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Thread: Condensing Suboxone (Non-specific extraction)

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    Condensing Suboxone (Non-specific extraction) 
    #1
    Just to start, this thread is not about wanting to know how to extract the buprenorphine from the pill and separate it from the naloxone.

    Rather, the longer I am on suboxone, the more resistant I am to using it sublingually. I have begun snorting it to avoid that, and the effects are also more useful. I am able to obtain an energy and contentedness reminiscent of full-agonist opiates, but it is mild and I remain "sober", rather than intoxicated.

    I would like to know if anyone knows a way to non-selectively pull out the active components of suboxone. That is, I do not mind if I pull out both the buprenorphine AND the naloxone, I would just like to drastically reduce the volume of product.

    4mg of suboxone nasally produces the optimum effects for my body, maintaining a sober state while slightly elevating my mood. But, as anyone who has tried knows, even 4mg of crushed suboxone can be an oppressive amount of powder to snort, especially regularly.

    If anyone can offer any tips as to how to pull out the bupe and naloxone and reduce the volume of the final product, even just by half, it would be most appreciated. It would make both sublingual and intranasal administration so much easier.

    Thanks!
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    #2
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    Snorting 4mg really isn't that much powder IME. Why don't you try putting a drop or two of some ethanol under your tongue while the bupe is dissolving? That's just like snorting it to me. It increases the BA a good bit.
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    #3
    By the way, I am aware of this post: http://bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=340542
    But it doesn't answer my question and quickly degrades into nothing useful.

    Thanks wiggi, I will try the ethanol trick and will be interested if it works. However, I don't think it is something I could do regularly becuase of the alcohol burn. That point is my same response to the volume of 4mg powder.

    I would prefer to only have to snort a small line, rather than one or two reasonably sized lines. If snorting infrequently, you are absolutely correct, the 4mg suboxone powder is definately tolerable.

    However, about a year ago I had nose surgery to repair a deviated septum, and taking that volume of powder regularly is almost sure to destroy my nose Thanks for your response though, I am eager to see if the alcohol will create an experience closer to snorting. Do you reckon that alcohol+sublingual lasts as long as a typical sublingual dose? I find that snorting it wears out around 8 hours sooner.
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    #4
    I have shot subs before, but I can't do that in any sort of realistic maintenence context...though I agree, you can definately feel something off of it.

    But again, I'm not trying to get high, per se. Only make the sub easier to take and with more agreeable characteristics.

    Anyone with any ideas on how to pull the bupe/naloxone out of the pill, separating them from as many binders and sugars and whatever else makes up the bulk of the pill?

    Thanks again
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    #5
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    I know exactly what you mean about the uplifting feeling you get from snorting. It's definitely not a high. I'm guessing you could dissolve the Suboxone in rubbing alcohol 90% or anything high proof then filter as you would for injection but let the solution dry out then snort the product.
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    #6
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    just tell you're doc you how the nalex makes you twitch and how it makes you're limbs feel swollen and achey and how it makes you feel disoriented and ask for a switch to subutex.

    i really feel like shooting them is a waste and doesn't do shit. it's also very risky or can be.

    subutex tastes bad. i felt more clear headed and energetic on subutex but i feel less likely to use dope on suboxone.
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    #7
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    Have you tried simply dissolving the sub in water, then agitating until the tablet is completely. Once done let it sit for some time for the powers to settle. Use a syringe without a pin in it to remove most of the solution. At more water to the sediment and repeat the process. Once complete evaporate the liquid avoiding heat (don't use any excess heat to aid evaporation, increase the sollutions surface area and use airflow to speed up the process.

    Please be aware that due to the very small amounts of these chemicals in each pill (ie 3,4,8 mg) the resulting extracted power will be almost imposible to work with. For this reason unless your going to do a larger number of tablets it will not be worth it.

    Beware: due to the potency of this drug such a concentrated form of the chemical could be considered very dangerous to those with no tolerance/are unaware of what the substance is...
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    #8
    Also be aware that buprenorphine's solubility is 17mg/mL
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    #9
    I also just read that bupe solubility in alcohol is 47mg/ml. Thats a lot.

    What if one where to disolve a pill in a mixture of everclear and H20 and put in the freezer in a shotglass.

    Would the water freeze at the bottom, trapping most of the binders and fillers, leaving the bupe to absorb into the alcohol level, or would the low temp lower solubility that much.

    How would the bupe disperse itself thruout that solultion as it freezes. Maybe doing this process a couple of times, each time collecting the alcohol?

    Does this make sense.
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    #10
    Quote Originally Posted by bmoredope View Post
    shoot it. The naloxone wont fuck up the bupe. I've shot bupe plenty of times. The naloxone will only knock full agonists off your opiate receptors.

    When i wasnt doing h, i would shoot suboxone and get high. I'm talking nodding out, ect. Granted i had no tolerance to opiates where as you obviously do. I'd shoot 2mg and be good alllll night.
    do not shoot suboxone. This is a harm reduction website dude.
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    #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by ilovechronic View Post
    do not shoot suboxone. This is a harm reduction website dude.
    yeah for real thats not the best idea
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    #12
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    it really works best and most consistent sublingual...

    I can get an amazing buzz off suboxone but i only take .5mg-1mg every 3-7 days.....

    It lasts forever and im not taking it so frequently that i build any reasonable tolerance to effects..

    I just took .5mgs and i havent taken any sub in 6 or 7 days im in for a treat
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    #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmoredope View Post
    shoot it. The naloxone wont fuck up the bupe. I've shot bupe plenty of times. The naloxone will only knock full agonists off your opiate receptors.

    When I wasnt doing H, I would shoot suboxone and get HIGH. I'm talking nodding out, ect. Granted I had no tolerance to opiates where as you obviously do. I'd shoot 2mg and be good alllll night.
    No one listen to this guy. Shooting bupe is really fucking dangerous. People loose limbs because of missing shots of Suboxone. This advice is coming from the man who was going to cut out a naltrexone implant from his fucking hip. I know several other people have criticized this post, but I wanted to add my two cents. Common sense should tell you that it's not good to be shooting up something that's a fucking orange solution.
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    #14
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    DO NOT suggest injecting to someone on Suboxone maintenance in this forum.
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    #15
    Wiggi:Who cares what color the solution is.

    What? Because its orange you cannot inject it?
    Your post is stupid.

    yo_bot: You post is so retarded, Im not even going to explain how moronic it is. Geez people There is no difference between suboxone and subutex. blah blah. The naloxone does NOTHING.

    naloxone was added to extend R&B patent on the drug. PERIOD.

    wiggi: Don't spread stupid rumors about people losing limbs over missing a shot of suboxone. That is so stupid.

    I really wonder about the intelligence of this forum. Geez guys. Do some research.
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    #16
    Sorry guys I was in a bad mood. I didn't mean to take this thread so personally. I've had a long day.

    yo_bot: your comment is still ridiculous... Sorry dude, but its true.

    wiggi, sorry for being an ass...
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    #17
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    I like all the powder it makes me takes less of the suboxone besides alot of people say less is more although i never believed them. I used to take suboxone sublingual 95% ethanol solution and 3 pills a day now I take 1-2 8mg pills by snorting also you dont want to take to much nalaxone out if your trying to extract the bupe. Nalaxone has been shown to reduce tolerance and addiction in miniscule and theres been over 15 studies on this. although their just studies
    Last edited by Paulination; 12-08-2010 at 02:59.
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    #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by ilovechronic View Post
    do not shoot suboxone. This is a harm reduction website dude.
    Quote Originally Posted by keygen View Post
    yeah for real thats not the best idea
    Quote Originally Posted by wiggi View Post
    No one listen to this guy. Shooting bupe is really fucking dangerous. People loose limbs because of missing shots of Suboxone. This advice is coming from the man who was going to cut out a naltrexone implant from his fucking hip. I know several other people have criticized this post, but I wanted to add my two cents. Common sense should tell you that it's not good to be shooting up something that's a fucking orange solution.
    Guys, if you read the Micron Filtering Megathread it actually goes over how to safely shoot Suboxone. Shooting just the pills is a dangerous idea (ie mixing them with water and drawing up), you guys are right. In the interest of harm reduction, if the OP chooses to inject Suboxone he/she should do it safely. That's why we have a tutorial on how to micron filter Suboxone. As far as the orange coloring is concerned, I think most color additives are safe, or at least won't be doing a whole lot of damage. That's something you'll need to take into consideration and proceed with your own risk.

    I've followed the tutorial, and honestly I haven't had any problems as of yet. I think Captain H would be a good guy to talk to regarding IV'ing Suboxone. Hell he wrote the book. . . errr tutorial
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    #19
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    Im not trying to sound like a doctor or parent or anything but if you had surgery on a deviated septum then your probably really fucking up your nose im not trying to scare you or anything but if you continue you to snort suboxone I would imagine you would have to get sugery again, although i dont know if suboxone really hurts the nose. how long ago was the sugery? how did you get that? the only way I heard you could get that by snorting anything is from years of cocaine abuse. howd it happen. I wish I could help you with some extraction answer. lol you probably wont be able to really extract the bupe from all the powder without it getting all slushy and wet. you should try rectally if you are ok with that i heard its just as good a IV and you dont fuck up your veins.

    Hey does anyone know if the suboxone pill snorted will cause damage to the nose?
    Last edited by Paulination; 12-08-2010 at 03:11.
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    #20
    Snorting ANYTHING will damage the nose, allthough some things will cause more damage than others.
    But in my opinion snorting suboxone doesnt hurt much and hasnt resulted in any problems/pain with my nose(actually nothing ive snorted has) so my guess would be that its ok as long as you dont do it for years and years.

    (Allthough I IV my suboxone now and it works WAAAY better(100% BA)....all you gotta do is filter correctly...micron filter...etc...)
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    #21
    Needle
    Going back to the topic.

    I think its very hard to extract/isolate Bup from suboxone. Using the different water solubility won't work.

    I do remember reading on the monograph about naloxone dissolving in highly basic solutions.

    From my little experience. You need to find a solvent that one dissolves in and the other does not.

    Even if you were to carry this out correctly. The yield is questionable and probably low. You will never 100% isolate naloxone. I think it you had a shit load of suboxone then it would be nice to extract it.

    Also, unless you are planning to inject suboxone. There is no point what so ever to remove naloxone component. Even having naloxone in the combination product does very little once injected. (Non-opioid addict, no other full agonists, low tolerance)

    It very powerful if injected by a non-dependence or regular opioid user. wink wink
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    #22
    Bluelighter Proggy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by augustwest View Post
    I also just read that bupe solubility in alcohol is 47mg/ml. Thats a lot.

    What if one where to disolve a pill in a mixture of everclear and H20 and put in the freezer in a shotglass.

    Would the water freeze at the bottom, trapping most of the binders and fillers, leaving the bupe to absorb into the alcohol level, or would the low temp lower solubility that much.

    How would the bupe disperse itself thruout that solultion as it freezes. Maybe doing this process a couple of times, each time collecting the alcohol?

    Does this make sense.
    when you mix water with alcohol it creates a mixture called an aziotrope (spelling?) which doesnt separate easily. the freeze thing might work for most of the water, but you need some large expensive equipment to get the last 5% of the water. thats why the purest ethyl alcohol you can buy at the liquor store is 190 proof (95% ). The manufacturer figures you wont pay the extra cost of separating the last of the water

    Try using a solvent that DOESNT dissolve bupe (toluene or naptha should work) and crush your pill up in that. Then separate and dry the solids. The solvent is bound to remove something, thereby shrinking the mass containing the bupe. Just make sure you completely dry the solids.

    was just looking at the Wikipedia info on bupe... says sublingual tabs have 35-40% oral avail, ethanolic sublingual is 40-50% (drop or three of 151 rum would work), and snorting is 50-60%.........so i guess snorting IS better

    I also noticed that bupe is prepared as a hydrochloride...so its a candidate for an acid-base extraction....but since I didnt take organic chemistry I wouldnt know enough to tell you how. rhodiums chemistry page tells how. The a-b extraction should get rid of pretty much everything i think.
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    Make a liquid preparation. 
    #23
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    I suggest a liquid preparation.

    You will need:
    1) Suboxone tablets
    2) Oral medicine syringe
    3) Small glass resealable bottle (essential oil bottles work well)
    4) distilled water
    5) Alcohol (the kind used in liquid medicine preparations)
    6) best filter you can find (syringe micron is best, followed by lab micron, cotton in the syringe...)

    Step 1:

    Crush up your desired amount of Suboxone tablets, I suggest a weeks worth of doses at a time, so for you @ 4mg a day that would be 28mg or 3 and a half 8mg tablets.

    Using the oral syringe, carefully measure out an amount of distilled water*

    *The amount of water you use is up to you, I suggest making a preparation so that each ml contains one daily dose but remember you will be adding alcohol later, so for you that would be 6 ml of water into 28mg Suboxone leaving you with 4mg buprenorphine per ml solution after the 1ml alcohol is added later, bringing you to 7ml water.*

    The only problem is that this may not be enough water for all that powder, if that's the case, then you can use 13ml water (14ml-the 1ml for alcohol).


    Step 2:


    Lets assume you use 13ml. After heating the distilled water so that its "hot" to the touch, mix the powder and 13ml of water (measured accurately with the syringe) in a shot glass or something similar. Mix until it looks like its completely dissolved, and let cool to room temperature, then put it in the fridge for half an hour.


    Step 3:


    Take the solution out of the fridge and stir it a little. Now its time to filter. If you have a micron syringe wheel filter that's the best but really its overkill. What I did is backload some cotton into the syringe, use the plunger to cram it down towards the tip, and draw up some water and squirt it back out to wet and "wash" the cotton. After this, draw up your solution through the cotton and then carefully remove the plunger and pour the filtered solution into a new glass. Most oral syringes are 10ml so this will take 2 runs, you can use the same cotton.


    Step 4:

    Now that you have all your filtered solution in the new glass, its time to add the alcohol. You don't need a lot, for 13 ml water add 1ml so you are even with 14ml liquid in the end. If at this point you have lost some water in the filtration process, add enough alcohol to bring the total liquid up to 14ml exactly. The alcohol is to increase absorption and preserve the solution, so its not crucial but it does help. So anyways add the alcohol and remeasure your liquid to make sure your pretty close to 14ml (13.5-14.5 is OK).


    Step 5:

    Ok, so now you have a 14ml solution containing 2mg Suboxone per ml. This means every day you suck up 2ml with the syringe and squirt it under your tongue, and hold it there long enough to be absorbed (5 minutes should be plenty). This will last you a week, if the process is too time consuming, you can make bigger batches, the reason I do a week at a time is because I read somewhere that when a drug is in a liquid preparation it can sometimes lose potency faster than when in tablet form, but idk about buprenorphine. TO minimize this loss, I always store my solution in the fridge, this also inhibits bacterial growth.


    POTENCY:

    The potency of this solution can be upped by using less liquid. To find the most concentrated you can make it, you would need to look up the solubility of buprenorphine at room temp, it probably pretty good so you can make a highly concentrated solution, maybe 8mg per ml, but I am unsure.

    This liquid solution is more powerful than the tablet form. This was proven in a study where a liquid preparation of Suboxone was used in the study and afterwords it was found that the liquid preparation was better absorbed sub-lingualy than the tablet, likely due to the alcohol and less powder, that is why I suggested it to you, it should be as powerful as nasal or rectal administration if not more.


    NOTES:

    This process can be improved upon, if interested you (anyone) can look up the solubility of buprenorphine, how the solubility is affected by the other compounds in the tablets and the alcohol, and if a solution of buprenorphine, water, and alcohol will last for a long time. Also I need to know what kind of alcohol is used in medicine like cough syrups. You can then either post the updates or better yet PM them to me and I will edit my post, giving credit to whoever looked up the info of course.


    Warnings!

    You could possibly be working with a highly flammable alcohol solution, I'm talking about the alcohol itself as the finished solution will not be flammable but if you are working with alcohol above 50% concentrated, you need to be careful with it around flames, as the vapors and liquid can both ignite. This is easy just use common sense, like don't keep an open container of 90% concentration alcohol next to the stove when you heat the water. To be extra safe use an electric stove designed for laboratory use.
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    real good idea 
    #24
    Bluelighter Proggy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxyhydro View Post



    Also I need to know what kind of alcohol is used in medicine like cough syrups.
    Ethyl alcohol is the right kind. Its also called Ethanol. Its the same alcohol as whats in beer, rum, vodka etc. Pure ethanol can be purchased from a chemical supply wharehouse, but if you buy ethanol ANYWHERE other than a liquor store for your liquid preparation, make sure it isnt "Denatured". Denaturing means they add something poisonous to the Ethanol so that it cant be consumed. That way noone has to pay the federal alcohol tax. The poison is usually Methyl alcohol, also called Methanol, which can blind you. Sometimes they use Isopropyl alcohol, or even acetone. The purest ethanol you can buy at the liquor store is 95% (190 proof). Its called "Everclear" and not all stores sell it. And Im sure they dont micron filter any of the alcohol you can buy at a liquor store. As for 100% pure ethanol, chem supply house, but it'll be expensive. I cant remember how much they wanted when I called years ago, but $65 a liter seems right.

    If it was me, Id use the highest potency vodka I could find, micron filter it, then sterilize it. I say vodka because its the least fucked with liquor. Rums and whiskeys are aged in wood barrels, alot of liquors have stuff added to them after distillation (like gin). But vodka is usually bottled right out of the still almost.

    I would like to suggest you go with a half ml per dose, as that cc of water would be damn hard for me not to swallow

    Other than that it looks like a great idea. Good luck
    Last edited by Proggy; 05-10-2010 at 02:20.
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    I wouldn't say that... 
    #25
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    Although I havenít lost a limb, I also havenít missed. I do know if you keep it up your circulation will diminish greatly.. Like, play the guitar and your arm will go numb in under a minute, have fun shaking it out, i do! If tracks worry you, don't go downstairs, because trying this in your legs is a bad idea. Especially smaller veins.. Your shin may not feel right/numb for weeks. If connecting can cause this.. What would missing do? Not to mention your bodyís way of fighting viruses and other crap off goes way down. I'm not sure how but i know it does.. i never had an infection, now i get them every time i get a cut, even minor ones. Thatís what i KNOW... I've heard missing will cause you to lose a limb.. Been pretty lucky myself.. I guess.. I've heard you get bad migraines and headaches over time.. And my friends limbs all go numb with ease now.. Scary really, hard to fall asleep when you can't sleep on your arm? Or waking up 2-3 times a night to the feeling of a dead arm and having to lift it with the other and shake it out till you start to feel SOMETHING.. Tell me this over time won't lead to a lost limb.. were just waiting for the day we wake up and can no longer shake it enough to regain feeling..

    Do Not inject these.. Whatever they put in them will get you this I promise, maybe not today.. Besides don't you have enough things to stick in your arms.. Heroin itself I hear will eventually stop your heart.. Cause the fillers and crap clogs your arteries. This after many years of use though. Imagine what the fillers and crap are doing in suboxone/tex? Another scary thought, plus Iíve heard the binders never leave your blood stream. Thatís how they determine if you were a junky in autopsies. Like the case where a wife slowly killed her husband by putting Klonopin in his IV, autopsy later showed he had the veins of a junky. I just pray that in time my body will be able to work it out, maybe I'm the chosen junky .

    What of this 6/7 method? Can you use rubbing alcohol, they only mention vodka and other stronger alcohol's in the threads. Is there a big difference in rubbing, one that prevents its use?
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