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Naloxone and buprenorphine solubility/separation

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manhatred

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I'm trying to find a solvent or procedure that will separate buprenorphine HCl and naloxone HCl. Searching bluelight turned up threads like these, which didn't seem to come to any useful conclusions. I compiled a table of solubility data for each compound in various solvents, which I will post here if I can figure out a way to make it look decent. However, I couldn't really find anything on how changes in temperature affect the solubility of either compound. And nothing I've seen so far really jumps out at me as an especially simple way of doing this. Does anyone have any experience in this area or even just ideas? Some type of kitchen chromatography perhaps?

Hopefully this post isn't against the rules. Thanks.
 
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What are the pka's for the two? You may have to adjust pH to change solubility.
 
remove Naloxone from suboxone

What about bupe being alcohol soluble? If you dissolve a crushed tab in isoprop and the filter carefully, allow alcohol to evap & add hot H2O to residue. Would this work? If naloxone is not dissolved in alcohol this might prove effective.l
 
pK'a values are 8.24 and 10 for the ammonium and phenol groups, respectively.
 
Is the purpose of this thread for dosing ultra-low-dose naloxone to prevent development of tolerance to mu opioid agonists?

If you're using suboxone as a source, there should be so little buprenorphine in your solution when you dissolve the pill and measure out a 4 microgram dose of naloxone solution that it won't have any effect on you. The naloxone will though.
 
i wish someone could figure this out. i would like to no also. there has to be a way to pull the naloxone out of anything. it is in talwin also ( pentazocine ) talwin nx anyway , if i could remove the naloxone it might be ok but it doesnt help the way it is. it doesnt help my pain at all like suboxone does . someone figure out how to do this and please let me no..ty
 
Background​

I've used heroin for half a year, always IV (why waste?). Usually I dose 1/8 gram per day in 2 or 3 shots, sometimes up to 1/4 gram. Now that I'm experienced, I use for about 1 or 2 weeks and then take 2 or 3 weeks off. It's simply not worth it once my tolerance gets too high.

I also study organic chemistry (and I do well, so I'm not some retard you shouldn't listen to).

When my parents discovered my use, they sought professional help, which landed me a Suboxone prescription.

Shooting Subs​
You should do it this way​

I have 3 friends who use isopropyl alcohol (rubbing alcohol) to separate the buprenorphine from the rest of the pill. Finely ground the pill in a spoon, add isopropyl alcohol (recommend above 70% purity, they use 99%), mix thoroughly (plunger works well), pull alcohol solution through a cotton (cigarette filter or cotton swab. Take a small piece and roll it tightly into a little cotton ball, maybe 3 mm diameter) into a syringe, squirt into another spoon, and allow the alcohol to evaporate (expedite with a stream of air or heat). The bupe residue will be left (barely visible) on the spoon, add warm water, mix (rub the plunger on the spoon's surface because the bupe will be stuck to it), pull into syringe through a cotton (cotton may not be necessary), and blast away. The bupe solution appears slightly white in the syringe.

You shouldn't do it this way​

I don't have isopropyl alcohol.

Ground up the pill in a spoon, add ice cold water (water was from a purifier in my fridge and added ice), mix, pull through cotton into syringe (orange coloration), and squirt into mouth. Then heat up some water until it's almost boiling, add it to the spoon, pull through cotton (solution still had an orange coloration, but not as bad), and blast away.

Naloxone is more water soluble than buprenorphine, and solubility is proportional to temperature. The cold water should dissolve the naloxone, leaving the bupe behind to dissolve in the warm water. The cold water solution probably still had some bupe in it, so might as well take it sublingually.

I tried the second method with a quarter of an 8 mg pill. About 1 minute in my stomach felt unusual in a bad way. 5 minutes in the warm flush started to slowly come over me. After 10 minutes I felt boss and started writing this. Now it's 30 minutes in, and the intensity is persisting. Awesome. My friends who did it with alcohol said that it lasted all day. This makes me happy. The feeling 10-30 minutes in (and counting) is similar to 1 or 2 hours after taking 4 mg Suboxone sublingually. Although dope and bupe don't feel the same, my level of fucked up is like 2 minutes after blasting 0.05 or 0.1 grams (a 10 or 15 sac) of street purity dope. Yeah, dope sucks around here.

Have fun and remember that drugs are never worth it and always a waste of time!
 
Here's how I do it: throw the pill in a cup, add water, mix, filter, shoot. Works every time!
 
^^ He he, very true. Thats the way I do it. But Suboxone gives me headaches bur the Sub-program in my city wont change to Subutex or Buprenex..
 
So why do we want to separate bupe and naloxone? I find it funny that the people prescribing the lovely little orange tabs have a total lack of understanding of them. They believe the drug holds certain characteristics, beliefs the drug companies use as major selling points that are not true. First off let me say sub's are an acquired taste. Once you get past the stage of trying to function on short lasting agonist opiates (no margin for error, wake up for work with nothin=shitty day) and actually give the long leisurely opi's a fair chance you slowly learn all kinds of characteristics. Most doc's believe you cannot take a suboxone and IV it because it will put you in precipitated withdrawls because of the anti-IV'ing naloxone. The bupe is going to be the culprit, it will give you wd's if your on agonist opi's but even then the horrible feeling lasts for like 20 mins and then your brain is adjusted to the bupe and your fine. If your body is adjusted the subs you can IV it with the naloxone and the bupe will overpower it. I have found it is best to not separate the two bc the long duration of effect makes naloxone your friend. It acts by quickly clearing out some of the bupe. Before you can feel the wd's the fresh bupe scoots in and the feeling is a little more emphasized bc the naloxone kinda wiped your slate clean a bit. Not on topic but still relevant is a little discovery I made. Taking addy's in the morning jump starts the body out of the opiate stupor and if you wait till your coming down from the addys and just feel a little tweaked a dose of sub will give you a really nice melt (not an exact science) comparable or even better than even dope. Like I said, you gotta experiment a little to get it right but when you do its worth it. I do want to end on a serious note tho. I have been doing subs for a loooonnnnggg time and its the worst thing in the world to come off of. I think its worse than methadone by far bc it will give you wd's that send you crying back to opiates. I mean pain that is unreal and its the length that gets you. It can get worse everyday all the way to like day 15 and thats with tapering down to less than a quarter of an 8mg tab/day. The physical pain is nothing to what lay just after. Mental wd's that will have you crying for no reason and it keeps on going like the energizer bunny. I have so much more knowledge on subs alone that I paid a heavy price for. I might have crossed a bridge that I cant get back over and I have done every form of opiate way beyond the max and this is the one that seemed so lovely but is one cold hard bitch.

happy hunting comrades~
 
It's a common myth, which doctors do not want to dispel, because it suits their purposes to let junkies believe they cannot inject suboxone.
 
Same Boat

I have been recently trying to taper an found that, OH LOOK! The pharmaceutical industry has lied in odrer to bring out a drug which is un-patented to make money. They say the withdrawals are "less severe" because of "partial agonism" and so since it only partially agonizes they are drawing the conclusion that: An agonist of less binding affinity will produce withdrawal symptoms less than that of an whole agaonist. This is the same backwords logic that lead people to believe antipsychotics are antagonists when they are, in fact, REVERSE AGONISTS, and basically do to you what happens in opiate WD. I am a pre-medicine student, and thanks to bupe i have my second chance at my degree. I am nearly done. Compiling numerous different research data from several different "angles" of understanding (angles meaning i dont just look at bupe studies but literally anything related and also personal experience), that pretty much what the doctors say is strait out of your bupe book dispensed in the box with the SUB-LINGUAL films. I can honestly say that my resaerch+experience with bupe has shown me, and i know most of you know this, that the doc really does not know much and just wants his/her money like the "pharmers". The original post is correct, in that, bupe will readily dissolve in most alcohol compounds, methyl alcohol being the best due to where the OH molecule sits in relation to the beta/alpha carbons. Also both Naloxone and bupe are pretty much just as soluble in water as the next, with nal. being slightly lower, which is why, again, the first post was correct in saying the second method without alcohol will not work. From most of the studies I have read none can get total conclusive evidence on solubility ranges of bupe vs naloxone and literally the info I have gethered using my school books, MANY research studies, my general knowledge of organic/BIOChem to put the research together, and personal experience show basically the same as the studies. In conclusions of most of the studies they very very basically say "To each is own"; and through talks with friends on it and how they do it has also led me to my, same, conclusion as of yet. I have a solubility table in my notes from several different sources and each says something different, i literaly could not compile them together into one due to disparity. I, personally, take 16 mg once per day sublingually and have found that rubbing just a tad bit of isopropyl under my tongue or ethanol (using a q-tip) immediately before i place the film under my tongue at the base helps them to dissolve probably, 10% faster, so not much difference, but that 10% takes about a half an hour of the total time i keep my saliva without swallowing of, at least, an hour just to make sure i get it all, then, in increments of probably 1/2 a ml (guess) at a time, swallow the remainder of the saliva, then i do not eat/drink for at least 15 mins. One other thing, in dabbing the alcohol under my tongue, i have noticed less of the crappy orange residue we all hate soo much. I do not condone the use of isopropyl alcohol in any case except under the control of someone who is experienced and had the physiology/chemistry background to know how to use it, as it IS dangerous. Basically, with any route of administration everybody has different reactions, so literally you can gather all the info you want, you wont know until you try. SWIM catches a buzz off a snort of 6-8 mg subutex after a 24 hour dry out period, whereas SWIM has friends who say they get wrecked off of a mere 2 mg insufflated. The same goes for the IV or sublingual ROM. The individual disparity of this drug from individual to the next is grandeur, to say the least. Just be careful and be as informed as possible. This drug is, in my opinion, worse to WD from than H simply because of the duration. I know from my education, pharms are all about money and i was very reluctant to start a bupe regimen but finally gave in after about 6 years of using then WDs, then using again then WDs again(cant keep up good grades for med school like that). I gave an honest try to the twelve big steps and "Worked" the program hard and it just didnt "Work" for me. The bupe helps my depression and anxiety and i have been opiate free for almost 6 months now. Sorry if i got slightly off topic i was just trying to cover all that was said in this discussion to the best of my ability...Finals week, so I gotta get back to studying, I have not yet posted since being a member and for some reason felt the need to on this one. Hopefully this was helpful.----thanks Jwills
 
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