Vegetarians...

[mariacallas]

Omnivore's Dilemma is an amazing read.

 

[Dtergent]

I'm not the sort of person that likes to push vegetarianism-- if people are curious they'll ask about it. I've been a veg for 4 years, and I couldn't even imagine going back now. If you have any questions about vegetarianism, please feel free to PM me.

In answer to your question, unless you're buying your meat at a farmer's market, organic, certified cruelty free, chances are it has come from a factory farm. Imagine the same principles being used in high-volume agriculture being used to 'grow' animals. I'm not going to go into any huge details, but there are many many sites around that will tell you more than you would ever want to know about the horrendous conditions that most livestock have to go through. Personally, if (and that's a big if) I were to go back to eating meat, I would make friends with hunters. Wild meat is the ultimate free-range meat, and you have the added ethical bonus of knowing that the animal lead an essentially normal, likely healthy, full life.

Here's some guy's list of reasons to be a vegetarian. Unfortunately, many of his claims and numbers aren't backed up, but with a bit of research you can form your own opinions.

Nice post. Pretty much how I feel about being vegetarian as well. No one has a monopoly on greatness-- not vegetarians, not omnivores, not meat fiends.

I am not about to say you can only be healthy on a vegetarian diet. But I suggest you try it out and see if it has any positive effects on your body, this will make it easier to shift.

In response to your query about factory farming, I do second the recommendations of The Omnivore's Dilemma. Try to get your hands on stuff by Michael Pollan. Here is his TED talk and also some of his views on the larger picture of the food situation in the US. Oh, and here is one more about the beef recall earlier this year.

Conditions for large-scale production of meat (most of what you get in US supermarkets) is generally pretty deplorable, which tends to happen when you try to produce en masse only a handful of species (whether it be plants or animals).

 

[Raas07]

Thank you for the responses.

I am very much into health and fitness; and compete in martial arts (TKD, Boxing) so a lot of protein is essential. Meat is brilliant for building the body, though if I am to eat meat I want to know there has been no animal cruelty involved.

i know i already said this but, buy ethically harvested meat and dairy!!!

Yes, this is my aim. To buy meat which is ethically harvested. Where animals have lived relatavely happy lives and have been killed humanely.

As conditions vary from country to country, farm to farm, it becomes difficult to know what has happened to the animal you are eating.

In answer to your question, unless you're buying your meat at a farmer's market, organic, certified cruelty free, chances are it has come from a factory farm.

So it appears that most general meat you buy, comes from a factory where conditions will inevitable be bad? And that it is organic, free range meat which is more ethical to buy...

who's talking about fat content?

anyway, I am so not interested in arguing with you about this. go eat a mushroom burger, hippy.

Why do you harbour resentment against vegetarians?

 

[Dave]

Generally, yeah. Free-range organic meat is more ethical, but there are still the environmental concerns. I don't have the exact numbers handy, but it's something like 4 people can be fed on an ovo-lacto-veg diet using the same space/resources as one person on a fully omnivorous diet, and something like 10 people if they're vegan.

Toast-- I have no beef against omnis, or you personally, and I can assure you that I'm no hippie. Your attitude reflects poorly on yourself, and doesn't lend credence to your opinions. Just because this is the internet, doesn't mean that you can't be civil.

Adding to the book recommendation list, The China Study is one of the most comprehensive comparative dietary studies. Period.

 

[toa$t]

Why do you harbour resentment against vegetarians?

i harbour no resentment against vegetarians. If you had read my posts, you would have seen that I tried not eating meat for a long time. and my girlfriend is veg. I do, however, harbour resentment towards people who say things that are simply not true.

 

[superelephant]

i harbour no resentment against vegetarians. If you had read my posts, you would have seen that I tried not eating meat for a long time. and my girlfriend is veg. I do, however, harbour resentment towards people who say things that are simply not true.

You are correct toast. I think they are incorporating other things besides protein content that in there opinion would make those "better".

 

[wArEhOuSePuNk]

theyre animals that serve one purpose( cows , chickens , pigs ) , not a person.

Free the cows man!!! 8)

 

[Student]

^

Yes, but they still have interests and are able to suffer, so if it is easy for us to consider those interests and prevent unnecessary suffering at little cost is it not our obligation to do so?


@ Raas

in the u.s. at least shop at co-ops and ask the fellow at the meat counter or an employee (for dairy anyway) they will know, especially if its local, also packages say if its free range, vegetarian fed, antibiotic/hormone free, etc. you can do research from there if you dont want to take the companies word for it

 

[wArEhOuSePuNk]

^ if they have to cram a few chickens into cages & pump steroids into them so i can have a $5.00 three piece , oh well

i promise ill shed a tear for them tonight.....

 

[Student]

well would your opinion change if it was you suffering so i could save a few insignificant dollars?

money doesn't mean shit, how does getting a few more pieces of paper justify a living things suffering do they have no value unless they are human? Or does the value of a living thing crumble in the wake of the all mighty dollar?

I could go on and on about the economic implications of just buying whatever is cheapest too but im too lazy. simply put you get payed less and have less just to pay a few cents less for a package of crackers.

its not about shedding tears for these animals its about doing something we are obligated to. I mean i know 'out of sight, out of mind' or whatever but im sure you do to so why not just do what is right when it is at such little cost to you?

its kind of like when an animal crosses the road when your driving you swerve so you dont hit it, it doesnt take much from you and it saves a life, isnt it your duty in such cases?

i mean is it really a bit deal to pay $6 for your nasty ass three peice at kfc instead of five so living things, like yourself, dont have to suffer?

you do realize you are a part of nature and are not above all living things right? That you cant live without all the other stuff that is living too? or would you like to continue kidding yourself?

sexism, racism, specieism: they are all synonymous with bullshit ideologies that try to justify an act that is clearly unethical

 

[toa$t]

its kind of like when an animal crosses the road when your driving you swerve so you dont hit it, it doesnt take much from you and it saves a life, isnt it your duty in such cases?

do you realize how many fatal car accidents are caused by people swerving to miss a squirrel?

 

[dirkduck]

do you realize how many fatal car accidents are caused by people swerving to miss a squirrel?

, this argument is sort of like "Do you realize how much health care costs rise due to people slipping on banana peels in the PRODUCE aisle?!?"

 

[toa$t]

no, it was signaling a bad analogy. i was attacking his argument without necessarily promoting my own.

 

[Coolio]

Seeing as free range beef and chicken have higher omega-3 fatty acid content than 99% of commercially available vegetable sources of fats, I don't want to hear anyone talking shit about the "bad fats" in meat. There are no bad fats in meat, unless the animal was grain-fed in which case it will have a lot of omega-6 fatty acids and little to no omega-3 fatty acids. There is no evidence that the saturated fats in meat when combined with a proper amount of dietary fiber and not combined with glycemic load causing carbohydrates have any ill effects on human health. There's also plenty of research into the specific saturated fatty acids in certain vegetable oils and animal fats, some of which have been found to be very important to our health indeed.

P.S. I still don't eat meat.

 

[Tronica]

For those interested, have a read of The ethics of what we eat

Less concerned with what people choose to eat per se, Singer and Mason make a case for how people's everyday food choices affect others' lives. They describe in vivid detail how applying industrial processing principles to animal husbandry has led to cheap foods whose cost savings occur at the expense of animals raised for profit and for product. Using Wal-Mart as an example, they lay out how huge retailers wield enormous power over prices and compel those far up the chain of food production and distribution to make unhelpful decisions. They hold up for admiration a Kansas family that has turned vegan so as not to participate in this particular destructive cycle of animal and human exploitation. They also thoughtfully and critically examine the ethical pros and cons of eating meat in any form. Urban dwellers far removed from the source of the foods they eat will find Singer and Mason's descriptions of food production more disturbing and violent than the quiet, attractive, plastic-wrapped displays in the local supermarket's pristine meat case.

I have been veg for 4 years, and now just beginning to become completely vegan, though this is a long process.

Once you decide that being involved in killing another living being - for no real reason - is wrong, then it's hard to turn back. I say 'no real reason' because, certainly where I live and with my knowledge, there are ample nutritious and delicious vegan alternatives to meat, fish, dairy and eggs. Melbourne must be one of the most vegan friendly cities in the world

However you can't apply that same logic to people who need these foods to survive. Eg. I'm still happy to do that charity thing where you buy a goat for a poor family in Africa. I doubt they have ready supplies of tofu, tempeh, lentils and legumes like I do!

By the way, I still applaud my family and friends that decide to buy free range eggs instead of caged, or organic chicken.... etc. It's all a continuum, and they are doing their bit for the animals and the environment. I just think being vegan is great for my mind and for my health and it makes the biggest difference, and I can, so why not?

 

[airforlife]

I don't understand this vegetarian stuff, I love meat, I need some form of it in almost every meal. Whether it's turkey, chicken, beef, fish, etc, I can't live without it.

 

[wArEhOuSePuNk]

^ i dont either. what are the benefits of being a vegetarian? Saving a few brainless animals because you feel bad for them? They would rather be weak & unhealthy as opposed to eating something that had parents.

Then they take vitamins & try to tell you its the same as eating meat.8)

 

[toa$t]

i lolled.

 

[wArEhOuSePuNk]

& have u ever seen those " raw food " only people? dude they seriously look like white Ethiopians.

 

[ebola?]

Saving a few brainless animals because you feel bad for them? They would rather be weak & unhealthy as opposed to eating something that had parents.

obvious troll is obvious.
tautological tautology is tautological.