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    Heroin vs. Nicotine 
    #1
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    So all the time I see anti-drug war people quote the fact that nicotine is as addictive as heroin. I have even seen plenty of citations by prominent researchers in addiction making this claim.
    My quesiton is are they all fucking high?!?!
    Maybe its just me and the people I know but everyone who does H seems to have cravings to do more even if they don't really like it. While people seem to be able to smoke cigarretes occasionally without any cravings whatsoever.
    Also as far as I can tell the reason nicotine is judged as addictive as heroin is that they have similar numbers for succesfull quiting. This seems to completly ignore the fact that cigarettes are a socially accepted drug that you can bum off a stranger in the street while even meth fiends (stupidly) won't touch heroin. So the heroin user is countinuing to use against considerable social and legal pressure. This has to count for something.
    Do other people have similar experience with heroin vs. nicotine?
     

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    #2
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    nicotine is more phsyiclay addicitve
    heroin is more psychologicaly addictive...
    but in the real world this is pretty worthless
     

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    #3
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    NICOTINE is more physically addictive than HEROIN????????HUH.....it is more MENTALLY addictive than H but not as PHYSICALLY, no way in hell...
    comparing NICOTINE withdrawal to HEROiN withdrawal is simply not even worth comparing...the reason most cannot quit NICOTINE is like said above, it is cheap and on every street corner and is of course LEGAL....
     

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    #4
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    [quote]Originally posted by purkinje:
    nicotine is more phsyiclay addicitve
    heroin is more psychologicaly addictive...
    but in the real world this is pretty worthless

    wtf are you smoking?
    Yes, it seems the way this has come about is by comparing statistics with those who quit and stay 'clean'. Another thought is you are surrounded w/ cigarettes\tobacco nonstop all day everyday. You can buy a pack of cigarettes anywhere and there's always people smoking so I would think that would be a hard addiction to quit w/ all the negative reinforcements surrounding you.
     

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    #5
    Heart
    I know for a fact that nicotine is definately not addictive. A friend of a friend who works for an un-named tobacco company gave me the inside scoop, for real. The media just pretends tobacco is addictive because all the news reporters get perks from the doctors who make up stuff like lung cancer, it's all a conspiracy, I swear to god! I mean when I run out of cigarttes i don't necessarily need tobacco i could smoke a clove of a menthal and be fine, i just smoke because of i like the feeling of smoke going into my lungs. There is a little know theory that all addictions are 100% placeblo effect you can read that on some web site that I found doing a net searct for "remeron".
    And Herion is only addictive if you shoot it in you arms, legs, or neck. I shoot 8-9 times a week in my finger and toes and the only problem that I have is a staff infection about once or twice a year, nothing you can't deal with; but I supose that I counter ack my smack with a few cigaretts diped in PCP about once of twice a month.
    I am 43 years old and I have been doing drugs since I was 17. I just got a computer and I am suprised at how little you kid know about drugs.
    whell that took a long time to type(2 hours) but I hope that it shed light onto your question.
    Your welcome.
     

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    #6
    Bluelight Crew negrogesic's Avatar
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    There is a slight connection between cigarretes and opiates in that acetaldehyde, which is found in cigarettes, can react with dopamine to form TIQ, which is an opiate agonist.
     

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    #7
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    Can somebody ban this troll?
     

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    #8
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    clove cigarettes have nicotine in them too you know. Abra was talking about HEROINandCANDY not the person directly above him, just to save feelings.
     

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    #9
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    Yes,H&C needs to go.
     

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    #10
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    ciggs are addictive as hell when i dont get my nic. i turn into a violent asshole and start twitching...1 time i was fenning for nicotine so bad i sucked on the burnt cigg buts in the ash tray...i hardly know any1 that smoke occasionaly but i know ppl that occasionaly use oxycontin(pretty much the same thing as herion) but i believe ciggs are alot more compulsive than herion./
     

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    #11
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    In my opinion nicotine is far more addictive then herion. As is the case with caffine...
     

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    #12
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    [quote]Originally posted by jonnypotseed:
    oxycontin(pretty much the same thing as herion)
    not quite man
     

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    #13
    Bluelight Crew JB's Avatar
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    I've tried H it felt alright but have no craveings. No desire to do it again.
    Nicotine and ciggs do fuck all and feel nasty but I'm addicted to them
    Work the rest out for your self.
     

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    #14
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    Heroin and nicotine are completely different.
    I can go a lot longer without heroin than I could a cigarette. However, when I quit cigarettes I don't get physically ill and want to die for a week.
    It's not even worth comparing their addictions. It serves no real purpose other than for people to come up with ridiculous anti-smoking propaganda.
    My response to the propaganda is "heroin isn't as addictive as you believe."
     

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    #15
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    I can't belive that you guys belive the governments progandah.
     

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    #16
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    It's government propaganda
     

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    #17
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    anyone who thinks cigs are harder to kick than junk
    have obviously never been addicted to the shit
     

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    #18
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    Just a thought, why do so many people who say that heroin isn't THAT addictive also have (or have had) very long-lasting opiate habits? In reality, it probably isn't as addictive as a lot of people think, but how many junkies have thought this and even still do? Is it denial or is there really such a thing as "non-pathological recreational abuse of heroin"?
     

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    #19
    Bluelight Crew JB's Avatar
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    [quote]Originally posted by cheeky_half:
    anyone who thinks cigs are harder to kick than junk
    have obviously never been addicted to the shit

    If you're stupid enough to use heroin regualy enough to go through withdrawal and become addicted you are plain stupid.
    No drug is impossible for you to controll your self on.
    No drug will make you do it again and agian unless you are weak enough to have to hit that dope spot everyday.
    If you manage your habit there is no reason to ever go through withdrawal or physical addiction to heroin. You know it will happen so why not just controll your self.
    Ciggs on the other hand, I was 13 and stupid and have had a habit for years smoking everyday. I'm sure if I really tried I could give up but the difference is you should be able to not have to get to that point on heroin.
     

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    #20
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    Johny, everything you said is entirely ignorant.
    But I guess we shouldn't expect much from someone that can't even spell "control" correctly.
    Opiates alter brain chemistry. The brain can send impulses that override or at the very least rival conscious desires. It's a well established and proven fact. Opiates effect the decision making processes of the brain. That's also a well established a proven fact, which ties into what I said before. And the entire psychological experience can be enough to change previous concerns about addiction and health. And again, that's a well established and proven fact.
    It really has nothing to do with being weak.
    And it's particularly sad someone who knowingly became addicted to a substance that kills 400,000 Americans every year is not only going to call other addicts "weak", but is going to sit here and say they merely haven't tried to quit and that's why they continue using.
    Oh.. and then partake in another substance that evidence keeps suggesting causes long-term damage to the brain.
    Get real.
     

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    #21
    Bluelight Crew JB's Avatar
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    [quote]Originally posted by SovietContin:
    Johny, everything you said is entirely ignorant.
    But I guess we shouldn't expect much from someone that can't even spell "control" correctly.
    I apologize for my dyslexia.
    [quote]
    Opiates alter brain chemistry. The brain can send impulses that override or at the very least rival conscious desires. It's a well established and proven fact. Opiates effect the decision making processes of the brain. That's also a well established a proven fact, which ties into what I said before. And the entire psychological experience can be enough to change previous concerns about addiction and health. And again, that's a well established and proven fact.
    It really has nothing to do with being weak.
    What you are talking about doesn't set in until you are addicted. Why let it gat that far in the first place. Now that's ignorant.
    For a first time user the impulses are not so bad that you just can't stop using. They may not want to stop using though (and that's what's really stupid not the fact that I can't spell)
    [quote]
    And it's particularly sad someone who knowingly became addicted to a substance that kills 400,000 Americans every year is not only going to call other addicts "weak", but is going to sit here and say they merely haven't tried to quit and that's why they continue using.
    Yes I'm fucking weak I smoke ciggs and it's stupid. You inject a highly cut drug you buy on the street.
    Think about it. I'm certainly no worse.
    [quote]
    Oh.. and then partake in another substance that evidence keeps suggesting causes long-term damage to the brain.
    Get real
    Which substance would this be then?
    I don't use anything but marijuana and alcohol anymore.
    You get real.
    Hey everyone don't listen to me I put two ll's on the end of a word while Soviet uses a spell checker every time just incase someone might see him spell a word wrongly I apologize for my dyslexia.
     

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    #22
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    Johny Boy, while the statement that being a drug addict is due to weakness may be technically true given a wacked out enough definition of weak (I am not sure there is any reasonable one for personal strenght) it is still grossly misleading. Sure you might define week as something like being addicted to drugs, or doing things you know are bad for you (in which case you are weak) but the implication involved in this statement is clearly that somehow drug users have less strength of charachter (if this means anything) than the average individual.
    First of all most drug users seem to have much more troubled lives (before their drug use) than non-users. I bet if we ran a survey on BL a ridiculous percent of the posters would come from really fucked up families. Most peoples implications in the word weak are of an essential charachter flaw, i.e. if most others went through the same situation they wouldn't end up this way. Do you have any evidence whatsoever to back up this sort of claim.
    Secondly why do people who don't do drugs not do drugs? Its because society, parents, friends whatever tells them not to. It sure as hell isn't because of unbiased research into the subject. So if these people are not doing drugs merely because of peer pressure are they more or less weak than those who choose to do drugs?
    Why am I even bothering going into those arguments. Unless you actually define these vague words you are using you aren't doing anything essentially differnt than saying "drug users are fuckers".
    What the fuck does "No drug is impossible to control mean?" Many people in fact do not control their drug use. Is this some sort of philosophical belief that nature is fundamentally non-deterministic? Argghh nothing in your post means anything!!!
    Soviet are you implying that nicotine (or other substances in tobacco) has been implicated in long term brain damage? If so do you have a source?
    [ 13 August 2002: Message edited by: quale ]
     

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    #23
    Bluelight Crew JB's Avatar
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    [quote]Originally posted by quale:
    Johny Boy, while the statement that being a drug addict is due to weakness may be technically true given a wacked out enough definition of weak (I am not sure there is any reasonable one for personal strength) it is still grossly misleading.
    If my life was full enough with joy and constructive outlets would I do drugs? Fuck no! I do them to fill a gap, as do most people. They fill my weakness.
    I would much rather know my weakness and strengths then blank out anything bad and just focus on the good point or else how do we developed.
    [quote]
    Sure you might define week as something like being addicted to drugs, or doing things you know are bad for you (in which case you are weak) but the implication involved in this statement is clearly that somehow drug users have less strength of character (if this means anything) than the average individual.
    No, I'm not saying that. I am saying I have got myself into an addiction I accept it and I know I'm weak for not fighting it for my health's sake. Every addict knows what they are doing isn't good for them but they make an excuses to allow them to give into it.
    [quote]
    First of all most drug users seem to have much more troubled lives (before their drug use) than non-users. I bet if we ran a survey on BL a ridiculous percent of the posters would come from really fucked up families. Most peoples implications in the word weak are of an essential character flaw, i.e. if most others went through the same situation they wouldn't end up this way. Do you have any evidence whatsoever to back up this sort of claim.
    Never said it was wrong, but anyone in an addiction knows it's not helping them.
    But most choose to carry on.
    You can only be what you where molded into but that doesn't mean you have to just give up and not fight.
    [quote]
    Secondly why do people who don't do drugs not do drugs? Its because society, parents, friends whatever tells them not to. It sure as hell isn't because of unbiased research into the subject. So if these people are not doing drugs merely because of peer pressure are they more or less weak than those who choose to do drugs?
    3rd option could be they just don't need them or find them fun.
    [quote]
    Why am I even bothering going into those arguments. Unless you actually define these vague words you are using you aren't doing anything essentially different than saying "drug users are fuckers".
    You bother because you feel I'm saying something that hurts your pride. Why do you feel stung.
    All I've said is Heroin addicts aren't pathetic, they can help themselves if they want to. Its not an addiction to far. There is nothing wrong with drug use but using to the point where you know you are going to feel awful for days is stupid when you could just detox regularly enough to avoid severe addiction or withdrawal.
    People get to defensive when you mention things that touch home closely to their lives.
    All I try and do is provoke thought, I'm not trying to preach or teach.
    I always strive to try and find a different side to the coin, not only to broaden my own horizons but if I say something which triggers discussion negative or positive I feel I have done something worthwhile.
    [quote]
    What the fuck does "No drug is impossible to control mean?" Many people in fact do not control their drug use. Is this some sort of philosophical belief that nature is fundamentally non-deterministic? Argghh nothing in your post means anything!!!
    What I mean is drug user are well aware of what they are getting into and they still do it.
    They are well aware that banging heroin everyday will give them a nasty addiction and physical withdrawal symptoms.
    What I mean by weak was if they didn't want to get addicted or go through withdrawal they could have stopped using. Heroin didn't just take over their mind and rid them of free will. They chose to give into the urges and accept that they will become addicted/withdraw/struggle to control their addiction and maybe die.
    Seems fair enough assumption
    What I'm saying is, a heroin addict must at some point decide to become an addict (consciously or sub consciously) It doesn't just happen.
    (I spell checked your post too so Soviet doesn't have to heheh )
    [ 13 August 2002: Message edited by: Johny Boy ]
     

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    #24
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    [quote]
    If my life was full enough with joy and constructive outlets would I do drugs? Fuck no! I do them to fill a gap, as do most people. They fill my weakness.
    Sure I grant that people do drugs only because they are lacking in some regard. I still alledge this is one of those deceptive an perverse definitions of week (just because one posseses weaknesses i.e. is not perfect in no way implies they are weak in the normal sense of the term). First of all it seems EVERYONE is week under this definition. Can you name someone without a weakness, or even someone who hasn't done something (and usually a pattern of things) which were not in their absolute best interest because of these weaknesses?
    If you are alledging drug addiction is a weakness everyone would agree with you. However, you are implying something much stronger, a relative deficit in charachter, when you alledge drug users are weak.
    [quote]
    No, I'm not saying that. I am saying I have got myself into an addiction I accept it and I know I'm weak for not fighting it for my health's sake. Every addict knows what they are doing isn't good for them but they make an excuses to allow them to give into it.
    As does everyone who eats at McDonalds. Are they week as well?
    [quote]
    3rd option could be they just don't need them or find them fun.
    Unlikely. First of all most of these people haven't tried drugs at all (especially if you exclude MJ and hallucinagens). Second of all suicide is like the second leadin causes of death in the 18-24 year old age bracket. 13% of the population is clinically depressed, 5% chronically so, I imagine many others are deeply dissatisfied with their lives. So I really don't think it is accurate to suggest that they just aren't doing drugs b/c they are psychologically A ok.
    [quote]
    You bother because you feel I'm saying something that hurts your pride. Why do you feel stung.
    All I've said is Heroin addicts aren't pathetic, they can help themselves if they want to. Its not an addiction to far. There is nothing wrong with drug use but using to the point where you know you are going to feel awful for days is stupid when you could just detox regularly enough to avoid severe addiction or withdrawal.
    People get to defensive when you mention things that touch home closely to their lives.
    First of all you didn't hurt my pride with these remarks at all, I just encounter these sort of deceptive (usually unitentionally) attacks on groups of people so often and they piss me off. I asked why I bothered with these arguments because until you can come up with a reasonable definition of week in terms of commonly agreed upon terms (you and I clearly don't have a similar notion of week apparently) you haven't actually said anything. It is no differnt than if you called drug users "blah" but "blah" has very bad conotations in most peoples mind. You still haven't made a statement.
    Your doing it again with that shit about "people get defensive" crap. Now rather than actually argue about the issues you are trying to impinge my arguments by suggesting that they are based in some sort of psychological denial. Even if this were true it is irrelevant to the correctness of the argument.
    [quote]
    What I'm saying is, a heroin addict must at some point decide to become an addict (consciously or sub consciously) It doesn't just happen.
    Not really. I mean you can always take just one more shot etc.. etc.. There is no obvious bright line between recreational use and addiction. If shooting heroin once a month is okay why not 1.5 times etc.. etc..
    [quote]
    Heroin didn't just take over their mind and rid them of free will.
    That is an interesting question and not altogether clear. I mean heroin does fairly directly trigger reward centers in the brain and in so doing changes your brains wiring (as does everything you experience but heroin probably more intensely than most things in everyday life). It could quite reasonably be claimed it alters *who* you are. Maybe the new person has free will (another term I really don't understand) but now you are all bogged down in who choose to become and addict etc. etc..
    This is all irrelevant anyway. The entire thrust of my eariler post was that you are implying that drug addicts are somehow essentially lacking in charachter that the average person has. You make no response to my point that you have NO EVIDENCE that a non drug addict would not have become one if he was in similar circumstances. Whether this is what you meant by weak or not it is how people interpret it and it is these kind of disparagement that so easily (though quite wrongly) let people lock up drug users and throw away the key instead of treating them like human beings with a problem, i.e. it doesn't happen to people like me.
     

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    #25
    Bluelight Crew JB's Avatar
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    [quote]
    Sure I grant that people do drugs only because they are lacking in some regard. I still allege this is one of those deceptive an perverse definitions of week (just because one possesses weaknesses i.e. is not perfect in no way implies they are weak in the normal sense of the term). First of all it seems EVERYONE is week under this definition. Can you name someone without a weakness, or even someone who hasn't done something (and usually a pattern of things) which were not in their absolute best interest because of these weaknesses?
    Yes my definition of weak does include everyone because no one is perfect. You can be strong in one way and weak in another. That's a standard. I don't believe in Idols, everyone is struggling to live their life how ever they can. If heroins your thing fine, I'm sure some people can even bang it every day and still live totally normal lives. Why am I perverse for believing that everyone is human.
    [quote]If you are alleging drug addiction is a weakness everyone would agree with you. However, you are implying something much stronger, a relative deficit in character, when you allege drug users are weak.
    I'm saying no ones perfect. big deal.
    [quote]
    Unlikely. First of all most of these people haven't tried drugs at all (especially if you exclude MJ and hallucinogens). Second of all suicide is like the second leading causes of death in the 18-24 year old age bracket. 13% of the population is clinically depressed, 5% chronically so, I imagine many others are deeply dissatisfied with their lives. So I really don't think it is accurate to suggest that they just aren't doing drugs b/c they are psychologically A ok.
    Is it too much to believe that some people enjoy sobriety?
    [quote]
    Not really. I mean you can always take just one more shot etc.. etc.. There is no obvious bright line between recreational use and addiction. If shooting heroin once a month is okay why not 1.5 times etc.. etc..
    Do as much as you want just try and avoid getting physical withdrawal symptoms or a nasty addiction. 1 or 1.5 could be considered a habit but I'm sure it would be easily maintainable. I can even see it growing, but surely there is a choice made when you start using daily. I know then its like you're locked into it and that it takes a lot of strength to over come an addiction like heroin.
    I've been there myself with pills/coke/crack or though never used any of them more than 2-3 times a weak at most, normally a lot less. I know what addiction is like. Your post seems to insinuate that I'm some how looking down on people and that I don't understand addiction.
    Anyway I can't be bothered to reply to all of your post.
    My original point was just that ciggs are nasty and well addictive and heroin can be maintained without actually falling into a nasty addiction by not doing it too regularly. Also that it didn't eat your mind like the propaganda would have you believe.
    I might have said it a bit more brashly but it was a point that I thought more people would have agreed with rather than just saying that they can't control themselves (basically). And can't help their addiction. At least that's what it sounded like to me.
    (I've just spell checked it to make sure Soviet Doesn't crucify me for mine and your typos unfortunatly it doesn't replace week with weak )
    [ 13 August 2002: Message edited by: Johny Boy ]
     

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