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[MEGA] JWH-018 Thread

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well a medicine does not have to be completely benign to the body in terms of negative physical effects.

And you don't have to use marijuana by smoking it (you can vaporize, eat it, or plug it).

Marijuana is used as a medicine around the world, both traditionally and in modern medical settings...but we diverge from the topic hehe :D
 
"With the synthies when you lay them down on some headies"

So you're pyrolyzing them to all hell too. Who knows what the pyrolysis products are - i'll bet they aren't nice though, and maybe responsible for your "glue"! That's probably why you're using so much... most of it is probably getting burnt up!

-073 is noted as being about half the potency of the -018. I vapourise 2-3mg of the -018 and i'm high as hell for many hours. So, 4-6mg should be equivalent for the -073. Nowhere near 100, no?

FWIW I have not noticed any "glue"-like properties or significant residue when vapourising in glass. Your Mileage May Vary.
 
I haven't either, but I've always had very pure product. Was your 018 brown perchance?

methinks people hear epoxides and think epoxy.
 
JWH-250 does not have a naphthalene ring and so will not share the possible cancer risk that the others have.

However none of these compounds can be considered "safe" to experiment with! Many of them have never even been tested in mice and their toxicology is completely unknown, so if ever there were research chemicals people should be particularly cautious about, it is these ones.
 
"With the synthies when you lay them down on some headies"

So you're pyrolyzing them to all hell too. Who knows what the pyrolysis products are - i'll bet they aren't nice though, and maybe responsible for your "glue"! That's probably why you're using so much... most of it is probably getting burnt up!

-073 is noted as being about half the potency of the -018. I vapourise 2-3mg of the -018 and i'm high as hell for many hours. So, 4-6mg should be equivalent for the -073. Nowhere near 100, no?

FWIW I have not noticed any "glue"-like properties or significant residue when vapourising in glass. Your Mileage May Vary.

hey bro good thoughts

but I am sure I am not losing any, as I have experimented with both methods (glass DMT pipe and foil and regular pipe). I have a lot of trips with DMT off herb in a regular bowl and I'm sure there is no loss in potency when you're careful for vaporizing it. You just have to carefully control heat.

Anyways I'm out. Don't want to get bashed anymore as a person trying to impress people or whatever. I was just trying to help out my experience. Sorry for offending.
 
JWH-250 does not have a naphthalene ring and so will not share the possible cancer risk that the others have.

However none of these compounds can be considered "safe" to experiment with! Many of them have never even been tested in mice and their toxicology is completely unknown, so if ever there were research chemicals people should be particularly cautious about, it is these ones.

I suspect that naphthalene is a moth repelling red herring with respect to the carcinogenic dangers of pyrolysed JWH's.
 
especially with the very worrying epoxy (read GLUE-like) buildups in throat, mouth, lungs after smoking near a tenth a gram in a night.

as stated before naphthanoyl-epoxides and epoxy are 2 different beasts ,
please get your Flem tested before making these statements.

JWH-250 does not have a naphthalene ring and so will not share the possible cancer risk that the others have.

eh....watch-out some probable methoxylated benzoyl-metabolites might even be more dangerous then these probable naphthanoyl-metabolites....
...even less research is done in these compounds then on the naphthanoyls.

i would not make any confirmed statements until 018 , 073 , 081 , 200 have been tested on human (liver) cells.
I suspect that naphthalene is a moth repelling red herring with respect to the carcinogenic dangers of pyrolysed JWH's.

exactly !

your ex.
 
Still, these compounds might not be entirely physically benign. The only class of 'research' compounds that have proven almost remarkably safe are the psychedelic tryptamines and (most) phenethylamines. Of course, there has been a death or two, but it is usually the result of gross user error/incompetence: a unfortunate soul that mistakes one chemical for another or a dumbfuck teenager who wants to get m4d fuX0r'd up and insufflates 150mg of 2C-T-7. Other than those acute instances of sad mistake or Darwinian epitome, they seem at least relatively non-toxic. These might be the exact opposite: virtually impossible to kill one's self with, but manifesting a subtle chronic toxicity.
 
"I suspect that naphthalene is a moth repelling red herring with respect to the carcinogenic dangers of pyrolysed JWH's." Meaning the dangers have been exaggerated to keep the hype from spreading? Correct me if I have misunderstood your statement...
 
Ok, so you smoke 15 mg of JWH-018 in a night. Or, say, 30 mg of 073. That means that you have >15 or >30 mg respectively of metabolites floating around, right? Is that enough carcinogen to give you cancer, significantly increase risk of cancer, or fuck you up in any other way? How about if you smoke the aforementioned doses of JWHs twice a week for a year? that's close to the moderate pot smoker's yearly # of days of smokage...

(not expecting answers right now obviously but any ideaS?)
 
Meaning the dangers have been exaggerated to keep the hype from spreading? Correct me if I have misunderstood your statement...
meaning these things could easily be carcinogenic without any napthylene ring.
hopefully the hype will be stop itself, either it stops or these things get scheduled. as a class they aren't that great, there are a couple that are interesting and good.

certain idiot vendors, you know who you are, need to wake up and get sensible fast.
 
I think it's nonsense to claim that naphthaleneyl containing groups are carcinogenic due to some epoxide formed metabolically. Just look at duloxetine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duloxetine) which contains the same naphthalenyl group as JHW-18 and is used as a medication for humans. Duloxetine would't have gotten that far if there was any indication that it's carcinogenic. Saying that JHW-18 is carcinogenic due its naphthalenyl moiety is just bullshit.
 
I think it's nonsense to claim that naphthaleneyl containing groups are carcinogenic due to some epoxide formed metabolically. Just look at duloxetine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duloxetine) which contains the same naphthalenyl group as JHW-18 and is used as a medication for humans. Duloxetine would't have gotten that far if there was any indication that it's carcinogenic. Saying that JHW-18 is carcinogenic due its naphthalenyl moiety is just bullshit.

in a similar way are you saying that on the basis of a naphthalenoxy moety in a drug wih different PK that there isn't a cancer risk with the napthoyl indoles?
 
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you hack most of the glue out anyways the morning after in one or two big ole loogies...so I doubt you end up keeping most of it in you anyways...
 
Ok, so you smoke 15 mg of JWH-018 in a night. Or, say, 30 mg of 073. That means that you have >15 or >30 mg respectively of metabolites floating around, right? Is that enough carcinogen to give you cancer, significantly increase risk of cancer, or fuck you up in any other way? How about if you smoke the aforementioned doses of JWHs twice a week for a year? that's close to the moderate pot smoker's yearly # of days of smokage...

Nobody (absolutely NOBODY) can say after which dose you will have a x% higher risk of getting cancer. In theory one single molecule is enough to cause the harm. Of course, that's just theory. The most practical and realistic approach to cancerogenic substances is to avoid contact at all, or as much as possible.

you hack most of the glue out anyways the morning after in one or two big ole loogies...so I doubt you end up keeping most of it in you anyways...
UHHH!!! Bad misconception. Even if only minute amounts stay in your respiratory ways (and it's probably more than just "minute") that would be enough to cause major trouble. Cancerogenics acts in the long-term and are usually applied chronically and in low doses. Best known example, albeit not the only one: Cigarettes!

I think it's nonsense to claim that naphthaleneyl containing groups are carcinogenic due to some epoxide formed metabolically. Just look at duloxetine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duloxetine) which contains the same naphthalenyl group as JHW-18 and is used as a medication for humans. Duloxetine would't have gotten that far if there was any indication that it's carcinogenic. Saying that JHW-18 is carcinogenic due its naphthalenyl moiety is just bullshit.

Very bad misconception, too, IMO. In short, some reasons:

1. While it is allowed to compare JWH-015 (for which the toxicology study was made) with JWH-018 (which is the most prevalent AAI) due to the very close structural relationship, one cannot easily compare unrelated structures.
It depends for example on the orientation of the molecule in the CYP-enzyme, with causes the epoxide-intermediates. For a first idea (i.e. low reliability but at least an info), one could try a virtual docking of the substance in the relevant CYP-structure; if the naphthalene gets close to the active center, it will probably get metabolised, too. This is not trivial!! The sheer presence of a naphthalene-moiety doesn't automatically mean that this is a site for metabolism. Again: JWH-018 and 015 ARE comparable and for 015 the cancerogenic metabolites were shown to be within the possibilities.

2. JWH-018 offers only very few possibilities to get metabolize at all, same to 015 and lots of other AAIs, too. This makes even less probable metabolism pathways an issue again. Now add the high lipophilicity of the compound. Combine both facts and I would vote for quite a long biological halflife in vivo (...without having seen a respective study). The stuff stays in your damn fat tissue and has a LOT of time to perform even the most improbable metabolic pathways.
In Duloxetine I can see instantly several possibilities to transform the molecule into an easily excretable metabolite. Wiki says "Duloxetine has an elimination half-life of about 12 hours (range 8 to 17 hours)", although I dunno where this info was taken from.

The statement that this particular compound (and closely related congeners) is presumably (but of course not "certainly") cancerogenic in humans is absolutely justified!

Peace! Murphy
 
Predicted Log P's (partition coefficients) courtesy of ChemDraw...
Duloxetine, 4.33. JWH-018, 5.68. (higher = more hydrophobic)

It's significantly more lipophilic (as Murphy said - just wanted some figures too). More opportunity for Bad Stuff to happen ;) .
 
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