopamine mesolimbic system in opioid action of psychotropic analgesic nitrous oxide in alcohol and drug withdrawal.

    Lichtigfeld FJ, Gillman MA.

    Psychotropic analgesic nitrous oxide (PAN) has been used successfully in the treatment of alcohol and drug withdrawal in > 15,000 cases. It is an opioid and thus the first gaseous member of the opioid family. We propose the existence of two mutually antagonistic opioid systems as underlying addictive withdrawal states; mu and kappa. PAN as a multipotent opioid activates these systems. Dopamine (DA) activity in the nucleus accumbens appears to be controlled by kappa- and mu-receptors, with mu enhancing and kappa inhibiting release. In morphine and alcohol withdrawal, there is severe inhibition of dopamine release from nucleus accumbens. We thus infer that a probable major therapeutic effect of PAN is in modulating this dopamine system, thereby correcting the severe deficit in dopamine release found in withdrawal states. This has been achieved without any transfer of addiction to PAN in any of the treated patients because of modulation of DA in the nucleus accumbens by PAN. This effect may also explain its anticraving action.

    ----

    What do you guys think about this? Says it activates mu and kappa opioid receptors, but at the same time, attenuates cravings for morphine and alcohol. Randomized double blind trials confirm this.

    edit: although the results of another RCT say this is BS...
     

  11. Collapse Details
     
    #36
    edit
    Last edited by sockpuppet; 19-08-2012 at 16:54.
     

  12. Collapse Details
     
    #37
    Your massive depression and craving ceasing a "psychologically addictive" substance are PHYSICAL.

    Nitrous is very very reinforcing and addictive for many people. I've seen a lot of horror stories and physical problems as a result of nitrous abuse.
    Just because you feel crappy without something doesn't mean you're physically addicted to it. There is good reason to differentiate phsychological addiction and physical dependence. They're different things, have different causes, and different treatments.

    I might feel depressed if my wife died, but that doesn't mean I'm physically dependent on her.

    nonsensical, stupid argument.
     

  13. Collapse Details
     
    #38
    It is an NMDAr antagonist, no?

    Surely upregulation, then corresponding rebound effect upon removal of the drug could cause excitotoxicity?

    Is acute withdrawal of pore-blocker/competitive NMDA antagonists such as PCP or ket known to cause excitotoxicity? I hear reports of tolerance to ket forming after heavy use, it appears NMDA receptors do upregulate with chronic exposure to antagonists, or is the extracellular level of glutamate so tightly regulated as to have insufficient concentrations of endogenous glutamate to cause excitotoxicity via an upregulation of the receptor regardless of how extensive it is.

    I.E more binding sites available, but no more glutamate hanging around to bind there, meaning regardless of how many places there are to stick it, if there is none extra to be stuck then excitotoxic damage should not occur?
     

  14. Collapse Details
     
    #39
    Bluelighter girlygrrl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Southwest, USA
    Posts
    800
    Nitrous is habit-forming but not physically addictive. It can be very moreish. Much like how the act of lighting up and smoking a cigarette becomes habit so too can the act of loading up a charger into a dispenser and hitting it can become habit.

    I've done 600 chargers in one setting on a few occasions; this is why I have a rule of not doing chargers sober anymore as nitrous alone is way too moreish once you get started.

    If you do a lot of nitrous you'll start feeling sick, which is not withdrawal symptoms in the classical sense. It can be due to not eating enough, over-exposure to cold, grease/residue, and b12 depletion. If you can get b12 sublingual supplements as those absorb better. You have to take b12 if you're going to be doing a lot of nitrous.

    Some chargers have a lot of nasty gross residue, so you probably want to get a "nitrokit" and/or use the tshirt-filter method as described here:

    http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/nitr...article2.shtml

    If you find nitrous feeling addictive buy some salvia leaf as I've noticed a hit of salvia leaf by itself instantly breaks any kind of compulsive / moreish behavior IME.
     

  15. Collapse Details
     
    #40
    As for barbs not creating an addiction...bull fucking shit.

    I have been physically dependent on them, and it was the worst withdrawals I have ever experienced, weeks long full blown DTs, fully immersive hallucinations, paranoid psychosis, apparently I died and was in resus after an OD (I have little memory of that)

    Makes high-dose GBL withdrawal, opiate withdrawal and benzo WD look like a kid who just had his candy taken away by comparison. I believe my current, severely functionally-impairing memory encoding and short term/working memory problems were caused by that withdrawal, as barbs also competitively block AMPA type glutamate receptors.

    I will be trying an AMPAkine soon, as soon as two reagents for its synthesis arrive, I am hoping that will remedy the deficit.

    So in short, barbs DO cause addiction and physical dependence, absofuckinglutely so, and one of the worst, I have never experienced alcohol addiction, and never plan to either, but I bet it is similarly bad, the combination of glutamate antagonist plus GABAa agonist/allosteric potentiator produces one hell of a WD syndrome, it appears that barb withdrawal from a huge habit can cause permanent damage, it is years since my nasty experience there, and still I have severe memory, motivation issues, and find it difficult to stay awake.
    Last edited by Limpet_Chicken; 04-01-2011 at 01:44.
     

  16. Collapse Details
     
    #41
    Bluelighter girlygrrl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Southwest, USA
    Posts
    800
    nitrous isn't a barbiturate though...
     

  17. Collapse Details
     
    #42
    No shit.

    I was referring to the earlier poster's idiotic comment that barbs are incapable of causing dependence.

    And also, making the point that possibly, a glutamatergic rebound from N2O MAY be possible, albeit mediated through NMDARs rather than AMPARs, which may well cause excitotoxicity.
     

  18. Collapse Details
     
    #43
    Bluelighter girlygrrl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Southwest, USA
    Posts
    800
    Possibly, I have some degree of DP/DR that could be related to doing a lot of DXM and Nitrous
     

  19. Collapse Details
     
    #44
    Bluelighter DexterMeth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    worthless neck beard scum
    Posts
    52,542
    I'd think that prolonged over exposure would really jack up your CNS.
     

  20. Collapse Details
     
    #45
    Bluelight Crew negrogesic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Negronesia
    Posts
    4,707
    Yes, one can experience physiological withdrawal from the gas, but its typically mild, and in the form of cravings, with few "physical" manifestations. If you are using tanks, every day, for extended periods of time, i'd be more worried about things beyond that of the discontinuation symptoms........

    Bottom line, yes, its mild, and somewhat rare......
     

  21. Collapse Details
     
    #46
    N2O shows cross tolerance with benzodiazepines
    N2O shows cross tolerance with opiates
    N2O releases dopamine
    Argue the semantics all you want, it's a drug you should have a bit of respect for.
     

  22. Collapse Details
     
    #47
    Bluelight Crew negrogesic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Negronesia
    Posts
    4,707
    Clearly, I think most of us here can agree here that nitrous oxide is no more of a drug than it is a gas with drug-like effects (these effects being primarily 'drug-like'). In other words, do no revive a dying thread if you have nothing of merit to add....
     

  23. Collapse Details
     
    #48
    Bluelighter
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    where i can see you
    Posts
    72
    wow what a messed up thread to read. just sayin'.

    seems everyone has their own semi-arbitrary definition of what constitutes "psychological addiction", "physical addiction", or just likin' something a whole lot and being bummed that it's gone. and the guy who says he is not physically dependent on his wife, you mean you married someone you are NOT physically dependent on? but this is not advanced relationship discussion. have to laugh at the peeps who think 'opiates are physically addicting' and 'all else is psychological'. opiate withdrawal does not kill you (unless you count suicide). benzo/alcohol/barbiturate is known to be very dangerous and sometimes fatal.

    OVERLOOKED FACET?: N2o is not just a drug-like gas. there are gasses (namely organic solvent vapors) that do not bind to specific receptors but exert effects by modifying lipid properties of membranes (specifically neurotransmitter vesicles). then there are others, like ethanol, that have specific binding sites (ethanol binds to GABA receptor as an allosteric modulator, there is also a separate benzo binding site) AND also change lipid solubility, resulting in both specific receptor-mediated effects and wide-ranging metabolic effects. And nitrous most definitely causes release of massive amounts of neurotransmitters, so while it definitely has NMDA inhibiting receptor mediated effects, it also has more general metabolic effects probably very similar to alcohol, but will depend highly on usage patterns since duration is much shorter.

    why on earth anyone would say drug X or Y is not physically addictive, or that there are only one or two (or 3) 'types' of addiction, is beyond me. i think our individual brain chemistries vary quite a bit more than many realize; it is our social integration that allows us to communicate efficiently. just a thought.
     

  24. Collapse Details
     
    #49
    Bluelight Crew negrogesic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Negronesia
    Posts
    4,707
    I didn't think anyone would honestly take my comment serious :

    "nitrous oxide is no more of a drug than it is a gas with drug-like effects (these effects being primarily 'drug-like')"
     

  25. Collapse Details
     
    #50
    Quote Originally Posted by sockpuppet View Post
    Hilarious......I've never seen so much use of the outdated and meaningless term "psychological addiction" as on BL.

    What people usually mean when they say something is only "psychologically addictive" is that there is no obvious, dramatic somatic WD syndrome. No consistent diarrhea or fever or seizures if withdrawn. All of these drugs alter brain chemistry and generally speaking the brain attempts to adapt to maintain homeostasis. There are all manner of cascade and indirect effects that we are only beginning to understand with most of these exogenous chems.

    Your massive depression and craving ceasing a "psychologically addictive" substance are PHYSICAL.

    Nitrous is very very reinforcing and addictive for many people. I've seen a lot of horror stories and physical problems as a result of nitrous abuse.
    I have to agree with this for the simple reason that how one feels directly correlates to neurotransmitter levels and ratios. All feelings, sensations and thoughts have a physical basis, so by extension all habits, cravings and needs are physical symptoms.
     

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •