Bupe helping precipitated withdrawal

[ThaKid85]

it has been about 60 hours since my last dose of methadone and about 48 since i induced precipitated withdrawal. My question is, now that im obviously over the acute stage of pwd, and its been 40 hours since the acute part ended, should i start to take suboxone again till i feel some releif? i took 4 mg today but still feel terrible and deffinately think this will be night three with no sleep. I am afraid that if i take to large of a dose of suboxone that it will have a more antagonist effect which i deff dont want. please reply, some have said DO NOT take more suboxone, others say to take what you need in small increments to feel ok. please answer as soon as you can ill be waiting.

 

[pi^]

wowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww

precip[pated WDs are jt WORRRSTTTTT

i tryed putting a post up b4 but i simply couldnt sit still..

all i kept thinking was "ive beeen thru worse"....bad trips , comedowns, but fuck THAT WAS the WORST besdidse bad trip

ya they are pretty terrible. since there is like no information on this i think ill let you guys know my experience. i used loperamide like every for 2+months. i am very hooked. and i wanted to get high every time. i was taking about 216 a day yes thats 432mg of lope or whatever. Well i finally got on sub and thought finally a way out of this hell. well not im not so sure. nothing seems to make sense with loperamide. well anyways i took the suboxone (just a tiny bit) about like 36 hours after last dose of loperamide. precipitate w/d hell. actually it wasnt really hell that time it just sucked. then i took more sub (a more substantial amount prolly 3 mg snorted) then came the w/d hell. holy fuck. just pure panic. it was really weird cuz my head still felt all cloudy and not clear like other precipitate w/d. okay i did that again lol like 48 hours after last dose and that was the worst of all. daaaaaaamn (yes i know i dont learn) well that was pure terror. strangely it went away sooner though so thats nice. only like 15 min and feeling 95% better. okay here is my points:

if loperamide is working soo sooo much more peripherally.. wouldnt you think 100% of the CNS effects would be blocked by the bupe/nalaxone? that only makes sense. if only say 1/100 of the dose is working centrally, that bupe would be displacing the CNS shit like crazy where as it would have trouble displacing the peripheral effects because remember receptor occupancy= affinity * conentration. or something like that i think you should get my point. you take enough of anything it will have a higher affinity per say. okay thats one issua

My other point is im pretty sure loperamide has a super high affinity, maybe even high as bupe. this is all very confusing because u have to take into consideration the dose of the loperamide is very high, but centrally the dose isnt that high, otherwise you would be dead so thats confusing.anyways im about +56 hours after last dose of lope and 8 hours since my sub dose. i feel okay. i feel normal maybe slight slight RLS and cold/hotflashes. so like very slight w/d. i just took 72 mg of loperamide.... yes i know ill never learn. i honestly hope it does absolutely nothing. but i have this really bad feeling im gonna get feeling pretty decent. I am very worried about this because wth is the point of taking suboxone if i can just go take lope and get high. thats the whole reason i wanted to get on the sub because i know that ill get weak and go to the store and pick up lope if i know i will get high. ugh. i really really really hope that i dont get high at all. other ppl have said that the lope actually will break through the bupe so im thinking its going to work and then im stuck in this spiral again. oh well. if i get a little more will power atleast ill have the sub and that will be much easier to get then to taper off the lope, because its impossible for me to have something that could get me high and not take it all.

 

[pi^]

I was taking 80 mgs of methadone a day for two years, took my last 40mg dose in the morning and decided 12 hours later i was withdrawing and remembered the good feeling buprenorphine used to give me. The addict in me thought take the suboxone now and youll feel warm and sleep greaat. The smart person in me read the pharmacists suboxone pamphlet and found it to be unclear on precipated wds. I was under the impression it was the naloxone if injected that would bring on this effect. well the addict won and i took 6mgs of suboxone at once. i was thrown almost instantly into full blown wd and i could feel the battle between the methadone and bup in my brain i swear to you. over the night i figured i could push through with more suboxone films and took a total dose including the previous dose of 16 mgs suboxone. It has been 15 hours now or so and im still withdrawing and it sucks. i am tempted to consume yet more of my studpidly expensive suboxone but i feel stable enough now to just ride it out and look foward to my first good dose of bup and to SLEEP!! The point is, as the methadone was knocked off my opioid receptors naturally, you feel the oppposite of good, but once i took enough suboxone to fully overwhelm the methadone on my receptors i stabilized. so im almost happy this happened because now i can dose suboxone without pwds as opposed to waiting the 48 to 72 hours i was supposed to wait.

dont be so sure. i think it really depends on the drug ur talking about but if you read my last post, ull see that i took bupe/nalaxone 8 hours after the first terrible experience i had another terrible experience. i think that was because the lope was still kicking though and you dont have to worry about that cuz the methadone is completely off ur receptors(i think at least)

 

[pi^]

well in the name of stupidity or science, i took 144 more. it makes absolutely no sense to me that this lope could actually break through the buprenorphine dose in the CNS, but ppl claim that it works and im getting blurred vision so thats a sign the lope is kicking in, but thats the peripheral effects. i have a feeling i just took 216 lope for nothing but some shitty side effects, but i guess ill find out. I dont know what the hell im doing, why did i even take sub lol... well i guess i took it cuz i thought its the only way off the lope. but if i can get high on the lope even if i take sub i guess there is no reason for the sub. im hoping i dont get high i guess. obviously a part of me would like to get high though.i donno it broke the first effects pretty damn well though ill keep updating.

 

[Junkie4Life]

I was on a H run for few good months.
Last time I used was 13?hours ago, started feeling sick so I decided to shoot up lil less than 2MG of Suboxone (just crush add cold water & draw) I have done that before many times but with more time off H. So i shot it up, the first 45sec were heaven then I went into precipitated withdrawal for the first time of my life! It was hell! What got me out of it and got me straight, was doing H, more than double of what i usually do! That's my experience!

Next time, MUST WAIT at least 36 hrs before even thinking about taking Suboxone!

 

[Mr.Scagnattie]

I was on a H run for few good months.
Last time I used was 13?hours ago, started feeling sick so I decided to shoot up lil less than 2MG of Suboxone (just crush add cold water & draw) I have done that before many times but with more time off H. So i shot it up, the first 45sec were heaven then I went into precipitated withdrawal for the first time of my life! It was hell! What got me out of it and got me straight, was doing H, more than double of what i usually do! That's my experience!

Next time, MUST WAIT at least 36 hrs before even thinking about taking Suboxone!

IV'ing suboxone, especially that much, after only 13 hours is probably the worst idea ever. Hah. There was no way you weren't going to get PW's. When switching to suboxone, the best way to avoid PW's is to first not IV it, then, dose very slowly, titrating up.

 

[sandblaster91]

So yesterday I had my first experience with precipitated withdrawals. I WANTED TO END MY LIFE!!!!!!

So I am in methadone treatment for opiate dependence. Yesterday I decided that I was coming down a little to hard from my methadone, I take 75 mgs per day every morning. So I decided to get a subutext and took it. Not knowing about the precipitated withdrawals because before I got into methadone treatment I would just take buprenorphine whenever I could not find anything and it has always done good for me. This time was different. After about 45 mins post taking the subutext I started feeling very groggy and very fatigued. I was very confused at this point and thought I was just getting sick or coming down with something. Then at about an hour and a half post taking the sub I was feeling so terrible that I was calling every drug dealer known to man just to try to feel better. I had just got done looking up taking subs after methadone on the internet and seen the horrors that everyone else had gone through and knew at this point I was doomed. This is literally the worst w/d's I had ever went through and I've had my share of the rough w/d's. After searching many options and putting out the drug beacon no one was coming through and at that point I was contemplating going to the ER or just ending it right then and there. I was finally just forced to lay down and sleep through this terrible dilemma that I had accidentally put myself in. I woke up the next morning feeling completely fine except for the fact that my brain is actually sore from the pounding it took all night long. Which I have never had my brain actually be sore so I can only relate it too what your muscles feel like the next day after a good workout.

So the lesson learned here is........ DO NOT TAKE BUPRENORPHINE IF YOU ARE ON METHADONE TREATMENT. YOU WILL WALK THE THROUGH THE GATES OF HELL AND BACK FOR 8 HOURS IF YOU DO!! So just wanted to share this experience so bad that I actually made an account on here and this is my first post. Yes this experience was that life altering. But if you do find yourself in the predicament. Just try to relax as much as possible, don't scour the internet and read everyones experience of this because it will only make you feel as if you are going to die, and just try to go to bed for 8-12 hours and you should be ok for the most part.

 

[Mr.Scagnattie]

^^

How did you not know bupe would cause PW's if taken with an opiate in your system? That's why it's important to at least do some basic research about the drugs you're going to consume..

 

[Barchie]

Methadone and suboxone are EVIL

I've been taking methadone for about 5 years now for back problems (severe foraminal stenosis caused by being a competitive gymnast from age 6 to 21, growing years. I fucked my back). I'm 50 now and the methadone has been giving me heart palpitations and making menopausal hot flashes almost unbearable. My doctor has weaned me down from 80mg a day to 40mg a day without any counseling. I didn't even know my dose had been cut until I picked up my script from the pharmacy. When I confronted him last visit he brushed me off saying that was the nurse's responsibility. Hindsight, I've should have pushed the matter. DUH. A did a little research on suboxone, thought that 1 hour of precipitated withdrawal would be tolerable and I could at least get the methadone off my receptors. I'm an idiot. Advice - DON'T EVER DO THIS, ANYONE.
I stayed off the methadone for 48 hours and was in what now seems like mild w/d but I felt pretty bad. So I took 8mg suboxone sublingual (I've never shot anything in my life). In about a 1/2 hour I felt disorientated, fuzzy headed and weak and pouring sweat. In an hour the gates of hell swallowed me whole, I can describe symptoms but there aren't words that can accurately describe the torture. Extreme vomiting and diarrhea. I counted the minutes, literally, for an hour. Two hours later, not even a bit better. I sweated it out, in about 8 hours I was able to fall asleep for 45 minutes so I figured the worst was over. I felt like shit but I waited 24 hours, and tried another 4mg of suboxone. I thought I was out of danger and it would make me feel better. NOT. I was immediately thrown in pw/d's again. I read that if you take enough suboxone it can fill enough receptors so you feel better. I'm not proud of this but I was desperate. I took a total of 24mg of suboxone in a half hour praying it would help. It made the pw/d's from the night before feel like child's play. I have never in my life felt like that. If I had had a means to kill myself, I would have. And I'm a usually loving upbeat happy person and I would NEVER do something like that to my family or my pets. I waited an hour, two hours, three hours, minute by minute. I felt worse and worse and worse. I was screaming for help, something I would never usually do, I'm pretty strong. I couldn't stay in bed for more than 10 seconds and I tried, believe me. I couldn't walk anywhere, my legs wouldn't work. I fell a couple of times trying to get up. Even though I was sweating, the sweat felt like burning ice scalding my skin and I could not get warm, even in 80 degree Florida. My hands and feet were completely numb, felt like frostbite. I dialed 91 at least a dozen time, hanging up before the final "1". My 17yo daughter came home unexpectedly and immediately called my 26yo daughter who lives nearby. She got here and immediately called an ambulance. I scared the absolute shit out of my daughters.The hospital gave me a shot of valium right away. At least I stopped screaming. I was honest with them, told them I didn't want to die and that I had done something really stupid. 8 hours later and I was still in precipitated withdrawal. 3 shots of valium and 2 doses of clonodine and I was finally able to be lucid. They sent me home which of course in hospital standards took hours. My daughter filled scripts for clonodine and valium. It was after midnight by the time she got back. I double dosed both and FINALLY fell asleep for about 3 hours. My sweet sweet daughter made ramen noodles and a bowl of crackers for me. And my favorite - diet coke. At 4am. I'm so lucky. Although I couldn't eat it. I nibbled crackers and sipped some coke. It's now 8 pm. I still feel very weak and shitty and I still can't eat. Fortunately, I could stand to lose a few pounds, menopause caused me to gain about 40. But, and I repeat, DO NOT DO THIS. It's better to be fat.
In short, no matter what anyone else posts, you know your body better than anybody and we're all different. Methadone sticks in your receptors even though you don't feel it. Better to wean to something else before trying suboxone. I've gone through more than SIXTEEN 16 hours of acute precipitated withdrawal. My whole body is sore from it and I'm still feeling w/d but this is ice cream compared to precipitated. This was a life changing experience. I keep wondering if I did something for karma to come back and kick my ass but I'm coming up short. Before I did this, I read a few posts that pw/d lasts for about an hour. One hour my ass. Do not try suboxone if you're on methadone. Not worth the gamble.
I'm a fairly normal upper-middle class woman who knows next to nothing about street drugs. The worst I've done is get the suboxone from a friend. Next time I see my doc I'm telling him what I did and what happened. I'll post it here if anyone cares. And now my back hurts like hell too!

 

[BlueHues]

^That's a great story that I'm sure a lot of us can completely relate to!

Welcome to BL...

Blue

 

[Barchie]

Thanks for the welcome! I've read tons of precipitated withdrawal stories here and it helps tremendously. Two things though- One is I can't believe anybody would go through this more than once, like that post that says he's done it four times and will not do five. ONCE is more than enough for me! Secondly, I haven't read anybody going through acute precipitated withdrawal for 16 hours, maybe they just didn't add it up. That 16 hours felt like 16 years. I will never do this again, I'd rather give birth every day for the rest of my life. Long term methadone use and suboxone really isn't a good mix. I hope my story helps at least one person.
I would rather have my finger and toenails pulled out one by one than go through precipitated withdrawal from methadone. I'm serious.

 

[Mr.Scagnattie]

^^

Nobody wants and tries to go through PW's multiple times.. it's something that can be unpredictable at times and just happen, even when attempting to avoid it. It's unavoidable when using antagonists, even partial ones like bupe.

 

[Barchie]

yeah, i can't imagine anyone doing that on purpose. I suppose it could be unpredictable, escpecially when using different drugs. I'm pretty naive at this whole thing but I know for certain that I will never take bupe again when I'm trying to get off methadone. NEVER. That was a hell I can't describe. I'm petrified of it happening again. I thought I was strong but maybe I'm just a wuss afterall!

 

[BlueHues]

^Yeah, you have to be extremely careful going from methadonen to bupe. You have to be in full withdrawal, and that can take 3-4 days with methadone. And even then, you still might feel shitty for a few days. Bupe works well once you manage to stabilize, but getting of it is just as hard as anything else.

 

[Mr.Scagnattie]

Yeah the past few tries getting back on bupe, really turned me off to it. It worked great for me for a while, but I don't have time to deal with all the fucking timing issues, careful induction practices to avoid PW's, still getting them anyway, or just generally feeling like shit for days during the transition.

I wish it would just work for for me like it used to, because I would have rather stayed with the suboxone, but it doesn't, and it took me a while and a lot of pain trying to get back on it, to just accept that. I'll take methadone any day of the week right now. Of course, that is for me and my situation. Many people I wouldn't suggest it for and bupe is great. It was just so much easier not having to worry with the methadone.. you take it, it works, you don't have to wait and do all this shit, and it deals with my cravings even better than bupe did when it was working well for me.

 

[missmeyet?]

Barchie's story sounds like the way I experience withdrawals (not PWs, just good ole WDs)..so I was wondering when Sandblaster said he laid down and was so miserable he just slept through the rest of it...no way I can be still long enough for sleep to even cross my mind when I am in WDs much less actually be able to close my eyes and sleep for several hours. I guess we just have to remember everyones experience is much, much different and for each of us, perception is reality.

 

[Mr.Scagnattie]

^^

Yeah I don't know many people that can sleep, even a wink, in withdrawal. I envy anyone that can. You're very lucky if you can even sleep a few hours away in withdrawal. I don't get even 5 minutes of sleep for the first week. Then from there, maybe I'll get an hour or so a night, getting better every week. It is one of, if not the worst, aspect of withdrawal to me.

 

[Chinese Smack]

Accidental Precipitated Withdrawal

I hadn't planned precipitated Withdrawal. I had been taking 600mg Sevredol (morphine rapid release) tablets daily in two stages. My last dose was 3:00pm and by next morning I was excperiencing mild withdrawal--lethegy, unease, etc no fireworks. By 3:00 pm a still felt in this mild withdrawal missus fireworks or any of the heavy stuff like bowl hugging vomiting etc but I felt bad enough to snort 4 mg bup and then after a short while I put an 8 mg bup under my tongue. And then the fireworks started and I had a WD show like I have not had in years. The works. Luckily I was in a 5 star hotel in China and surrounded by every comfort but when all you want is the coolness of the toilet bowl on your face and the strength to switch position and get your anus up ontop of the bowl the surroundings didn't matter. It helped that my howls and retcgings probably did not reach outside my suite or if they did they would have been ignored. After what seemed four or five hours the retching subsided and I was suddenly aware that I felt marginally better and I was able to continue in that funny half sleep and dreamy unreality of post heavy WD. By 1:00 I felt confident enough to attempt some more bups. I took another 18 mgs in all and felt well enough to take a walk round the block while room service came in. Now it is next day 11:00 22 hours later and I have snorted another 4mg bup. I hate bups but in the past they have done the trick. Why did they send me into precipitated WD even though I waited a good 24 hours.
Advice and help please

 

[jeng1128]

I have to agree dope will help. It won't get u "high" but u won't want to shoot yourself in the head. And do NOT take more subs. My stupid bf (who should know better bc he has been on subs for 5 years) had to go off them for a couple months. Because we got sideswiped by a tractor trailer, really, really bad accident. I shattered my ankle on one side(tibia) & the other side broke (fibia) poking right out of my UGGS. Anyways my bf got hurt bad too(5 broken ribs, stage 4 torn ligaments in his shoulder & a dislocated collar bone.) That's what sucks about subs(I was going down on my Methadone @ the time-28mgs so after surgery of 2 plates, 18 screws & a pin it hurt like he'll but at least I could take painkillers. He had to wait 2 days for ANY pain relief. They had to taleg him off subs for 3 months, so he could get pain control. If you really get hurt it sucks. Anyways he went back on the subs 3 weeks ago & observed a bundle in one shot(u know he needed dope for pain relief(lol) & took two subs. Like right after he got high. 30 mins later. He started the PWDS & took 7 more subs(not kidding,& he's no novice trust me.) Tried to tell him wouldn't listen. At 3am he was on the floor crying it was horrid. So he called his dealer we drove (well I drove, he was in no condition to & this was with a cast on my right leg.) But when he did the dope he didn't get high but finally managed to fall asleep. Dope helps.

 

[Mr.Scagnattie]

^^^

Yeah, it will just usually take away the withdrawals, not get you high. But at that point, taking away the withdrawals is a high in itself, because you felt so horrible before.