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Thread: Detoxing poison from the system

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    #26
    Quote Originally Posted by mr_p View Post
    so whats your opinion on accupuncture and alternative healing?

    coz I had a nightmarish experience going thru the western medical system when i was 17.

    All these doctors seemed to view the body as a machine, ect, ect...

    so eventually I went and saw a naturopath/acupuncturist who treated my whole energy system and from the very beginning it just felt right and every week my symptoms were healing and I eventually got on top of the dis-ease

    i DO appreciate western medicine and i remind myself that it has saved my life... so i do see the major benefits of the western medical system, I just feel this way of thinking can become very narrow-minded if seen as 'the only way'

    This is what I think of acupuncture:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/he...ving-pain.html


    Acupuncture 'has almost no effect in relieving pain'
    The pain relieving effects of acupuncture are so small that they may be clinically irrelevant, according to a review of research into the treatment.

    Scientists looking at 13 studies into the traditional therapy, in which needles are placed into the skin to stimulate specific pressure points, found its effect on pain reduction to be around just four per cent.

    The effect is so small that it is not statistically significant, and does not even register as "minimal", they said.

    The studies, which involved more than 3,000 patients, compared the effects of the treatment against "sham" acupuncture, in which needles are usually placed far from m traditional acupuncture points and closer to the surface of the skin.

    Researchers at the Nordic Cochrane Centre in Copenhagen, who published their results on the BMJ journal, looked at the ability of acupuncture to relieve that pain of a number of conditions including osteoarthritis in the knee, migraine and pain in the lower back.

    Asbjørn Hrobjartsson, from the centre, who led the study, said that the findings questioned the theory that acupuncture had a strong impact on feelings of pain.

    But Dr Adrian White and Dr Mike Cummings, from the British Medical Acupuncture Society, writing in the same journal, said that although the overall effect was not large the therapy could be useful for some conditions, particularly musculoskeletal conditions, for which there are few other treatments.

    Last week scientists warned that the therapeutic effects of acupuncture were mostly in the mind.
    Because they studied "sham" acupuncture, where the acupuncturist stuck needles in random spots that had nothing to do with their meridians and chi flow, and found that the placebo effect was more powerful of a painkiller than the real acupuncture technique.
     

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    #27
    Quote Originally Posted by mr_p View Post
    ok... this is good

    i need to hear this

    so what your saying (just so i can clarify) is that healthy eating does NOT assist the body in detoxing itself...

    so i could just go out and eat pizza and bear and leave all that detoxing crap behind ... and my body will do an equally good job of cleaning itself?

    is this what your saying ?

    or have i mis-read?

    do you see no correlation between the food you eat and the abilities of your body to cleanse itself

    because to me it would seem that certain food would assist the process ? (or at the VERY least make you feel lighter and fresher)

    i remember when i used to drink heaps of vegie juices... it was great, i felt so alive, and it felt so good especially when the beetroot came from my own garden (but maybe this is just marketing crap ?)

    seriously, i'm open to any suggestions you have ... fire away
    The problem is that you seem to think that words like "pure" and "clean" apply to human health. Cleanliness is just a construct of human language and culture. It has no basis in reality.

    There's nothing dirty or toxic about most recreational drugs either... once the effects of the drug wear off, you're back to normal.
     

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    #28
    Bluelighter mr_p's Avatar
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    The problem is that you seem to think that words like "pure" and "clean" apply to human health. Cleanliness is just a construct of human language and culture. It has no basis in reality.

    There's nothing dirty or toxic about most recreational drugs either... once the effects of the drug wear off, you're back to normal.
    the problem is, you seem to think i actually used the words "pure" and "clean" in my post ?

    you're taking this way of topic and not offering any real solutions/advice

    and as far as acupuncture goes... I wouldn't be surprised at all if that study was sponsored by some pharmaceutical company

    my experience with acupuncture has been nothing short of profound, the shift it has on my energy system is simply astounding....

    all i can go on is experience... and all you seem to have is an article found on the internet
     

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    #29
    Quote Originally Posted by mr_p
    so i could just go out and eat pizza and bear and leave all that detoxing crap behind ... and my body will do an equally good job of cleaning itself?
    See above.
     

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    #30
    Bluelighter mr_p's Avatar
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    semantics
     

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    #31
    Bluelight Crew Mehm's Avatar
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    If acupuncture is bunk, how is it used to perform open heart surgery with no anesthetics?
     

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    #32
    Bluelight Crew Jamshyd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr_p View Post
    so what your saying (just so i can clarify) is that healthy eating does NOT assist the body in detoxing itself...

    so i could just go out and eat pizza and bear and leave all that detoxing crap behind ... and my body will do an equally good job of cleaning itself?

    is this what your saying ?

    or have i mis-read?

    do you see no correlation between the food you eat and the abilities of your body to cleanse itself
    Besides the fact that I agree that this is irrelevant...

    No, there is no correlation. This is life - you are built to cleanse yourself while you eat. This is nature (as in, the biosphere). This is how all animals work.

    Assuming that what you're eating doesn't seriously (ie. actively) interfere with metabolism (for example, grapefruit juice), then go for it. If pizza makes you feel good, then why not? I eat pizza every weekend at my favourite parlour at the weekend market. It makes me feel like an accomplished person, having survived a week of work to earn a stroll through the antiques market and eat this wonderful pizza. No, I've never noticed it interfering with my body's ability to cleanse itself, but I DID notice that it made me feel GREAT.

    You have internal organs for a reason, and having them do their cleanup work is a natural part of life, otherwise they wouldn't be there, right?

    because to me it would seem that certain food would assist the process ? (or at the VERY least make you feel lighter and fresher)
    "Light" and "fresh" are subjective, arbitrary terms. "Toxins", on the other hand, is an objective, empirically-measurable term. You simply cannot quantify "freshness" (as an emotion) in order to correlate it with toxin levels.

    Don't get me wrong - like I mention in the first part of this post - certain foods DO have positive emotional (and perhaps, spiritual) effects, its just that these effects should not be conflated with pharmacodynamics.

    i remember when i used to drink heaps of vegie juices... it was great, i felt so alive, and it felt so good especially when the beetroot came from my own garden (but maybe this is just marketing crap ?)

    seriously, i'm open to any suggestions you have ... fire away
    Much of this makes little sense. I don't understand, but I suppose you were trying to be sarcastic somehow?

    Whatever. I'm off.

    p.s. "Semantics" is such a convenient way to escape any kind of counter-argument, isn't it?
     

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    #33
    Bluelighter mr_p's Avatar
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    as you may have picked up, i'm not a very good at expressing myself

    so let me clarify

    I LOVE pizza... i had a really nice yummy seafood pizza today

    lets agree to disagree on the correlation between foods eaten and the bodies ability to cleanse, *ahem* i mean detox, or whatever scientifically correct term is used for the body ridding itself of all the *crap*

    ~peace~
     

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    #34
    Bluelight Crew Jamshyd's Avatar
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    Well you asked for advice, and I gave it. There is nothing to disagree about. Obviously, we were talking about Pizza the whole time, since loving or hating it seems to be of far more importance than the actual subject of discussion .

    Why do I even bother? *sigh*
     

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    #35
    Bluelight Crew Pander Bear's Avatar
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    meanwhile, in the world of actual medicine...

    http://ted.org/index.php/talks/joe_d...ler_virus.html
     

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    #36
    Bluelight Crew mariacallas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr_p View Post

    and as far as acupuncture goes... I wouldn't be surprised at all if that study was sponsored by some pharmaceutical company

    my experience with acupuncture has been nothing short of profound, the shift it has on my energy system is simply astounding....

    all i can go on is experience... and all you seem to have is an article found on the internet
    Same here my friend. I've posted about acupuncture in this forum in the past. It has helped me immensely.
     

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    #37
    Bluelighter mr_p's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamshyd View Post
    Why do I even bother? *sigh*
    “Everything that irritates us about others can lead us to an understanding of ourselves.”

    Carl Gustav Jung quote
     

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    #38
    Bluelighter mr_p's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pander Bear View Post
    meanwhile, in the world of actual medicine...

    http://ted.org/index.php/talks/joe_d...ler_virus.html
    I found this one MUCH more interesting ...


    http://ted.org/index.php/talks/paul_stamets_on_6_ways_mushrooms_can_save_the_worl d.html
     

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    #39
    bentonite clay. seriously look it up.
    you can use it to help remove chemicals from your body.
    if you don't feel better after doing the clay mask - go to the doctor.
    djh
     

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    #40
    Eat right, exercise, stay away from excess drugs. It really is that simple. The body detoxes itself continuosly and it is easier just not to put any toxins in your body and stay healthy. Detoxing is a load of new age bullshit. The reason those "energy" things work is placebo. Probably the same reason you still aren't feeling right, all in your mind.
     

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    #41
    Bluelight Crew Jamshyd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr_p View Post
    “Everything that irritates us about others can lead us to an understanding of ourselves.”

    Carl Gustav Jung quote
    Second-best counter-argument after "Semantics": Make it all about the other's unconscious .
     

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    #42
    Bluelight Crew Jamshyd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pander Bear View Post
    meanwhile, in the world of actual medicine...

    http://ted.org/index.php/talks/joe_d...ler_virus.html
    That IS pretty damn cool . Excellent speaker, too.

    Edit: As is this

    Quote Originally Posted by mr_p View Post
    Last edited by Jamshyd; 31-01-2009 at 05:54.
     

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    #43
    Bluelighter mr_p's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamshyd View Post
    Second-best counter-argument after "Semantics": Make it all about the other's unconscious .

    i didn't start this thread with the intention to argue

    and that comment was something i wanted to share because I felt it applied to MY reaction to your posts (not the other way around)
     

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    #44
    Bluelighter mr_p's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pander Bear View Post
    meanwhile, in the world of actual medicine...

    http://ted.org/index.php/talks/joe_d...ler_virus.html
    the "real" world
     

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    #45
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    uhh ok to bring this thread back on topic:

    mr_p: did you wash yourself off right after the chem spilled on you as per the MSDS? when it comes to hazardous materials, never fuck around. it's your right as an employee to have on-site access to the data for any material you work with and to be treated immediately if exposed.

    in regards to the detoxing... while it may be a "consumerist fad," it still bears weight. i notice it's not a very common concept in europe where people generally eat healthier, and for that reason precisely. most of the western world populace consumes an irrational amount of processed foods, packed with refined sugar and shit that's just plain nasty once it's in the body. a lot of that crap turns toxic once it's digested/metabolized and diminishes your body's ability to clean itself.

    this is how diseases work. why do people get lung diseases from smoking? because they overload organs with more shit than it can kick out and SLOW the efficiency of the cleansing systems trying to work in the body. next time you go shopping at the supermarket, write a list of the ingredients in everything you buy then tally them up and google them. for the typical westerner, i can almost guarantee half the shit on that list clogs up your inner workings and prevents toxins from being excreted as they naturally would.

    so no, you don't really need to buy all the products touting DETOX abilities but they're not a bad thing either. the real problem is that some people don't know how to use them effectively and most people don't stick with it since they're used to the fast action of modern medication and think it's not working because they can't feel improvements day to day.

    well shit, most people don't get chronically ill from day to day so how the fuck is it reasonable to expect the healing to be complete in a week?
     

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