• LAVA Moderator: Mysterier

Stupid People In Class

OK, maybe it's just me but I get so put off when I'm in class and hear stupid shit come out of people's mouths.

People are stupid. Period. It hurts, I know.

Half the people at my college aren't qualified to light a cigarette. Common sense has been substituted for... I don't know what.. but I look around and its becoming harder and harder to find it in people.
 
I mean, some real-world perspective in case you're called upon to back up your statements.

Well, I'd trust a peer-reviewed journal article over, "Well, this guy I knew. . ." :)
I'd of course have to account for biases...I'd probably look to leftist/liberatory sociologies of deviance (like maybe Howard Becker) rather than criminology or counseling technique literature.

I am saying that non-addicts in all of my experience have never been able to truly comprehend the exact nature of addiction. Even the most open-minded people with second-hand experience of addiction still have trouble understanding the obsessive, never ending stream of thoughts and the compulsion and need to use at times for reasons unknown.

A couple points:
1. Why should we assume that addicts tend to share a common experience of their addictions?
2. I think that most humans, at some point, experience compulsive, fixated desire or acquired but deeply entrenched reliance on some thing or activity. Most any person could also think of markedly painful situations with known solutions that lie out of reach. At least by analogy, I think that non-users can empathize with addicts (just as is the case with all human exchanges lacking shared experience).

Even to your analogy I would say first hand experience in working with the financial system would make you better, just as most anything would.

I disagree. The financier and the economic researcher each acquire different sets of knowledge, but both validly link with world-finance. Sure, a savvy investor would likely have a good understanding of what kinds of trends, events, hunches, etc. tend to point toward stocks to sell and stocks to buy. But would this investor be in a good position to discover general laws and mechanisms which explain the dynamics of capitalism in relation to the last 100 years of world history (and in turn, present-day macro-level dynamics)? Well, perhaps if this investor acted like a researcher, learning 'indirectly' by reading up in historical archives, looking at longitudinal stats, etc.

Reading and learning is great, but it comes down to applying it in the field and having a working knowledge that actually benefits oneself and mankind IMO.

Okay. The content of these books comes from, at some point, direct observation of a phenomenon. The content of the knowledge of someone working in the 'field' comes from...observations, again. Your dichotomy is false...or at least 'blurry'.

Sterile, book-learnin' type knowledge has the certain advantage of shedding light on big-picture dynamics of the world as a system. Participant observation (or in every day terms, 'real-world' knowledge) highlights instead the possibilities for agents in such systems.

I've met many people who claim that they are open-minded and understand it in my field, but upon further conversations it becomes apparent, that although their intentions are good, and they DO help many people, that they just don't know what its like.

More precisely, I think that this reflects a condition of a lack of valid understanding of what it's like to feel as another does in any situation for any individual. Luckily, we are pretty good at building experiential bridges by interacting with each other.
...
BUT...well, you're probably correct about most people encountered in your class, who apparently lack both types of knowledge. :)
 
A couple points:
1. Why should we assume that addicts tend to share a common experience of their addictions?
2. I think that most humans, at some point, experience compulsive, fixated desire or acquired but deeply entrenched reliance on some thing or activity. Most any person could also think of markedly painful situations with known solutions that lie out of reach. At least by analogy, I think that non-users can empathize with addicts (just as is the case with all human exchanges lacking shared experience).

I have met 1,000+ addicts and in my own personal experiences I have found that no matter what drug we used or background we had we could all relate to the nature of addiction, of what it did to us. The addiction part is generally the same with slight variations with different drugs. As far as relating non-users to addicts, I do not doubt you, I am merely saying that non-addicts may get most of it and understand it, but they just don't know what it's like. Like I studied LSD for example long and hard before using it. I had a very good understanding of what the experience was like, but I didn't know until I had experienced it.

Okay. The content of these books comes from, at some point, direct observation of a phenomenon. The content of the knowledge of someone working in the 'field' comes from...observations, again. Your dichotomy is false...or at least 'blurry'.

Okay, yes books have a place in learning. However, who is to say that the original observer was even accurate or knowledgeable? I have read many textbooks concerning drugs and addiction that they give to 'teach' students in college, and have found very disturbing discrepancies. These books also promote traditional BS such as stuff like LSD will make people crazy, they will have horrible flashbacks for life, and that it is likely that they might kill themselves by thinking they can fly off a building. I mean come on, really?
And with people working 'in the field' it all depends on the person and there perceptions. Someone could work with a client and horribly misunderstand them but perceive that they are doing a great job, I've seen that happen much too often. Then again they could be right on point. Just because they observe it first hand does not nessecarily mean it is accurate.

Thank you for the mini debate though, I do find that it causes me to really rethink and dive deeper into my thoughts and more importantly why I think and view things the way I do. I find it most interesting, so thanks again!
 
Thank you for the mini debate though, I do find that it causes me to really rethink and dive deeper into my thoughts and more importantly why I think and view things the way I do. I find it most interesting, so thanks again!

<3 :)
I was worried that my tangent would seem damned boring yet combative, wrought of self-indulgence.

More later.
 
Shit, this is like old news. I've gone through court-ordered drug abuse counsouling/treatment twice: once for a tiny bag of weed, and the second for trace amounts of DMT. I feel safe saying I've never had any addictive tendencies towards drugs over the 7 or so years they been a part of my life; many of my friends would attest that I have superhuman willpower in my ability to hold drugs and not use them. However, in both cases I was treated like a compulsive drug addict; I was told that the only reason I haven't experienced the more tell-tale, life destroying signs of addiction is because 'they'd' caught it soon enough. What really sucks about the cocksmokers that run these operations is that until you play their game, you make no 'progress'. I basically had to pretend that I was an addict and that I'd identified such a quality in myself and was ready to subject myself to their treatment. I'll tell you, it was a demeaning fucking circus act jumping through all those bogus hoops. And these are people who're supposedly educated and certified on these issues!? This is some middle ages shit! Hardly better than 'guilty until proven flammable'!

They also made the case that because my drug use had led to legal trouble, it was a strong indication that I was an addict. Well, for the pot I was young and stupid and when the cops showed up I said everything was mine as to take the heat off the others instead of everyone getting popped. I got nailed with a trace amount of DMT after I erred in informing my family, on my own volition, that I had and did use psychedelics, to which they responded with getting to my apt behind my back and turning everything they found into the police, before attempting an intervention which I couldn't help but laugh at (little did I know that they'd already handed my shit -- aka some bark fragments in the bottom of a pot to make Aya -- over to the cops).

I would never seek help for drug use through these institutions, or any other 'professionals' because I believe they generally have a severely misguided perception of drugs in general. They are a complete, venomous fraud; utterly unenlightened, and they BANK off the criminal injustice system while providing NOTHING of value in return to either society or the people who're legally obligated to pay their outrageous sums. It's a Goddamn textbook racketeering scheme, literally. So long as drug use, drug abuse, and addiction are so blatantly misunderstood -- and people who enact and enforce drug policy see no distinction between either of the three -- nothing will ever change. The public doesn't give a shit about issues like this either as it only pertains to 'druggies'. Ignorance has a deeply vested interest here.

Edit to add: In my experience these people were also generally ignorant about drugs, their mechanisms of action, etc. During the various classes I attended, I took up several opportunities to point out all the errors and misinformation they provided as fact. This became quite irritating to them, especially when I'd bring in various studies which showed beyond a doubt that they were wrong. It undermined their credibility. However satisfying this was though, I believe it still worked against me because you essentially have to tow whatever line they fancy.
 
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cilosyb - not all addiction treatment is like that, but i will say +90% usually is, and it's sad. Especially in the criminal "justice" field. That is why I am trying to get into this field. I believe I have a pretty solid, and realistic knowledge and understanding about drug and addiction issues. I know that when "some punk ass kid" who is in treatment tries to correct them, they will most likely never listen or care. Hopefully by becoming well known and respected in the field, I would like to hope that I can change some of these errors and backwards ways. Who knows....

but yeah sorry you had such a bad experience, I know what you mean- I was in class tonight and tried to correct him about Ecstasy. The definition in our textbook was simply Ecstasy is a club drug mostly usually made in clandestine home labs. THAT WAS IT. So when i tried to explain that it was MDMA and a Phenethylamine, and that it was not as commonly made at home as Meth, everyone in class looked at me like I had three heads....it's sad...
 
when i'm in class i'm there to learn not listen to the bullshit that spews out of other peoples mouths- but that's a personal thing. even though they're annoying, they arent essential to the reason why you're in the class so why bother with them?
 
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when i'm in class i'm there to learn not listen to the bullshit that spews out of other peoples mouths

ummm...does anything else occur in class? I mean, there might be some writing on the chalk board too... ;)
 
haha yeah sorry for the rant, it was just a frustrating day. The professor was entertaining these people and letting them go on and on about bullshit all class long. We did jackshit for an entire class period that is 2:45 long.

but I have just had a nice spring break up here in DC, and time to rejuvenate before returning to class%)
 
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