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Opioids mixing methadone with fentanyl??

Facts

So I seem like a frustrated guy do I?

What are you, a shrink or something?

LMFAO!

People just need to get there facts straight before they go posting shit they no nothing about!

well I was close bro, were talking about Methadone and how it workscombined with other meds, thats all.
 
I've never seen much point in the term semi synthetic. Something semi synthetic, in this context, is simply synthetic but with the additional point that it was synthesized directly from a naturally occurring compound. It still *is* synthetic :\

it differentiates between different opiates. there are the similar natural opiates morphine/codeine. then there are a wide variety of also similar semi synthetics. and then there are synthetic opioids which have totally different structures

something interesting i've noticed is posts farther in the past on bluelight show much more ignorance and jump to conclusions (not talking about amberthefrog, but about the OP and posts in general). as if bluelight is collectively evolving
 
No it just blocks everything and everything there is? If thats not an antagonist I don't know what is?

Well, to use the metaphor from the Reckitt-Benckiser Suboxone patient booklet, think of a door with a lock on it.

For opioids, think of agonists and antagonists when it comes to opening that door. An agonist is a key that fits in the lock and opens the door wide open. An antagonist is a key that will fit the lock, but won't open the door. Because it is filling the lock, if an agonist comes along and tries to unlock and open the door, it cannot, because the antagonist is taking up the space in the keyhole.

A receptor antagonist is a type of receptor ligand or drug that does not provoke a biological response itself upon binding to a receptor, but blocks or dampens agonist-mediated responses

When it comes to agonists blocking other agonists, this is due to cross tolerance.

Cross tolerance occurs when a person is dependant on a mu-agonist opioid. Lets say Morphine. The person is taking 100mg Morphine three times a day. Halfway through the day that person comes across 20mg of Oxycodone, and takes it. However, the Oxycodone has no effect. This is not because the Morphine is an antagonist, but because of cross-tolerance. It would take an equi-potent dose of another opioid to have mu-agonist effects (i.e. getting high, miosis, respiratory depression, constipation, sedation/nodding, etc).

If that same person came across say 16mg Hydromorphone, they would most likely feel its effects- because this dose of Hydromorphone is close to or above the tolerance level of the person dependant on Morphine.

This is what happens to people on MMT (Methadone Maintanence Therapy). Due to a high volume of distribution, Methadone has a very long half-life, which increases over time on MMT when high doses and daily administration are involved. The treatment protocol in the United States (and most other nations that use MMT) calls for 2 stages in MMT dose adjustment.

1) Gradually titrate (raise) the Methadone dose until the patient reaches stability (i.e. a single dose keeps them out of withdrawal for a full 24 hours).

2) Raise the Methadone dose to a point where they no longer feel cravings to use other opioids (generally 80mg-120mg+). At these dose levels, cross-tolerance becomes a factor. The Methadone dose is high enough that it would take a very large amount of Heroin or another opioid to go over the top of the cross-tolerance level. Most opioid addicts will not or simply cannot spend several hundred dollars on one high trying to 'breakthrough' their Methadone dose.

There are studies from Holland & Sweden that show some opioids, due to their rapid lipid solubility and high potency, are capable of 'breaking through' cross-tolerant levels of Methadone at lower doses. Trials were conducted using a combination of Hydromorphone & Methadone (Holland) and Dextromoramide & Methadone (Sweden). Dilaudid (Hydromorphone) is often used to treat severe pain in MMT patients hospitalized in the United States.

The ability of Methadone to "block" other opioids for several days without redosing the Methadone is due to its high volume of distribution and thus very long half-life. A person who takes a single dose of Methadone will most likely stop showing it in their urine within 2 - 4 days. An MMT patient who stops taking their Methadone will often test positive for 7- 9 days after their last dose.

It is still cross-tolerance relative to the physiological effects of the particular opioid used.
 
I wouldnt take any other opiate with methadone. If I had fentanyl and methadone I would use one at a time, maybe double up the one your using instead of using both. I believe methadone also will block much effect from the fentanyl.
 
I wouldnt take any other opiate with methadone. If I had fentanyl and methadone I would use one at a time, maybe double up the one your using instead of using both. I believe methadone also will block much effect from the fentanyl.

As noted above, Methadone does not have a magical ability to block any and all opioids at any dose. The cross-tolerance 'blockade effect' generally doesn't start until someone takes at least 60mg-120mg daily. At lower daily doses, an MMT patient wouldn't encounter much trouble getting high on other opioids (in the 20mg-50mg a day range).
 
Do you want to die? Their long half lives and combined CNS effects makes for a scary combination.
 
^ Fentanyl doesn't have a long half-life (well, the patches do last a long time when taken as intended, take many hours to peak, and stay at the peak for a long time, so thats almost like taking a drug with a long half-life), just methadone does. I think thats just as bad - mixing something with an incredibly long half-life and something so potent with such a short half-life (which may lead to frequent redosing). Getting the dose 'just right' could be very difficult and/or dangerous to find.
 

MY best friend and I are on methadone daily & we just chewed up a fentanyl patch (25mgs each)... Has anyone ever done that? If so, how messed up will we get? Or will we even feel it?
 

MY best friend and I are on methadone daily & we just chewed up a fentanyl patch (25mgs each)... Has anyone ever done that? If so, how messed up will we get? Or will we even feel it?

How could anyone answer that without knowing more information...
 
No it just blocks everything and everything there is? If thats not an antagonist I don't know what is?

It "blocks" because it has a higher affinity for the opioid receptors in your brain. It's still a full agonist. Just because it "blocks" other opiates doesn't mean it's an antagonist. An example of a mixed agonist/antagonist would be buprenorphine. Taking bupe after taking a full agonist opioid (ie methadone) will send you into precipitated withdrawals. Just like taking nalaxone (an opioid antagonist).

Now you know (what an antagonist is).

On another note I can confirm that Fentanyl will work with Suboxone, I took a 4mg dose of Suboxone during the day, then slapped on a 100mcg/hr fent patch approx. 16 hours after taking my Suboxone. I felt the full effects of the Fentanyl. I was on the nod all day and everything. I even took a 2mg dose of Suboxone later that night and felt no ill-effects from it. I believe Fentanyl to have a higher affinity than bupe for opioid receptors.
 
Op, I don't think you ever answered the Q's that many people asked regarding your tolerance, how much you are used to taking, how often you dose, how long you have been taking methadone, etc.
 
they should just make methadone without the blocker....cause it puts the user at risk for an overdose. by this i mean....you pretty much have to shoot pure heroin to get high and i wouldn't even call it a high lol. its very weak and dangerous.

I'm pretty sure methadone doesn't "have a blocker" in it....like suboxone. I think methadone's effect in general block other opiates/opioids.
 
It "blocks" because it has a higher affinity for the opioid receptors in your brain. It's still a full agonist. Just because it "blocks" other opiates doesn't mean it's an antagonist. An example of a mixed agonist/antagonist would be buprenorphine. Taking bupe after taking a full agonist opioid (ie methadone) will send you into precipitated withdrawals. Just like taking nalaxone (an opioid antagonist).

Now you know (what an antagonist is).

On another note I can confirm that Fentanyl will work with Suboxone, I took a 4mg dose of Suboxone during the day, then slapped on a 100mcg/hr fent patch approx. 16 hours after taking my Suboxone. I felt the full effects of the Fentanyl. I was on the nod all day and everything. I even took a 2mg dose of Suboxone later that night and felt no ill-effects from it. I believe Fentanyl to have a higher affinity than bupe for opioid receptors.

how many hours after putting on the patch did it take to feel the fentanyl?

fentanyl doesn't have a higher affinity that bupe to the receptors, it's just way closer in range than most other agonists. The reason you probably felt high off the fentanyl, was because 2 mg is a low dose of suboxone (if sublingualed, only about 600 mcg are absorbed), and your patch releases 100 mcg of fentanyl an hour. I'm thinking that maybe for the first few hours bupe would block fentanyl, but as the time goes on, and the ammount of fentanyl increases, the amount of bupe would be decreasing.
 
Hello i am new to the forum and i must say there is some interesting reading in here,especialy this topic and thanx for all of your contributions.

I have some questions....

If methadone is infact not "blocking" other opoids and they have no efects only becouse of high tolerance to opoids, then why doesnt extra opoids acumulate and make the efects on opoid receptor stronger? I think there is more then only high tolerance... and that methadone is infact "blocking" other opoids in a way... offcourse i dont mean like antagonist opoids.

Here is what i think...

There are 2 main factors

1. because methadone has a higher affinity for the opioid receptors, other opoids with lower affinity can not acces the receptor and interact with it(similar as with antagonist opoids)... so receptor is alredy ocupied("blocked in a way")

2. Cross tolerance


I think other opoids will offcourse work,but their dosage must be REALY,REALY high to overcome methadone... so its not only the case of cross tolerance,but also methadones higher affinity for the opioid receptors.

let me know what you think?

Here a quote from Wikipedia

# Sufentanil (trade name Sufenta), a potent analgesic (five to 10 times more potent than fentanyl) for use in specific surgeries and surgery in heavily opioid-tolerant/opioid-dependent patients. Its binding affinity is high enough to theoretically break through a buprenorphine blockade to offer pain relief from acute trauma in patients who are taking high-dose buprenorphine.

link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fentanyl

another thing i wanted to share is Opioid (Narcotic) analgesic converter that will convert your methadone dosage to any other opoid dosage for same narcotic efect...
Opioid (Narcotic) analgesic converter
http://www.globalrph.com/narcoticonv.htm
 
i've been takin methadone daily for 7 months i was up to 160mg but i was decreasing slowly and am down to 65mg i missed 2 days due to snow so i ate half a 100mc fetanyl patch and i feel real good not withdrawling anymore but not very high but i also have a extremly high tolerance i was shooting up half gram to a gram of baltimore raw heroin daily so u can get high off fetanyl with methadone in your system u just need to be careful
 
be really carefull with fent patch's you may be fine for a few hours but fent patch's seem to be inconsistant by wich i mean one minute you may think "this sucks" then a hour later your thinking "this is too strong" this is pry why you thought the fent patch had ran out they last 3 days or so when i was wearing them i would wear them for a day then boom it would release a ton then it would taper off then like 12 hours later boom again it would release a ton so be careful when you are doseing another med thinking its "wore off" also i have heard putting a heating pad over it for a hour or so makes it release quite a bit more of the med though havent tryed it myself and dont know how that would effect the longgevity of the patch but may be worth a try instead of takeing meth ontop of it
 
What is wrong with this picture??

Okay please people we need to look at the types of questions that are being asked. I am very aware of synthetic, semi-synthetic, and straight up opiates as well as agonists and partial agonist, and antagonistic meds but the real question is: If you are asking if you can safely mix Methadone or Fentanyl or Xanax or even Heroin you have to already know that you are an addict and the reason for mixing these is not relief of pain or trying not to be dopesick becasue methadone or suboxone alone can do this. Please heed this warning. My cousin Rocco, Had a very very strong tolerance to opiates as he was a heroin addict and got on methdaone and soon that was not enough. He flatlined 5 times and was brought back with the evr wonderful Narcan, fior those of us who have od'd we know what that is. I thought he was going to get better , instead he strated messing with xanax and methadone then fentanyk and finally died on June 15, 2009. He thought he was a chemist as most of the younger generation thinks it is. we are not doctors, do NOT for any instance recommend a drug to a friend or tell a friend it is ok to mix drugs because the simple fact is YOU DON'T KNOW and neither DO I!!! Please if you are on this path, talk to someone, anyone especially a doctor, or therapist or your methadone counselor!! Don't assume because it is not a street drug IT IS NOT FATAL bceause IT IS!!! I'm very concerned for this generatrion in their early to mid-twenties who will not live to see 35 either due to an OD or liver failure and please remember that Alcohol is a Drug.. I'm not passing judgement as I am a recovering addict who tried to help my cousin during the height of my addiction but I never condoned or mixed drugs. I'm only trying to help. IF you really need someone to talk to you can always email me at: [email protected] and we can chat!! For those that have friends that are doing this don't ever give up on them , please try to talk to them before you can no longer talk to them
 
Fed Up

I have spent many many many months on sites like this sincerely HOPING to find HELP from others with the same issues that I have now struggled with since 1996! 5 spinal surgeries in one year due to a sacral sub arachnoid cyst; bone graft from my hip where the lesion had disintegrated away my sacral bone to NOTHING; a shunt the size of a slurpee straw inserted into my spinal cord to hopefully shrink the size of the cyst; and FINALLY a diskectomy to help relieve pain and a radiofrequency denervation procedure (burning my sciatic nerve in hopes to KILL it completely so I wouldn't have to feel ANY pain!!! however, all of this was to no avail since it only caused INCREASED, CONSISTENT PAIN! FONT]

I give you all of this info and background in hopes that you may be intelligent enough to put "two and two" together and REALIZE what TRUE TRAUMA involves! Let me take this opportunity to say that I am NOT speaking to the patients That KNOW and have been through this kind of trauma and so much MORE! NO, My heart holds NOTHING but respect and compassion for you!

Now getting to my point! It makes me literally SICK to read these posts, these "pseudo cries for help" in "How to get HIGH..NOT because of debilitating pain; the kind that leaves one in a fetal position on the floor or even, at times, contemplating "ending it all"! These forums, I naively thought, were for HELPING THOSE in TRUE Pain! Boy, was I wrong! And its posts like the one's I've read here that leave me feeling hopeless and helpless for our Fellow Humans!! What kind of "moderator" would allow this to go on? This is why I no longer turn to these kinds of resources for any "relevant answers"! I would also like to reemphasize that I mean NO disrespect to those who have responded on this particular post who have simply attempted to help in some way!

Hopefully in the future we will see more serious sites and forums emerge as more and more people,unfortunately, will begin experiencing TRUE PAIN!
 
i am on 50mcg fentanyl patches,every other day,15 a month.ive been on them for 10 years and can basicly apply a new one everyday while chewing the one thats 1 day old.needless to say i have a ridiculous tolerance to everything pretty much but what I was wondering is being on the Fentanyl if I were to take a Methadone wafer right now would I get anything or feel anything from it because I am able to get to methadone Wafers right now and was wondering if I took one while being on the Fentanyl and Percocets by the way when I get or feel anything from it please respond ASAP
 
FYI, this thread is from 2009 and you're quoting a message from 10+ years ago 😅
 
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