That Wacky Modafinil

[chris106]

Apologizes for the rambling block of text but hopefully someone else will attempt this, im actually going to recrystallize a small batch of the modalerts i have in absolute ethanol and report back.. goodluck

Hey everyone!

First of - so sad to see this great thread stagnating

I recently ordered Modalert online, to test if it has possitive effects for me, before I might get to test the real-brand modafinil some time soon.

I've been on MPH and then Amphetamines for the last few years, but they allways had nasty side effects. Since I suspectedly may have a sleep disorder(will be tested soon) I might get prescribed Modafinil by my doc, at least for a short test run. But the chances that german health-care will pay for it in the long run are slim to none, sadly.

Hence the modalert - I just wouldn't be able to afford the real deal for a longer period of time.

My question to you, polarbearsarecool, and everyone else of course:

I don't know much about chemistry, but from what I get, the problem with generic modalert might be it's none-crytalized form compared to brand-name Modafinil/Provigil due to patency-issues?
How exactly would one "recrystallize" modalert, and have you had any success yet in doing so? Is there a way to add other compounds or supplements to modalert, to reach this effect, or simply make it work better? To summarize: is there a way to make it work in the way the original brand does?

Or would I need a chemistry lab to achieve that? :D

Edit: My bad, I just realized that you allready explained how you try to achieve recrystallization in the quote above. But the question remains: Did you have success and are there simpler ways?

 

[magniloquentcunt]

Open question:
Methylphenidate (Ritalin, brand) does not work for me: took up to 60mg to no avail: i feel no different, besides being a bit more chatty.
Any of you in my boat? Did Provigil work for you???

 

[Hammilton]

It is known that provigil/nuvigil stimulates the enzyme that metabolized buprenorphine to norbuprenorphine.

Based on urine screens prior to nuvigil (150mg daily) use, my norbuprenorphine level was 71ng/L.

After three months of nuvigil use, my norbupe level has risen to 170 to 199ng/L. That is a consistent level, it the first month it was 185, the 3rd month was 199, and the second month was 172, so it doesn't seem to be exactly constant. This is from a 2mg / day dose.

That's a pretty substantial rise. All urine screens have been conducted with 36 hours (+/- 3.5 hours) between last suboxone and 24 (+/- 4 hours) nuvigil dose.

 

[chris106]

After three months of nuvigil use, my norbupe level has risen to 170 to 199ng/L. That is a consistent level, it the first month it was 185, the 3rd month was 199, and the second month was 172, so it doesn't seem to be exactly constant. This is from a 2mg / day dose.

That part confuses me... Is it by chance a typo?

And another quick question: Does anyone here know if it's safe to combine Tramadol (ocassionaly) with noopept or other racetams?

 

[sekio]

2mg/day of suboxone, not of modafinil.

 

[MeDieViL]

That part confuses me... Is it by chance a typo?

And another quick question: Does anyone here know if it's safe to combine Tramadol (ocassionaly) with noopept or other racetams?

hmm probably but tramadol increases risk for seizures this may the the case for the racetams as they are glutaminergic in action, so titrate carefully.

 

[polarbearsarecool]

hmm probably but tramadol increases risk for seizures this may the the case for the racetams as they are glutaminergic in action, so titrate carefully.

yeah i did pram/oxi/nef for 6 months on trams, racetam use definitely clears things up for the opiate ridden mind somewhat and can be extremely euphoric at times(chronic tramadol usage im talking), may even increase the seizure threshhold(the opposite of trams snri nature that lowers it). But a few times i've had dangerous results, mainly combining pramiracetam, ethanol, hash oil, and higher tram doses.

I always figured it was wierd though because taking racetams+ amphetamine for me is dysphoria and blunting of effects, i literally have to stop racetams/nuvigil within 24 hours if i want to amphetamine the next day, still its lackluster.

Which would make us think trams+ racetams are death right? It is not however, the bad effects from amphetamine+racetams stems from their shared effects on NO, ion channels, and more..

Definitely go for it.

 

[chris106]

hmm probably but tramadol increases risk for seizures this may the the case for the racetams as they are glutaminergic in action, so titrate carefully.

Thanx, and don't worry - I allways do. Will start with 50mg Trama and work my way up till 150mg one test at at time when on racetams...

I always figured it was wierd though because taking racetams+ amphetamine for me is dysphoria and blunting of effects, i literally have to stop racetams/nuvigil within 24 hours if i want to amphetamine the next day, still its lackluster.

Interesting, was the same for me. And great information provided, thanks for that! I do however, like mentioned above, only plan on using tramadol on specific occasions and just up to 150mg of it in combination with racetams. Won't go into too much detail, but it helps me with a certain condition occasionally, but that has nothing to do with me wanting to fight pain or trying to elevate mood - it's something else entirely.

However, I guess judging from what you said, in these boundaries I should be relatively safe with occasional 150mg Trama + racetams/ noopept. I will let you guys know once I try it (probably as soon as in the next 14 days)

One more thing: Since I will take a choline source (choline bitatrate) with the noopept,too - could that have any harmfull effect with Tramadol on itself? (I really don't see how, but don't want to take any risks...)

 

[Hammilton]

Huh, With all of the interest in drugs to increase the conversion of buprenorphine to norbupe, I"m surprised that quite literally no one has been interested in actual data on it's effect.

 

[ebola?]

I would have replied, but I figured that the world could live without me having said, "Whoa, that is very intriguing and potentially actionable case-history data that confirms theoretical supposition." Guess it can't now...

ebola

 

[Hammilton]

It definitely can't.

More importantly, there are two people here I know that were going to try it for this purpose, but I haven't heard back from them.

Less useful info: when using this combination, withdrawal sets in about 15 hours after the last dose, and much worse. Where I could usually go 30 hours without noticing any withdrawal symptoms, and 48 hours before I'd start having the horrible increase in RLS symptoms, with modafinil involved, RLS and yawning and eye-watering start kicking in after that 30 hour mark.

 

[chris106]

More importantly, there are two people here I know that were going to try it for this purpose, but I haven't heard back from them.

Well, that makes me slightly nervous, i guess... ^_^'

Less useful info: when using this combination, withdrawal sets in about 15 hours after the last dose, and much worse. Where I could usually go 30 hours without noticing any withdrawal symptoms, and 48 hours before I'd start having the horrible increase in RLS symptoms, with modafinil involved, RLS and yawning and eye-watering start kicking in after that 30 hour mark.

I'm a litlle confused by this statement... Are you talking about noopept - withdrawal? Didn't even know that was a thing... And by RLS you mean restless-legs syndrome?
I guess since I don't plan on using this combination often it wouldn't be that big a deal, but still...

By the way: Sorry if I seem clueless sometimes, but I really don't know that much about brain-chemistry (just getting into it) plus english isn't my native tounge...

Thanx a lot for your answers though! Guess I'll still try it. Hopefully I won't be the third person you don't hear back from... :D

 

[Hammilton]

No, I don't mean they're gone, i just haven't heard back about their trials of it. Lol.

No, I'm talking about suboxone withdrawal kicking in at about 15 hours, about 9 hours earlier than I'd like. About the time I go to work I start feeling it, and by the time I'm leaving, when i'm sitting doing my end-of-production paperwork, my RLS is kicking in terrible. RLS is a common symptom of opiate withdrawal, but I always have it. withdrawal is absolutely terrible without dopamine agonists or L-dopa for that reason. I quit suboxone two years ago, and was off it for about 8 months. The RLS got terrible, and before I got put on pramipexole, a doc gave me cyclobenzaprine for some reason, and I didn't sleep for over three days. I eventually went to the ER and they gave me a couple days of Valium. I ate that in one sitting and felt good enough until my real doc gave me the pramipexole. That worked pretty good, but eventually he gave me a long term script for diazepam, for occasional use when the pramipexole wasn't working well enough. Well, occasional use turned into daily use, then I started buying painkillers again, so after three months of that, I decided to go back on Suboxone.

Where I am now and will hopefully be forever. It simplifies addiction. Instead of constantly fighting relapse and periodically fucking up my life, I can stay on it and have zero problems, no relapses, not be late to work, always be able to pass a drug test, whatever. I hate all these people pushing absolute sobriety on addicts. with their talk about being chained to a drug. It's better than being chained to impulses I can't control properly and having every day be a battle.

 

[chris106]

No, I'm talking about suboxone withdrawal...

Obviously, should have gone a few posts back again, then that would have been clear to me. >_<'

I hate all these people pushing absolute sobriety on addicts. with their talk about being chained to a drug. It's better than being chained to impulses I can't control properly and having every day be a battle.

Definetely with you there. Glad you found something that works for you and has no nasty side-effects!

 

[reyqaz]

I had modafinil last weekend, and monday went smooth, a little bit of withdrawal, I did it again last night. And I've done more work in one night than the entire week.

 

[Kilfer]

Open question:
Methylphenidate (Ritalin, brand) does not work for me: took up to 60mg to no avail: i feel no different, besides being a bit more chatty.
Any of you in my boat? Did Provigil work for you???

I take modafinil or adrafinil (as pure base) 2 weeks each month alternating with two weeks of methylphenidate. I do this to avoid building up tolerance to methylphenidate without having to go through the craving and depression phase. Success is so-so because modafinil is not as harmless as its commercial promoters claim, there is a reason why it's a schedule 4 substance in the US. Modafinil is not a 'nootropic', this term is only used to make it sound as benign as vitamins. It's a CNS stimulant and it takes its toll. Euphoria is less intense but it lasts a long time and soon you find yourself seeking it even when other stims are available. You can<t really take both at the same time because the sustained mood elevation procured by modafinil nulls the methylphenidate and amphetamine high. Which brings an interesting observation: in order to truly enjoy amphetamine high you have to be slightly depressed when you take it. The contrast in mood is part of the buzz. It's almost impossible to be depressed with modafinil active in your system, you have to wait until it wears off and even then you still hesitate between re-dosing modafinil or taking the other stim. That's called addiction so it still amounts to 'choose your poison'.

 

[AlphaMethylPhenyl]

not surprising: http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=183580

 

[Kilfer]

So I've been considering Provigil or Nuvigil as a replacement, but so far from what I've read up on it, I'm not convinced its a suitable replacement for my ADHD and that it could negatively affect my sleep.

The reasons why modafinil is not used for ADHD appear to be more of a legal/economics nature than pharmacological. In the US even more so than in France, modafinil has invaded fields traditionally monopolized by amphetamines, methylphenidate and (more recently) buproprion: narcolepsy, chronic fatigue syndrome, gerontological neurology, military applications. Those are lucrative markets that were lost to a single substance patented to a French pharmaceutical firm. Heavy arguments for the US pharmaceutical lobby to pressure the FDA to at least keep ADD/ADHD out of Cephalon's reach for the time being. But there may be another reason...

...with regards to sleep disturbance you raise an excellent point: the potency of modafinil as a 'wakefulness promoter' supersedes that of any other known CNS stimulant, which is why the military like it so much... and why they have to use powerful hypnotics as 'no-go pills' to counteract its effects if a mission is aborted or even after a mission is completed. USN pilots who had previously been given dextroamphetamine as 'go-pills' report that when this was switched to modafinil the Ambien dose they were given as 'no-go' had little to no effect at all even though it did work with dextro. In light of this it is not unreasonable to suggest that ADHD patients treated with modafinil would require administration of relatively strong hypnotics in order to maintain a healthy sleep schedule.

 

[Kilfer]

not surprising: http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=183580

Indeed not surprising, and strongly reminiscent of methylphenidate's therapeutic journey which was initially and for almost 25 years promoted as a mild stimulant useful in the treatment of minor depression and hypersomnia. Since it was not related to amphetamines it remained on low schedules for decades with its promoters claiming it had absolutely nothing in common with 'speed' aka amphetamines. But down on the street users knew better, and the same is happening with modafinil. It is now a controlled substance in most Western countries with the notable (and likely temporary) exception of the UK and Canada. This is mainly due to the more tedious scheduling protocol used in those countries, and a more tolerant outlook on drug usage.

 

[pizzystrizzy]

The reasons why modafinil is not used for ADHD appear to be more of a legal/economics nature than pharmacological.

I'm not so sure -- I think psychiatrists would be happy to prescribe a drug that is not schedule II if it worked as well. Modafinil unfortunately doesn't really fit the bill. It certainly treats ADHD symptoms, but in terms of effect size, it isn't really much better than atomoxetine. It doesn't really compare to the effect sizes produced by the psychostimulants. http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/461543

As far as regulatory matters are concerned, I think if no children had developed stevens-johnsons syndrome during the 2006 clinical trial, it probably would have been approved for ADHD.