Bupe Alcohol and Suboxone - Alcoholic Solutions for Higher BA With Sublingual Use

[darriensmum]

I'm currently prescribed 16mg of subs. I normally take 12 mg, due to an awkward situationI'm in..I've been semi trying thethee alcohol solution, using mouthwash before my dose and tbh I feel better taking 4mgs this way than 8 normally. My question is, I feel better mentally, and mostly physically aside from my nose won't quit running....I thought it was allergies at first, but I'm think it's from the lower dose bc I also get like the cold sweat on my face with a cold nose and sweaty hands. Any ideas?

 

[darriensmum]

First experiment with cotton balls and mouth wash (it's all I had). I guess I didn't make them big enough bc I needed three cotton balls to soak up 1ml/4mgs. I definitely need less liquid bc I'm struggling keeping everything under my tongue, smaller mouth? I'll let you know how it goes, hopefully I didn't goof up to much and lose the sub in the

I'm a bit worried that I wasted quit a bit, I had swallow a couple times to keep the cotton from going rogue on me. It's too hard to tell by taste bc the mouthwash numbed my mouth up. I do a bit of ear ringing but who knows. Any help would be appreciated

 

[dirzted]

First experiment with cotton balls and mouth wash (it's all I had). I guess I didn't make them big enough bc I needed three cotton balls to soak up 1ml/4mgs. I definitely need less liquid bc I'm struggling keeping everything under my tongue, smaller mouth? I'll let you know how it goes, hopefully I didn't goof up to much and lose the sub in the

I'm a bit worried that I wasted quit a bit, I had swallow a couple times to keep the cotton from going rogue on me. It's too hard to tell by taste bc the mouthwash numbed my mouth up. I do a bit of ear ringing but who knows. Any help would be appreciated

Tear off like a 2-3 pea sized piece of cotton so that when you squish it together to make it dense it's about the size of a single pea

I do this to make sure i have enough cuz it's really hard to tell if you have the right amount with plain loose cotton, once you squish it up its wayyyy easier to standardize. You probably already did this but definitely do one ball at a time.

Other than that I would try just putting a couple drops less (20 drops is about 1ml, so try and bring it down to like 15-16 and that could also help).

 

[Blue Balls]

Would this alcohol dissolve thing work with Zubsolv?

 

[Mr.Scagnattie]

^^

Yes. Zubsolv and Suboxone have the exact same active ingredients.

 

[cg9256]

I dont understand why you guys use the cotton? why not just drip the solution right under the toungue

 

[dirzted]

I dont understand why you guys use the cotton? why not just drip the solution right under the toungue

its just easier to keep the cotton under your tongue than just raw solution, probably get more absorbed because of that too.

 

[Blue Balls]

^^

Yes. Zubsolv and Suboxone have the exact same active ingredients.

Thanks. Being weened by my doc. Got switched from 12mg/day generic sub to the 5.7mg/day zub this week. Not adjusting well, feel like crap, the usual bad stuff. What is best way to get most out of zub - dissolve with alcohol, snort or something else? Haven't touched a needle in years, would not even know how to cook up zubs. And have too much I care about now to be reckless, so I'd really like to avoid going that direction. Thank you for your help

 

[dirzted]

Thanks. Being weened by my doc. Got switched from 12mg/day generic sub to the 5.7mg/day zub this week. Not adjusting well, feel like crap, the usual bad stuff. What is best way to get most out of zub - dissolve with alcohol, snort or something else? Haven't touched a needle in years, would not even know how to cook up zubs. And have too much I care about now to be reckless, so I'd really like to avoid going that direction. Thank you for your help

Just read the first page of the thread you're commenting in

 

[sinclair1984]

that it does. made that mistake a few years ago

 

[dirzted]

For anyone wondering since I've seen this question asked like 50times in this thread, mouthwash (preferably Listerine Original, the orange kind) DOES work FINE. I use this everyday just because alcohol is pretty sketchy to use in my living quarters and I'd assume it is for most people who are recently clean and on subs ("my breath smells like rum because i'm improving the bioavailability of my maintenance drug for greater craving-reduction officer!" - PO: "uh huh") But anyway that brand of Listerine has 26.9% alcohol in it so it still works pretty damn well, I have used rum and compared the two and honestly the difference is probably existent but it wasn't enough for me to go home about.

Again, if nothing else, just wash your mouth with the Listerine and hold a tad under your tongue while you dose, still works better than nothing

(even though i strongly suggest using cotton makes keeping the solution in your mouth a fucking shit ton easier)

 

[The Doc.]

Hahaha I'm gonna say that to my P.O. next time I come in smelling like rum at 9an

 

[Mynameisopium]

I assume this alcohol/cotton method should also work with strips?

 

[dirzted]

I assume this alcohol/cotton method should also work with strips?

Yep.

 

[Slum Survivor]

How important is it for the peice of strip to stay in place on your tongue w/o moving it?

I find that especially the smaller peices like .5 off a 8mg strip, are hard to keep in place sometimes after I put the vodka in my mouth.

Does just having the alcohol around your tongue and underneath increase absorbtion.

Sometimes I notice that partially dissolved peices of sub film are built up around my gum line or the bottom of my mouth after a while of waiting, does that = lost potential absorption? Does the strip need to stay firmly where it was originally placed on the tongue?

I've been doing this for a number of months now... just a small peice of sub on the bottom of the tongue after cleaning my mouth with hot water. Then adding a small amount of vodka and close my mouth and try to keep everything in place. Then spit after. Never swallow suboxone, dr told me and I've read it causes probs. Plus who wants to swallow all that mxture in the mornng especially.

I'm geussing it doesn't only absorb thru the tongue but all over the mouth right?
Either way I do notice a BA increase with what I'm doing. Good way to save subs glad j found it.

Sry for the long msg just trying to be clear.

 

[Lorne???]

For the record: YOU DO NOT NEED ALCOHOL TO INCREASE THE BA OF BUPRENORPHINE. Simply dissolving it in water will suffice. As I have posted before in other threads, this method(6partsevensmethod, as it is so known) is outdated. Water alone dramatically increases the bioavailability of suboxone, as attested to by multiple studies.

For anyone still struggling to believe that, just look at Zubsolv. Zubsolv contains NO alcohol, yet, the BA is so much higher. You need only 5.4mg(or something along those lines) to give the same effect as 8mg. This alone is proof that alcohol is unnecessary, since dissolving in a liquid solution(ethanolic or not) makes suboxone 1.5-2x stronger; Zubsolve is about 1.75x as potent, which firmly crushes the idea that alcohol is necessary for the BA increase.(BTW, Zubsolv is comparable to a liquid buprenorphine solution because it dissolves much faster than suboxone did, resulting in enchanced absorption.

Hopefully this helps people out, since holding damn ethanol under your tongue sucks for dear life...

 

[dirzted]

For the record: YOU DO NOT NEED ALCOHOL TO INCREASE THE BA OF BUPRENORPHINE. Simply dissolving it in water will suffice. As I have posted before in other threads, this method(6partsevensmethod, as it is so known) is outdated. Water alone dramatically increases the bioavailability of suboxone, as attested to by multiple studies.

For anyone still struggling to believe that, just look at Zubsolv. Zubsolv contains NO alcohol, yet, the BA is so much higher. You need only 5.4mg(or something along those lines) to give the same effect as 8mg. This alone is proof that alcohol is unnecessary, since dissolving in a liquid solution(ethanolic or not) makes suboxone 1.5-2x stronger; Zubsolve is about 1.75x as potent, which firmly crushes the idea that alcohol is necessary for the BA increase.(BTW, Zubsolv is comparable to a liquid buprenorphine solution because it dissolves much faster than suboxone did, resulting in enchanced absorption.

Hopefully this helps people out, since holding damn ethanol under your tongue sucks for dear life...

But i thought it dilated blood vessels are altered the drugs crossing at the BBB... or some shit like that idk much about pharmacology but i did read quite alot about why alcohol specifically helped the BA of subs.

other than that i gotta say i figured that just having it in a solution had to have made the BA better on its own, but i do notice a significant difference between alc and non-alc.
convince me that's just placebo so i can stop putting listerine under my tongue twice a day.

 

[Lorne???]

^^^ Well unfortunately, the placebo effect can be quite powerful, but I will try ".

The most important thing to remember though, is that zubsolv DOES NOT CONTAIN alcohol, yet it is nearly twice as strong. Sixpartseven himself said that the ethanol solution made subixone 50-70% stronger; yet Zubsolv, without using alcohol, is already 70% stronger. So logic only dictates, if Zubsolv gets the full BA increase without alcohol, then alcohol is unnecessary for the BA increase. And indeed, studies have compared suboxone tablets to buprenorphine /nalaxone oral solution(without alcohol) and concludes that the liquid is 1.5-2x as strong as suboxone.

If that isn't clear, then simply check the studies yourself. Liquid buprenorphine is ALWAYS 1.5-2x as potent as suboxone tablets. Zubsolv is also 1.5-2x as potent, without alcohol. Therefore, once again, the only logical conclusion is that ethanol is completely irrelevant to the BA increase achieved via liquid.

BTW, as for alcohol "dilating" blood vessels under the tongue, well, even if that were true, it would be irrelevant. Contrary to popular belief, sublingual medication does not absorb directly into blood vessels; rather it absorbs into the mucous membranes, where it is then slowly released into the circulation.

This is why sublingual takes so damn long to kick in. With most drugs, sublingual has a slower onset than oral. (I.E: oral Xanax tmax= roughly 1.5h, vs sublingual Xanax Tmax 2.5h)

And I doubt a slight dilation in blood vessels would facilitate better absorption anyway...

But seriously, trust me, YOU DO NOT NEED ALCOHOL, at this point it is completely debunked, and makes no sense.

That is all!!!?

 

[Slum Survivor]

Stop arguing... go do a little research hot head. It was originally going to be made in an alcoholic solution back before they made the sub tablets.

Alcohol raises BA. Also a lot of factors besides alcohol in play when it comes to how it absorbs

Dr j and fda both have info u can search for on this. I just happened to find a paper by the gov about a month ago talking about how it would be easier to script out tabs for subL than an alcohol/ethanol - bupe solution for opiate maintenence.

I mean duh... why would they have menthol in zubsolv. Its the same concept as the alcohol. It raises BA.

Don't get cocky when u r wrong or accuse people of having placebo effects that's very offensive. I almost reported the post.

Btw I've been doing this for a while now. Have had times w/o alcohol. After a couple days the difference is obvious if not sooner , than if I had used alcohol

Just quit "debunking" the theory that alcohol raises BA. This method saved me $100's due to needing less each dose.

 

[dirzted]

^^^ Well unfortunately, the placebo effect can be quite powerful, but I will try ".

The most important thing to remember though, is that zubsolv DOES NOT CONTAIN alcohol, yet it is nearly twice as strong. Sixpartseven himself said that the ethanol solution made subixone 50-70% stronger; yet Zubsolv, without using alcohol, is already 70% stronger. So logic only dictates, if Zubsolv gets the full BA increase without alcohol, then alcohol is unnecessary for the BA increase. And indeed, studies have compared suboxone tablets to buprenorphine /nalaxone oral solution(without alcohol) and concludes that the liquid is 1.5-2x as strong as suboxone.

If that isn't clear, then simply check the studies yourself. Liquid buprenorphine is ALWAYS 1.5-2x as potent as suboxone tablets. Zubsolv is also 1.5-2x as potent, without alcohol. Therefore, once again, the only logical conclusion is that ethanol is completely irrelevant to the BA increase achieved via liquid.

BTW, as for alcohol "dilating" blood vessels under the tongue, well, even if that were true, it would be irrelevant. Contrary to popular belief, sublingual medication does not absorb directly into blood vessels; rather it absorbs into the mucous membranes, where it is then slowly released into the circulation.

This is why sublingual takes so damn long to kick in. With most drugs, sublingual has a slower onset than oral. (I.E: oral Xanax tmax= roughly 1.5h, vs sublingual Xanax Tmax 2.5h)

And I doubt a slight dilation in blood vessels would facilitate better absorption anyway...

But seriously, trust me, YOU DO NOT NEED ALCOHOL, at this point it is completely debunked, and makes no sense.

That is all!!!��

Just quit "debunking" the theory that alcohol raises BA. This method saved me $100's due to needing less each dose.

OK although i tend to lean more towards believing Lorne since i've read a lot of his posts and they seem to be very well researched, that completely fucks my mind over.

I am worried about putting Listerine under my tongue everyday, so i will try with water to see if i notice a difference.
And although the placebo effect isn't real physiologically, mentally it is, and if i feel more with the alcohol (even if it is not real) then i will just continue to do it that way anyway since i will just be making myself feel my sub more.

Dude wtf is the human brain