Bupe Alcohol and Suboxone - Alcoholic Solutions for Higher BA With Sublingual Use

[Slum Survivor]

Just letting u know iv had my dr tell me to keep my dose under my tongue for round 30 min to an hour. That's great if it orks faster for u guys. I personally always even before I ever used vodka had trouble getting it to dissolve and such. Even with using liquid it takes me longer than most might.

I broke the saliva testr at thae bupe dr office once, I have dry mouth often. Even before ever getting on subs. Ihad dry mouth a lot. I vape a lot of good pot too. Have for a long time.

My first sub dr used to tell me I might as well keep it in an hour if I can since I'm paying cash and want to make sure it dissolves right and fully

I certainly know others spit it out a lot soon than I do. Whatever works for everyone. Just explaining why I do it so long.

^^^ Ok, you can keep using alcohol if you want, it certainly doesn't hurt anything.

But all of you holding the solution under your tongue for 30-45 minutes, IT IS COMPLETELY UNNECCESARY. Multiple studies have shown that the amount of time that you hold the solution under your tongue is irrelevant; within a few minutes, you've already achieved the full BA. I mean I can understand holding it for several minutes to be safe, but holding it for 30 minutes or more defeats the whole purpose of even using a liquid solution.

As I said, the main reason that a buprenorphine solution(alcohol or not) is so much better than the high dose tablet is the speed of absorption.

I mean, y'all can obviously do what you want, but I promise 5 minutes is plenty.

Also, if your using less than mg, then 0.5ml water is fine. The less water/liquid the better.

I use more liquid than that. I've tried less and seem to build up more mucus into my saliva goop. Sometimes when I accidentally use less than I wanted/thought I did I end up adding a little extra.

But other than that less is preferable I agree. Hate when I use more than id like. Makes it easy to accidentally swallow it. Yuk/burn!

Also any word on keeping it firmly on tongue like I asked a few times....

 

[dirzted]

^^^ Ok, you can keep using alcohol if you want, it certainly doesn't hurt anything.


As I said, the main reason that a buprenorphine solution(alcohol or not) is so much better than the high dose tablet is the speed of absorption.

I mean, y'all can obviously do what you want, but I promise 5 minutes is plenty.

Also, if your using less than mg, then 0.5ml water is fine. The less water/liquid the better.

The time i get but are you saying that a sort of "goop" like substance would work better than one that's closer to just normal water? Cuz i much prefer the goop since (to me) its easier to spread around/hold under my tongue and in that way it also dissolves faster.
Thanks for all the info btw it's very helpful, i understand that you shouldn't mess with your subs too much if your not in WD's (or anything else severe) but having to take something in direct contact with the inside of my mouth twice a day makes me want to have that something be used in the best possible manner.

-Thank you!

 

[Lorne???]

I don't know what you mean by "goop", but a small volume of water results in a rapid absorption(although the Tmax is still fucking 1.5-4h).

And what dose are you on? I know that the half-life/duration of buprenorphine is highly variable(half-life ranges from 12-48h, and has been reported as low as 8hr in rare cases), but the duration is also dose dependent, and I've yet to meet someone who wasn't held by a single, large dose. In fact some people actually dose EVERY OTHER DAY, which is crazy to me haha, but with it's long half lifeline most people) I can see how at steady-state that would work. Of course, these people universally take large doses, like a minimum of 16mg, and often 24, or even 32mg.

But with that said, many people find multiple small doses more enjoyable/euphoric than a single large dose(with buprenorphine, that is). That is part of the reason I prefer IV buprenorphine, it is MUCH more potent, and the half life is exponentially shorter(1.5-7h, mean 3-4h for IV, vs 12-48, mean 24-30) and so, if used properly, it is possible to keep your tolerance down, and occasionally enjoy your dose.

And slum survivor, I wasn't referring to pills, they can take forever to dissolve, but to liquid exclusively. Remember the main reason the BA increases is the rapid absorption from having it immediately available in liquid form.

 

[Lorne???]

The time i get but are you saying that a sort of "goop" like substance would work better than one that's closer to just normal water? Cuz i much prefer the goop since (to me) its easier to spread around/hold under my tongue and in that way it also dissolves faster.
Thanks for all the info btw it's very helpful, i understand that you shouldn't mess with your subs too much if your not in WD's (or anything else severe) but having to take something in direct contact with the inside of my mouth twice a day makes me want to have that something be used in the best possible manner.

-Thank you!

You should never being using more than 1ml of water, if your using less than 8mg, that is. I mean, 1.2ml would be ok, but the point is using the smallest amount of water possible, and then using an oral syringe to place the water directly under the tongue, hold it there for 3-4 minutes, then swallow. It's that simple.

to put it into perspective, a study using 0.7ml of water achieved a mean bioavailability of 47%, and subjects only held the solution for 3 minutes before swallowing.

 

[dirzted]

You should never being using more than 1ml of water, if your using less than 8mg, that is. I mean, 1.2ml would be ok, but the point is using the smallest amount of water possible, and then using an oral syringe to place the water directly under the tongue, hold it there for 3-4 minutes, then swallow. It's that simple.

to put it into perspective, a study using 0.7ml of water achieved a mean bioavailability of 47%, and subjects only held the solution for 3 minutes before swallowing.

I don't "need" the second dose as a way of staving off withdrawals or something, that's just how i've ended up taking em'. I do feel a slight kinda anxiety relief buzz type-a thing when i take each one, so it's just a way of having that addiction mechanism of: taking something=relief be fulfilled, so spreading it out over the day helped my cravings in the beginning since I'd always have something to look forward to. Haha that last part makes so much sense to me but i feel like if you weren't an addict you'd be like "wtf?" ahahahaha.

 

[Slum Survivor]

Not good to swallow subs. Its been brought up on here and by my dr. Best to spit out after. Liquid,alcohol, or not whatever. Just letting u know

I know ime its easier on my tummy and all just to spit it out after however long u choose to hold it in there and its absorbed not sure why... I'll post the info if I find it again.


To lorne... did u not see the comments and info bout the alcohol helping break thru mucus like trainspotter said? So both it being liquid and the alcohol come into play both in BA. I used to IV bupe too. I personally prefer the way I do it now. Not missing out on any of the "glow" or euphoria in comparison to when I IV'd it. Just less often w/d. But yeah u would be eliminating it faster leading to less build up. Makes me surprised I get the euphoria I do. Geuss it just low enough dosing.

Also let's stay on topic. Thread is about using alcohol to raise BA. easy to get off track. I'm guilty too. Just a reminder.

Maybe start a seperate thread for the water solution. Would probably get more attention.

I know I can say from exp that tossing a bit of vodka in with my sub when I take it makes it stronger/helps me save moresub w/o need for iv or anything.

Y'all have a good one!

 

[daveykronick]

I got my subutex in a water solution when I was in the hospital and I did notice a faster onset but I didn't really notice an increase in effects. This may be because I was taking .3mg 3x a day instead of 1.0mg all at once, intranasally. But if it's true that it doubles the potency then I should have had about 1.8mg in my system by the end of the day which would be just a bit smaller dose that the 1.0mg intranasally which feels like 2mg sub-l. I am trying this right now so we will see. This morning I fucked up and swallowed my subutex/mouth wash mixture after like 2-3 minutes and I don't feel shit from it even after taking .25 intranasal (my sinuses are wrecked) and .25 sub-l in the mouthwash. My original dose was 2mg in the mouthwash. If your theory is true that even holding it in for 2-3 minutes will work than I should be feeling my dose, which I am not. I have always held my subs for a minimum of 15 minutes. Generally I hold them for about 25-30 minutes these days. I used to hold them in for 45-60 minutes, every time with the ethanol solution. I guess I was just paranoid of losing even a small amount.

 

[Lorne???]

I don't "need" the second dose as a way of staving off withdrawals or something, that's just how i've ended up taking em'. I do feel a slight kinda anxiety relief buzz type-a thing when i take each one, so it's just a way of having that addiction mechanism of: taking something=relief be fulfilled, so spreading it out over the day helped my cravings in the beginning since I'd always have something to look forward to. Haha that last part makes so much sense to me but i feel like if you weren't an addict you'd be like "wtf?" ahahahaha.

Oh it makes perfect sense to me, man. Buprenorphine, at least when used for maintenance, and/or high tolerance, isn't recreational, but it clearly makes you feel better than being sober, and it definitely gives something to look forward to. You do a shot in the evening, it's nothing like doing dope, but you still look forward to that shot, and relaxing/eating whatever you do.

And "you're not supposed to swallow them" is silly to me. I mean, I could never bring myself to spit out drugs. And the same study I mentioned had subjects swallow afterwards.(I should really find that...) but if it makes you nauseated, then certainly I don't think it hurts to spit it out.

And I specifically said "water or alcohol". Whatever you use, 30 minutes isn't necessary.

Again, if you prefer alcohol, fine, but I think you're missing the point that studies have shown that water alone yields a mean bioavailability of 47%(range 40-65%, or thereabouts.)

Show me a study where an ethanol ic solution yields a mean bioavailability of well over 50%, and I'll drop the whole subject, and go hide in a hole!

 

[Crankinit]

Interestingly, I've been using Lorne's method of dissolving in water beforehand, and it seems to make a difference. I can't say how much, because I've just been dosing randomly throughout the day, 4 - 8mg at a time (I know, I should be more precise to figure out exactly what the difference is), but without even trying I've found that spare takeaways are starting to pile up, whereas before sometimes I'd take my full 24mg the old way and then still want more and end up dosing from the next day's take away dose. I've found the feeling has evened out a lot more as well, my theory is that it's possible that with the increase in BA, my 16 - 20mg a day is piling up to the equivalent of the maximum dose of 32 mg, meaning I'm effectively capped out 24/7. This is supported by the fact that unlike the first few times I tried it, I no longer get the quick bout of itching and almost immediate mood boost.

Of course this is just anecdotal speculation, but I do like the method. I'm going to try it with alcohol later on and see if I can reduce the dose even further. It would be nice to be able to build up a stash of TA's again, the way I used to have when I took holidays to get high.

Not good to swallow subs. Its been brought up on here and by my dr. Best to spit out after. Liquid,alcohol, or not whatever. Just letting u know

Why is this? I've always swallowed the saliva and leftovers because it still has a 13% oral BA, so you're still getting something out of whatever it is that doesn't absorb sublingually.

 

[The Doc.]

Don't ask me why I'm told the same thing but when I spat the saliva out I got way higher than when I swallowed it from the same dose.
I think it had to do with the naloxone in the sub's being absorbed through the stomach which is why usually after swallowing the saliva constipation eases up a bit and you may feel like you got a little worse before the sub kicked in making you feel better.

It also gives me stomach ache so why swallow it when it takes away from the high and hurts your stomach. I wonder what studies have been done on this. Slum survivor is right just spit it out your not spitting out or wasting drugs your just spitting out shit that won't get absorbed and mabeh a bit of bupe but as Lorne said within minutes most is absorbed anyways.


I've always wondered why Australia has so many people on huge doses of sub I've never met anyone there under 24mgs I may have met one at 16 but that's about it. I heard doctors there really like to start people out on huge doses like 24 28mgs whatever it may be but other places tend to stop patients around 12 or so when the effect starts to top out.

 

[JUNKHEADMAD2]

My suboxone doc told me to wash mouth out with mouth wssh that cotains db alcohol before takeing film and it will work much better. Havent tried it personally

 

[13FallenAngel13]

I have been on Suboxone for about 4 years now. Ranging from anywhere from 8 MG to 24 MG a day (depending on what doctor I was seeing at the time). Now I am down to 16 MG a day with the films b/c as we all know they no longer have the tablets. I absolutely hate the films and even though I have been on them forever I am having the worse trouble taking them now than when I first started. I seen the original post for the alcohol and the suboxone was for the tablets not the films so I joined this forum yesterday and messaged the guy that originally wrote it to see if he would be of any help about this. Nothing so far and it is almost time for me to take my next dose. Firstly taking the subs the way we were told to do so makes me feel as though I waste most of the burp when doing so. If I place it in my mouth up and down it either folds on its self or it gets stuck to my teeth or whatever else it can find Grrrrr...... Then I tried to take it and place it in my mouth sideways so it would not be anywhere near my teeth but okay so now it sticks to the bottom of my mouth or there is a lot of sliding and moving around from it. I have tried holding it in place for a minute before closing my mouth and I have also tried to switch between the two sides of the films to see if that helped the situation any better.... Well if it does I have yet to find it. I was on a lot of Kps and honestly most of the time I was so high that I didnt even think about how I took my subs and I always had extra so if I needed more it really didnt matter but now my meds are held by another person so no more using more than prescribed and getting extra when I need it. Also I get extremely tired and an annoying headache anywhere from 1 1/2-3 hrs after taking the subs. I just saw my Dr and he decides that since I have been on them so long and also just now really fully complaining about it that he thinks I have a freaking sinus infection or something so I am playing along with him for three months and using this stupid nose spray and ibprophen with antacids in them (b/c my stomach cannot handle anything but childrens Tylenol) and I am keeping a record of when I take my doses and how I feel so I have this to bring in with me showing him whats going on. I've tried also swallowing and not swallowing the crap afterwards and it just does not seem to matter much with the headaches and tiredness I have been drinking a ton of coffee to try and cope that way. Im just trying to find a better method of taking the Films that wont make me feel like shit afterwards and also that will be more effective as well so I can maybe take less of my dose than what I have been taking. I have done got my kps cut way back to 1 MG a day and regret it all the time. It was my choice to do it but I hate that decision. If the alcohol will work with the films and you guys have a way to do it so I do not mess it up I would be extremely grateful. I got on these to stop shooting up and yes it is an amazing way to live normal life but they are starting to make me sick I need help!!!! This shit aint rocket science but sometimes it feels that way. Scared to waste any of my meds to just try it when I have none to waste but honestly about to the point of just trying it. One last thing if they continue to make me feel sleepy and have a terrible headache would that mean that I am sensitive to it and could be switched to the Subtex for my maintenance? Also can any Dr write them that is already writing the subs? I dont know how to go about asking him to do this for me I felt that he should know what the deal is but obviously NOT!!! Any advice would be appreciated. And if you have a way for me to take the Films better in the meantime I am all ears.

Thanks for the help!

 

[Fire&Water]

If you're taking 16 mgs' you're dosing around 12 mgs' too much...
You're right, it aint rocket science.

 

[RTrain]

I use mouthwash before taking it, too. Seems to help but its not a huge difference. I have also used 151 proof liquor to help absorptio and I would say there is a difference but its not that huge. Probably around 20-40% stronger that way. Its really hard to say with Subs, since they hardly do anything in terms of agonist effects after 3 or 4 mgs. I know there has been studies showing it works and I my personal experience is that is does someting. If nothing else it hits faster, which is nice because I hate waking in the morning and feeling like crap for an hour until my Sub kicks in.

 

[RedHandedDenial]

They put u on a high dose because the pharmaceutical companies will sometimes pay doctors to do that because they in turn make more profit. I hate to sound like a conspiracy theorist but its true. A lot of doctors act as slaves to big pharma and do anything they want its all about.money they dont even care about helping people get off heroin. But yes back to dosing... i usually do about 1/2 a pill a day (sometimes 3/4 when im feeling extra stressed but usually not), since i shoot i get 100% of the drug, so since u only get about 50% of the drug when you take it sublingually this would be the equivalent of taking 8 mg a day... anymore than that is useless, u do not get any higher and all.it does is make u drone on and not feel the high anymore. You have to actually let the feeling dissipate to feel the high. Its like u have to feel sadness to feel happiness.. everything in life has that balance so just get used to it. Ive been doing sub for about 6 months now and.believe it or not i still get a little euphoric feeling when i wait about 18 hours between shots.. because i let the.bupe in my system completely out so that i am not feeling it anymore. Common sense. Wait til u are not.high to get high again and if u feel like u are not.high 4 hours after u just took a half an 8mg pill then u just have to remember it is all in ur head... and wait a long time before taking the other half (at least 12 hours but i would wait 30 if i took it by mouth)

 

[Fire&Water]

Yer starting to get it...Dam the river, work yer' way down & use it less often.
Remember, a third of a mg. is what is administered for pain (Buprenex) double that, only works better once er' twice...

 

[dirzted]

Something funny but I'd thought I'd share it with you guys:
In the new "rebuildable" electronic cigarettes, the wicking material (for the "ejuice") used has been up to much debate-
The new "thing" to do is to use 100%organic japanese cotton because it absorbs more juice faster, i didn't realize until now but it really works alot better with the alcohol method for subs- you don't need to wait as long for the cotton to absorb the solution, and it seems to me that it allows for a more efficient absorption rate because you the solution can disperse more quickly under you tongue, it just seems to be a more effective "carrier" if you will of the sub solution.

Not a huge difference, but regardless if it gives you more effect or not, it does make it easier to take your subs when using this method just because of how fast the japanese cotton wicks... give it a shot and tell me what you think

 

[Hammilton]

You're wicking dissolved suboxone into cotton and putting that under your tongue? That's a terrible idea. You'd be far better off putting the suboxone solution under your tongue. Why would you want something that's going to hold onto it? Are you going to wring it out? Lol

 

[dirzted]

You're wicking dissolved suboxone into cotton and putting that under your tongue? That's a terrible idea. You'd be far better off putting the suboxone solution under your tongue. Why would you want something that's going to hold onto it? Are you going to wring it out? Lol

Lol dude i assume you've never tried doing this with more than like a quarter of a roxanne pill before because yaaaaaaaa right you were able to hold that under your tongue with ease ahahahaha- i personally think it makes it easier to not swallow as much and therefore get more of your dose, biggest thing was that i used to have to wait a while to get a pea sized piece of regular cotton to get fully saturated with the solution, and being impatient i'd always hafta use like 3 different cottons to get a full 12 mg dose (OG dose 16mg, hate on it all you want) lol

so ya

 

[The Doc.]

Cotton actually isn't needed all you have to do is dissolve the Suboxone in water then put the solution under your tounge. It works better than a pill under the tounge and if you swish with alcohol before taking it then the bioavailability is up there with intranasal consumption. The pill in solid form is basically useless under your tounge. If you do put the pill under solid it needs to be made into a paste with your tounge mixed with saliva then you move your tounge around in the paste getting as much as possible into your veins under the tounge.