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View Poll Results: Does MDMA lose it's "magic"?

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  • Yes

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Thread: MDMA Magic & Loss of Magic - Truth or Illusion?

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    MDMA Magic & Loss of Magic - Truth or Illusion? 
    #1
    Interesting discussion guys about MDMA losing it's magic. Why do you think this happens?

    I resisted the party invites and MDMA for a long time as I was the only one of us into sports but one day felt a bit low and said I will come with you tonight.
    Took MDMA for the first time and as I was coming up I knew I was going to love it. Came out of my shell and felt a happiness I had never felt before.

    Trouble was in my ignorance I felt the need to take it every week, Friday, Saturday and often Sunday. I was just as happy at a club as I was on my own at home.
    Most of my friends sensibly only did this every 3 or 4 weeks and smoked weed in between.
    I never did like weed though.

    After about 18 months I was just getting wired with no euphoria.
    Then I was getting next to nothing off pills or powder but my mates were getting good effects so I realised I had damaged something, I assume Serotonin receptors?
    Although I do not get depressed generally in life and can see no lasting effects.

    I really miss the rush and euphoria and want to experience it again.
    I hope Methylone can give me even 25% of the feelings MDMA gave me, that would make me satisfied.
     

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    #2
    hope Methylone can give me even 25% of the feelings MDMA gave me, that would make me satisfied.
    Sounds a bit shit to me. How is a quarter of the feelings of MDMA ever going to satisfy. Would be so dissapointing especially seeing as your longing for those happy MDMA days when it was all new.
     

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    #3
    Spade, if it's shit I wont buy anymore.
    25% of the feeling MDMA used to give me is 25% better than nothing.

    I'll soon know anyway as I am trying it tomorrow. My will power has improved, there is no way I could have had anything in the house and not sampled it but parents are visiting me tomorrow so I can wait.

    Anyway I would love to know some of the others opinions on why MDMA becomes less effective the more we take it.
     

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    #4
    I didn't mean methylone sounded a bit shit (but it is pretty shite IMO) I meant having just 25% of the feelings of MDMA. Would be underwhelming and leave you longing for more, like a poor pill or low dose of crystal.

    It's less effective because you get used to it, build a tolerance, the novelty wears off and it becomes no longer as 'magic' etc.
     

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    #5
    Bluelighter Treacle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheSpade View Post
    It's less effective because you get used to it, build a tolerance, the novelty wears off and it becomes no longer as 'magic' etc.
    Agreed. It doesn't mean damage has been caused.
     

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    MDMA Magic & Loss of - Truth or Illusion? 
    #6
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    Illusion. Been taking MDMA regularly (and often extremely heavily) for fifteen years and it's just as good as it ever was. Others seem less lucky.

    Discuss, theorise and opine away

    PS: Split this from the "It's NOT Coke" thread as MDMA "magic" has bugger all to do with coke and the subject comes up all the time.
     

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    #7
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    i think that the majority of the "magic" is the users perception of how things were when they first started taking pills.

    The usual rose tinted specs scenario.

    Ie when I first started taking pills

    I was young
    I was living the student dream
    I was shagging around blisfully
    I was out 3 nights a week clubbing
    I had just discovered a chemical that could make me feel amazing
    My body was able to quickly recover from comedowns
    And even if it didn't, I had no real responsibilities to worry about
    Every day was just another day to do whatever the fuck I wanted and dream about the weekend
    Pills were in abundance and were generally of good to excellent quality.


    I think that when you add up all these things, that's where the "magic" came from.

    The biggest one is the novelty factor of it all.

    I remember the first time I ever landed a 360 on my snowboard. I thought I was on top of the world. What a fucking rush. But after a while, you're popping 360's all over the fucking place so you just don't get as overwhelmed by it all.

    I just think that it's one of the very few things as an adult that truly opens your eyes in a way that makes you think "fuck! You mean I can feel like this every time i take one of these????!!!!!"

    That feeling of excitement, nervousness and anticipation passes with time.
     

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    #8
    Bluelighter Ceres's Avatar
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    absolutely agree with kappadaftie.

    Think about the first time you saw your favourite film for example. If you watched it again every weekend for the next 6 months you would find it loses its "magic" pretty quickly.
     

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    #9
    Yeah, also quality going down played a part as well I guess. When high quality pills or powder came around it was just as intense as it ever was.

    I think the loss of "magic" is simply as you realise it is all plastic and the happyness and empathy etc is not real but simply created by a drug masking the realities of the world, sadly. I believe it is all in perception of the experience and how you feel in yourself and out of yourself (toward others, the drug etc) that define the experience.

    Changing mindset in order to make it great again is probably a bigger ask than any of us could pull off though unfortunately.

    Good luck with the methy
     

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    #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aros2k View Post
    I think the loss of "magic" is simply as you realise it is all plastic and the happyness and empathy etc is not real but simply created by a drug masking the realities of the world, sadly. I believe it is all in perception of the experience and how you feel in yourself and out of yourself (toward others, the drug etc) that define the experience.
    I very much disagree with this. MDMA is about as far from "plastic" and "unreal" as a drug can be. Feels completely natural - like the piece of me that is missing. Has made huge changes in my life, self-image and relations with others - extremely long-lasting and positive changes. Guess I perceive it in a good way so never lost the "magic" and never will

    Quote Originally Posted by Aros2k View Post
    Changing mindset in order to make it great again is probably a bigger ask than any of us could pull off though unfortunately.
    Take more (good) MDMA (and plenty acid) then - works for me
     

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    #11
    Surely the feeling that everyone is your best friend, full of trust in everyone etc has been jaded by reality shammy?
     

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    #12
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    Not in the slightest, Aros. Gets stronger every time I use MDMA and stays with me when I don't. The psyches have probably added to this effect but I have it anyway. It's all in how you perceive it, as you say
     

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    #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shambles View Post
    I very much disagree with this. MDMA is about as far from "plastic" and "unreal" as a drug can be. Feels completely natural - like the piece of me that is missing. Has made huge changes in my life, self-image and relations with others - extremely long-lasting and positive changes.
    I 100% agree with this, it felt as though all the grime and filth, insecurity and paranoia that had swamped my fragile teenage ego over the years had suddenly been washed away, and for the firs time in my life I realised I had as much right to exist as anyone else, and furthermore, for the first time I felt a sense of connection and empathy with my fellow humans, and more specifically my friends, instead of simply fearing them.

    I realise everyone has different experiences but for me and the context I used MDMA in, it was incredibly useful as a way to deal with what I would call post-traumatic stress. Context is everything.
     

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    #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ceres View Post
    it felt as though all the grime and filth, insecurity and paranoia that had swamped my fragile teenage ego over the years had suddenly been washed away, and for the firs time in my life I realised I had as much right to exist as anyone else, and furthermore, for the first time I felt a sense of connection and empathy with my fellow humans
    This is precisely the effect it had - and still has - on me. I'm still have (but to a far lesser extent than before) a sense of fragility, insecurity and paranoia... Along with a very healthy dose of filth and grime of the very best sort, naturally

    The realisation of the "right to exist," as you put it was a big part of it for me too, as was the empathy and connection with every other person - and all other living (and often non-living) beings. Previously I was distant, dislocated, pseudo-aloof and alienated from virtually everybody. Cannabis helped some but, shortly afterwards, I discovered MDMA (and at least as - and possibly even more importantly - LSD) and it changed everything.

    That's not to say there were no negative consequences initially. Once those barriers were broken I was still very prone to pretty extreme moodswings and deep depressions and periods of mania and borderline psychosis (not specifically related to drug use - lifelong issues) but they lessened over time with repeated use.

    Once I exorcised (or drugged into submission) most of my demons with heroin (and booze, other assorted downers and stims), I returned to the MDMA/psychedelic fold and am improving in every possible way with every passing day. Even my doctors, social workers and drugs counsellors agree

    If anything, I find MDMA/psyche use is actually becoming more magical over the years rather than less. The initial changes were an enormous kickstart, but the changes become deeper and more ingrained each time
     

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    #15
    There is a very long thread about this at drugs forum, where a lot of people have been trying to return the originial 'magic' of MDMA by various methods. So far, the best way people have reported is by using high doses of St John Wort for a few weeks before use (some saying normal doses do it (900mg, some pushing it up to >5000mg a day!). But some have also reported side effects from this too, so it may not be an entirely safe thing to try. Another interesting idea explored in there is SSRE's role in potentiating the experience (tianetpine being one), because they work in the opposite way of SSRI's (which completely blunt MDMA's effects) they could potentially enhance it and return the magic. Also Oxytocin administration has been tried, as downregulation of the oxytocin system with recurrant MDMA use has been thought to play a prominent role in reduction of its original 'magic' effects. Oxytocin is the 'love' drug released when women give birth, when people are in love, and when peoples skin touch, etc, etc. Definately worth a look:

    Returning the "magic" - The Quest Drugs Forum

    For a long time experienced MDMA and ecstasy users have been plagued with the problem of the loss of magic. Which has brought along numerous arguements including that of common use is bad and the use of MDMA should be saved for special occasions among others. Losing the magic being defined as losing those amazing rushes, that massive empathy, that something special that really makes MDMA in this authors oppinion one of the most special drugs of all time. [......]

    One things for sure is after getting though 3 grams of MDMA in a week a year ago (when I was a complete idiot with my use) the magic seems have been lost for good for me. Even after a years abstinence
     

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    #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Shambles View Post
    This is precisely the effect it had - and still has - on me. I'm still have (but to a far lesser extent than before) a sense of fragility, insecurity and paranoia... Along with a very healthy dose of filth and grime of the very best sort, naturally

    The realisation of the "right to exist," as you put it was a big part of it for me too, as was the empathy and connection with every other person - and all other living (and often non-living) beings. Previously I was distant, dislocated, pseudo-aloof and alienated from virtually everybody. Cannabis helped some but, shortly afterwards, I discovered MDMA (and at least as - and possibly even more importantly - LSD) and it changed everything.

    That's not to say there were no negative consequences initially. Once those barriers were broken I was still very prone to pretty extreme moodswings and deep depressions and periods of mania and borderline psychosis (not specifically related to drug use - lifelong issues) but they lessened over time with repeated use.

    Once I exorcised (or drugged into submission) most of my demons with heroin (and booze, other assorted downers and stims), I returned to the MDMA/psychedelic fold and am improving in every possible way with every passing day. Even my doctors, social workers and drugs counsellors agree

    If anything, I find MDMA/psyche use is actually becoming more magical over the years rather than less. The initial changes were an enormous kickstart, but the changes become deeper and more ingrained each time

    This is practically my life story!

    Years of smoking dope as a teenageer isolated me, eventually from all my friends, and I was a loner and just smoked weed and did coke.

    Then I did MDMA, and BLAM! Knocked me instantly out of my stoned stupour! Phoned up all my old mates, made friends, discovered mephedrone, MDPV, all of which have enabled me to reconnect with all my old friends and become a much happier person. I'm amazingly social now, and my life is getting better and better. I've learnt now not to get carried away with using it, as its efefcts diminish. But i can safely say that MDMA saved my social life, and probably my life in general.

    to MDMA and to everyone in general

     

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    #17
    Bluelighter Ceres's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shambles View Post
    That's not to say there were no negative consequences initially.
    What I found was that it allowed me to flourish in many ways, the first couple of doses really changed my perspective on life and myself, but paradoxically after a lifetime as a shy, scared, paranoid, dysfunctional misanthropic mess, to suddenly be transformed into a confident, socially promiscuous ostensibly "normal" guy just created a whole new set of problems. I was (and still am) totally unequipped to be that kind of person, and once the MDMA wore off I was regularly horrified at my behaviour.

    I stopped using it really because I was starting to get really sinister feelings about the whole thing, I think these are mostly due to the situations I was taking it in and the people I was with, but I have real qualms about taking MDMA again.
     

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    #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Ceres View Post
    I stopped using it really because I was starting to get really sinister feelings about the whole thing, I think these are mostly due to the situations I was taking it in and the people I was with, but I have real qualms about taking MDMA again.

    The thing is you have to act on what you learn from it. Its powers of self introspection give your the stark truth about yourself, which can be very scary when your not on it, as you dont have the empathogenic perspective to look at your problems. Thats why MDMA therapy is, helps people actually work on what they find out, instead of just seeing the light but sobering up and then avoiding it.
     

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    #19
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    I don't remember ever losing the buzz, but I did kind of tire of it after caning it too much for a few months. Some of the times in those first couple of months were simpy magical, it opened my mind up to a lot of things and I feel I came out of it a much improved person.
     

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    #20
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    I think it is all about mindset. Maybe some people come to the point when they have gotten all they can "mentally" from the drug. Maybe some people always find ways to tune in again.

    I remember someone describing mdma as a one time large bank deposit. You can deposit 100K (but you can never deposit any more cash) and take it all out in one week, one month, one year. You can be clever and take out little bits of cash now and again and let the interest rate you get make up for the cash withdrawals and maintain that 100K. That is the approach that I have followed.
     

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    #21
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    Take GBL with it. See what that does for your magic.
     

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    #22
    I've been doin MDMA and pills for about 5years now and never lost the magic! Infact i find it even more special now because i know alot more about what im taking. Try not to over do it is the thing. Like my tolerance is probably stupidly high, but i dont do it that often.. I can see maybe doing it both nights every weekend for a while it might lose its magic. But even last year when there was more good crystal MDMA and real pills about was doing it every weekend for most of the year and its never lost its magic for me. Guess different people react differently tho.
     

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    #23
    I just think that it's one of the very few things as an adult that truly opens your eyes in a way that makes you think "fuck! You mean I can feel like this every time i take one of these????!!!!!"
    The fact is you can't feel like that everytime you take them though because the effects lessen over time, nothing can re-create that magical feeling from the first few times. Even after year long breaks, completely new settings, exciting new times with friends who were about to embark on the drug experience for the first time, good quality pills, a night of great atmosphere and excellent music I found myself thinking 'hmmmmm this isn't very great'.

    The effects mdma has on me now is very different to the effect it used to have, in fact almost quite the opposite. It's not just that I'm more used to it, now when I take it I'm sapped off all energy, want to sit down and shut everyone out, I feel like just going to sleep and become anti social and don't want to do anything, a total change from the dancing, energetic, loving lunatic who'ld be buzzing around talking to everyone all night.

    MDMA is about as far from "plastic" and "unreal" as a drug can be. Feels completely natural - like the piece of me that is missing. Has made huge changes in my life, self-image and relations with others - extremely long-lasting and positive changes. Guess I perceive it in a good way so never lost the "magic" and never will
    It's pretty plastic and unreal IMO. You say it's natural but it's not natural, if it were you'ld be saying and doing those things you say / do on MDMA all the time.

    Take more (good) MDMA
    Really annoys me when people try and claim the reason the experience isn't good is because the MDMA isn't good stuff. Bullshit that is. It's nothing to do with the potency or purity of the drugs, it still can get me majorly fucked (and if all you want is to be mashed then you're on to a winner) but it doesn't produce the major empathy, loved up feelings, the open ness, the euphoria, the rushes or the tingles like it used to if at all. I just feel fucked in the head and a bit confused and gurn a lot whenever I take it now.

    What I found was that it allowed me to flourish in many ways, the first couple of doses really changed my perspective on life and myself, but paradoxically after a lifetime as a shy, scared, paranoid, dysfunctional misanthropic mess, to suddenly be transformed into a confident, socially promiscuous ostensibly "normal" guy
    MDMA / Pills / Drugs seemed to do the opposite for me. I used to go out (I was drunk so this may have played a part) and have a great time, was totally confident, never worried about what people would think of me, was quite sure of myself and all sorts of other good things but then I started doing pills and at first it was amazing then slowly but surely I lost all the good feelings from MDMA and all my confidence, self assurance etc crept away from me. Once I stopped the drugs (but kept drinking) this confidence etc never returned and it's never been seen since. Even when out and drunk now I'll not go up and chat to randoms, chat up women, hit the dancefloor and dance like an idiot etc like I used to pre drug era. Drugs changed things quite a bit (might not just have been to do with drugs but more myself, who can really tell) and I've never seen a reemergance of that part of myself.

    feel I came out of it a much improved person.
    I unfortunately never felt like MDMA changed me or made me a better person or benefited my in anyway, it just caused me nothing but problems. Nothing overly major that's had a dramatic experience on my life but nothing truely positive has came from it either which is a shame. Don't regret trying the drug those first few experiences were magical and out of this world but I regret keeping on using it and not being that educated about it / respecting it.

    So in conclusion yes you do lose the magic of MDMA for definite. I think folk who say they haven't are kidding themselves or forgetting just how magical those first times were. Or maybe even there first times weren't actually that special, maybe they just got a bit mashed and it felt quite good and they thought that was it but for me it was a total mind blowing eye opener, fucking fantastic now it's dissapointing and a waste of time.
     

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    #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Ceres View Post
    I 100% agree with this, it felt as though all the grime and filth, insecurity and paranoia that had swamped my fragile teenage ego over the years had suddenly been washed away, and for the firs time in my life I realised I had as much right to exist as anyone else, and furthermore, for the first time I felt a sense of connection and empathy with my fellow humans, and more specifically my friends, instead of simply fearing them.

    I realise everyone has different experiences but for me and the context I used MDMA in, it was incredibly useful as a way to deal with what I would call post-traumatic stress. Context is everything.
    Yes of course it was like that at first. I am talking about the effects after like 4 years of constant use

    I would say I am less alienated now than I was before using but still very much so from the normal person as so much of my life has been living in a small drugs bubble, based around getting high and living in a world that doesn't exist. I am much more confident than I was but still it is very low, but that could be down to growing up and not being 14 as much as it has been for drugs. Pills and base gave me the best times in my life don't get me wrong, but undoubtably have contributed to many of my problems.

    Like Spade says the effects are very much just get me mashed now, none of the love, oneness or empathy etc that there was at first. Although I havn't used in a long time so who knows I guess.
    Last edited by Aros2k; 05-04-2009 at 23:42.
     

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    #25
    Bluelighter Ceres's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aros2k View Post
    Yes of course it was like that at first. I am talking about the effects after like 4 years of constant use
    I never used it for 4 years constantly, it was a once or twice a month thing for about a year and then sporadically once in a blue moon afterwards.

    Oviously using it for 4 years every weekend it's going to get boring and seem fake and "plastic". If you get to the point where the effects of the drug that most people desire, such as empathy, euphoria, increased appreciation of music and so on feel fake and plastic, then what are you still taking MDMA for?

    I know it's a "fake" experience produced by a chemical, but I chose to take it a few times because that "fake" experience taught me valuable lessons about how to be happy, altered my appreciation of music forever etc. That "fake" experience just becomes less usefull, and loses its novelty over time.
     

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