Opioids Methadone Mega Thread and FAQ

[DJ_KorKy]

thanks guys, I just saw that post via email from subscribed thread but you beat me to it, yea its for anxiety its very simular to xanax, generic name = Clonazepam, name brand = Klonopins

 

[Tchort]

I get sick of people pushing Buprenorphine to people who are benefiting from or who would potentially benefit from Methadone.

Buprenorphine does not work well for a lot of people. For me personally, it did nothing for cravings and produced a series of unpleasent side effects (including a severely more unpleasant withdrawal syndrome than IV Heroin). After a few months on Buprenorphine I went back to shooting dope, and ended up using a lot more Heroin than I ever used before starting with Suboxone. I've been clean from dope almost 2 years thanks to Methadone.

Methadone holds a number of advantages over Buprenorphine for treatment of opioid addiction.

 

[Subreflex]

I get sick of people pushing Buprenorphine to people who are benefiting from or who would potentially benefit from Methadone.

Buprenorphine does not work well for a lot of people. For me personally, it did nothing for cravings and produced a series of unpleasent side effects (including a severely more unpleasant withdrawal syndrome than IV Heroin). After a few months on Buprenorphine I went back to shooting dope, and ended up using a lot more Heroin than I ever used before starting with Suboxone. I've been clean from dope almost 2 years thanks to Methadone.

Methadone holds a number of advantages over Buprenorphine for treatment of opioid addiction.

I wish it were more available so I could assess the recreational value of both and research each alone and come up with a pro/con scenario for each.

But ATM pushin' Sox.

My posts don't mean to split hairs, I just know nearly nothing about methadone.

 

[Psych0naut]

Since I started out on Methadone I aquired through non-medical ways a few days ago, I completely stopped using IV Heroin like I did before. Before that, I used to shoot up to a gram a day of extremely pure Heroin #3. Now I haven't shot or did H in any other way for 3 days, and I definately feel I will keep it up, staying off of Heroin for the rest of my future. The Methadone kills all cravings as well as the withdrawl. I'm having an appointment on octobre the 24st with a Methadone doctor, to get me onto a Methadone treatment. I'm hoping to taper down with the Methadone till I'm at a low dose(under 20mg a day at least, preferrably even lower, like 10mg a day), and then switch over to Subs for the last bit, and do a fast taper with Subs in 10 days, and quit alltogether.

 

[Tchort]

Since I started out on Methadone I aquired through non-medical ways a few days ago, I completely stopped using IV Heroin like I did before. Before that, I used to shoot up to a gram a day of extremely pure Heroin #3. Now I haven't shot or did H in any other way for 3 days, and I definately feel I will keep it up, staying off of Heroin for the rest of my future. The Methadone kills all cravings as well as the withdrawl. I'm having an appointment on octobre the 24st with a Methadone doctor, to get me onto a Methadone treatment. I'm hoping to taper down with the Methadone till I'm at a low dose(under 20mg a day at least, preferrably even lower, like 10mg a day), and then switch over to Subs for the last bit, and do a fast taper with Subs in 10 days, and quit alltogether.

Best of luck with your plan. A lot of people do that, or try to do that. Maybe you should try tapering with just the Methadone first, and if it's too difficult then try something else. I've heard some doctors will switch a low dose Methadone patient to a shorter acting narcotic (Oxycodone, Hydrocodone, Dihydrocodeine, etc) and taper with the shorter acting drug. Buprenorphine can be very difficult for some people (myself included), and the partial agonist nature of its being makes switching back and forth to full agonists often needlessly painful.

 

[designed_reality]

this is sounding more like a trip report thread instead of actual useful information (unfortunately)

 

[brutus]

^ First hand accounts can be a valuable resource.

 

[sixpartseven]

^ Yeah, thats what the remainder of the thread is for: first hand accounts and questions/answers. Just like the Suboxone mega thread.

 

[Psych0naut]

Best of luck with your plan. A lot of people do that, or try to do that. Maybe you should try tapering with just the Methadone first, and if it's too difficult then try something else. I've heard some doctors will switch a low dose Methadone patient to a shorter acting narcotic (Oxycodone, Hydrocodone, Dihydrocodeine, etc) and taper with the shorter acting drug. Buprenorphine can be very difficult for some people (myself included), and the partial agonist nature of its being makes switching back and forth to full agonists often needlessly painful.

Thanks for the support man, I appreciate it. I've heard the same thing about the short acting narcotics sometimes being prescribed for the last bit of tapering down to nill, but that won't happen here, not in the Netherlands. All doctors prescribe is Methadone, and on some occasions Bupe. And a hand full of the most hardcore Heroin addicts get pharmaceutical Heroin on prescription. But they never use short acting narcotics on the end of the taper. I have faith in my approach of using Methadone at first, and Subs for the last bit though. We'll see how it goes, I'll report back on Bluelight how my progress goes

 

[Tchort]

Thanks for the support man, I appreciate it. I've heard the same thing about the short acting narcotics sometimes being prescribed for the last bit of tapering down to nill, but that won't happen here, not in the Netherlands. All doctors prescribe is Methadone, and on some occasions Bupe. And a hand full of the most hardcore Heroin addicts get pharmaceutical Heroin on prescription. But they never use short acting narcotics on the end of the taper. I have faith in my approach of using Methadone at first, and Subs for the last bit though. We'll see how it goes, I'll report back on Bluelight how my progress goes

I've had fantasies of immigrating to either Holland or most likely (and preferably Britain) for treatment. If I had my choice and a good doc I think a partial IV partial oral dose of Methadone plus oral Dextromoramide for break through cravings would be my g-spot Heroin addiction treatment.

I thought you guys had a much more enlightened addiction treatment environment, more medications, better clinics, better doctors, etc?

I'm pretty sure I've read of Dihydrocodeine being used to taper Methadone maintenance patients off at the end in the Netherlands. Hm.

 

[animalman]

Let me tell you another difference between methadone and other opiates, its withdrawl. i was on 180mgs/day steadily for about 6 months and got arrested. It was the worst withdrawl on earth. i would rather withdrawl from heroin 10 times than methadone once. the physical withdrawl was severe for 3 and half months, then I was severely depressed with axiety for another 3. I am just now starting to feel like a human being again. Seriously, it was traumatic. The worst is how long it lasts.

 

[Psych0naut]

I've had fantasies of immigrating to either Holland or most likely (and preferably Britain) for treatment. If I had my choice and a good doc I think a partial IV partial oral dose of Methadone plus oral Dextromoramide for break through cravings would be my g-spot Heroin addiction treatment.

I thought you guys had a much more enlightened addiction treatment environment, more medications, better clinics, better doctors, etc?

I'm pretty sure I've read of Dihydrocodeine being used to taper Methadone maintenance patients off at the end in the Netherlands. Hm.

You should at least visit the Netherlands for the BL 2009 meet up then, I could arrange you a place to crash if you'd come over! But yeah, the Netherlands is certainly one of the best countries in the world regarding opioid detoxing possibillities, but it's not completely perfect. I think you are right, I was probaply a bit pre-assumptious, but doctors are like you said, very liberal regarding medication prescribing as well as there treatments for opioid, as well as other types of addictions. Heroin, and before that Palfium, are available in some cases, but only rare ones. The official requirements for prescription Heroin in the Netherlands are that all other treatments have failed, and that you've been a repeated criminal offender for the last while, if not, you won't get pharmaceutical Heroin as far as I know, nor would you have gotten Palfium, or get it, if it's still prescribed nowaday's. On the other hand, doctors here in the Netherlands are extremely free in their prescribing, they can basically prescribe anything they want as long as they think if would be of benefit. Even normal GP's could, in theory, prescribe you Heroin, or Methadone together with Palfium, though finding such a doctor would be extremely difficult. There are however some doctors out there who are willing to prescribe like that. The doctors in Methadone clinics are probaply even more relaxed regarding what they would prescribe to treat your addiction, and as long as you stick to their rules and behave yourself nice, than I'm shure many doctors would prescribe more unorthodox medicines like prescription Heroin or Palfium even though you haven't tried and failed every other treatment and/or are a repeated criminal offender for recent period. So there might certainly be a fair chance that I could get some short(er) acting opioids considering I'm a true role model as far as opioid addicts go(I'm still studying for a nice education, never come into contact with the justice system, don't use any other drugs nor relapse and use Heroin again, now that I've been on Methadone for some while). I'll go and see what the possibilities are One thing is certain though, we do indeed have much better clinics and doctors, as well as insurance coverages for these kind of things. Every Dutch citizen has a full insurance coverage for Methadone/Bupe treatment, so even the expensive Bupe treatment is fully covered and payed by one's insurance. And there are hardly any, if any waiting lists at all in the urban parts of the Netherlands. And the clinics/addiction specialists are much more willing to try anything out, therapy and medication wise. Ow, Dihydrocodeine isn't used in the Netherlands, so I'm shure you've probaply mixed up the Netherlands with some other country.

 

[rickolasnice]

Bump -

Shouldn't this be used to clean up OD?

 

[robsku]

So my doses have been deadly?

You might believe my story or choose to call me liar but reading this thread I have been amazed about small sizes recommended for people with no tolerance and warnings that going higher would be so risky. I actually came to this thread when searching info about possibly taking even larger doses than before yet remain on safe area.

First I must say that I have tolerance. It's extremely minimal tolerance for buprenorphine that I now and then take recreationally (yes, thats common in Finland).

First time I tried methadone I first called for a friend who has lots of knowledge and has never adviced me with dangerously wrong info. He said that oral dose of 40-50mg would be suitable without opioid tolerance - later I have seen other people take this size of doses without tolerance. He also adviced that with IV dosing (liquid form) I should take only half of that.

On next 4 days I took 50mg everyday orally. I was nodding heavily to opiate dreams heavily specially in the beginning now and then. According to this thread the dose alone should have been fatal and if not then at least dosing daily should have led to built-up of methadon on my system leading to OD. Well I didnt feel nor did my sitter notice any dangerous signs.

After 4 days I started taking it intravenously. Usually 5ml which has 5mg/ml, so 25mg's a day except on couple days when I took little less than 6ml's (30mg). This binge of oral and IV dosing daily continued for about two weeks. Since that I have been taking methadon only ocassionally.

Coincidently I did take 25mg's today intravenously. It's been over 6 hours and I still nodd off pleasantly for short times. I have never had taken buprenorphine for several days before methadone so that has not diminished methadons effects and my opioid tolerance is so low that I can get a pretty nice buzz even from just buprenorphine with doses less than 0.4mg. Sure it is nothing even remotely as pleasant as methadon that works wonderfully even with 10mg IV dose but recommendation of 10mg orally for beginners sounds awfully low to me - this is the first place where I have read/heard of so low recommendations. Sure, I would think that it would work and give a nice buzz but nothing comparable to what potential this stuff seems to have with larger doses.

Still, this is just my story - for beginners it is always safer to assume that lower dose recommendations are more correct because you can always redose (just dont do it too early) or take larger dose next time but you cant get rid of something that is already in your bloodstream.

So, any opinions on how these large doses seem fine for me and for my friends (those friends with tolerance prefer naturally much larger doses than I do) when the recommendations here differ from my experience so drastically that I even feel that I could safely take even stronger doses, though without very certain info on safety I would prepare with sitter having naloxone injection ready if something would go wrong?

I'm honestly really interested about this and my story is not a lie (I would have better things to do than write spam of this nature and length ).

 

[sixpartseven]

Bump -

Shouldn't this be used to clean up OD?

Care to elaborate?

 

[The Monkey Mantra]

I'd like to point out (and spread around) the cases of two deaths from methadone maintenance patients undergoing forced detoxification in jail as officials callously denied their doses:

The first one: http://www.medicalassistedtreatment.org/95211/471119.html
http://www.eclayparker.com/releases/042998.html

Then the second: http://kay-lee.us/victory/Methadone.htm

Apparently they died from seizures. I straight up did NOT know you could die from opioid withdrawals, but I know methadone has some other effects (such as its effects on heart intervals, etc). If anyone's heard of this before and can explain what's goin' on mechanistically, please post or drop me a line. One more addition to this issue is whether prisons evaluate new inmates for alcohol dependency. Seems a shitload more important than the methadone folks, health-wise.



These deaths resulted in Orange County instituting methadone maintenance for prisoners. MMT makes sense. It results in fewer crimes and a MUCH better prison environment. If your state doesn't have it, AGITATE.

I also HIGHLY recommend you take a look at this document, about the rights of prisoners to methadone mainenance treatment in jail. It's got a whole history, it's super informative, and it's not a dry read by any stretch of the imagination.

http://www.drugpolicy.org/docUploads/boucher_prison_methadone.pdf

I also wanted to post this, though I'll probably be cross-posted. I found it in the preceding pdf:

13. NIH Nat’l Consensus Dev. Panel on Effective Med. Treatment of Opiate Addiction,
Effective Medical Treatment of Opiate Addiction, 280 JAMA 1936, 1936–38 (1998) [hereinafter NIH
Panel].
For decades, opioid dependence was viewed as a problem of motivation,
willpower, or strength of character. Through careful study of its natural history
and through research at the genetic, molecular, neuronal, and epidemiological
levels, it has been proven that opiate addiction is a medical disorder characterized
by predictable signs and symptoms.
Id. at 1938. A more recent study concluded that some people are biologically predisposed to becoming
drug abusers because their brains react differently to stimulants. Press Release, National Institute on
Drug Abuse, Differences in Human Brain Chemistry May Account for Different Responses to
Stimulants (Sept. 1, 1999), at http://www.nida.nih.gov/MedAdv/99/NR-91.html (last visited Oct. 26,
2002).

The NIH and NIDA released that statement in 1997. It's a pretty groundbreaking announcement for a government body. They're announcing, over and over, how important and beneficial methadone maintenance is. . I fucking love them. They've been batting for the methadone and addict team for a while now, and they're headed up by some really neat people. NIDA especially; its director is Nora Volkow, head researcher on some really amazing imaging studies about the brains of meth addicts and neat stuff like cue-induced cravings. She's Leon Trotsky's great-granddaughter, too!

Too bad no one gives a fuck about what they say.

 

[Mr Blonde]

Apparently they died from seizures.

The second lady did, the first article though states that the lady died from malnutrition and not being rehydrated enough to keep up with her constant vomiting and diarrhea. I did not know seizures were a symptom of methadone WD?

 

[jackie jones]

Do methadone clinics require blood/urine tests?

 

[The Monkey Mantra]

The second lady did, the first article though states that the lady died from malnutrition and not being rehydrated enough to keep up with her constant vomiting and diarrhea. I did not know seizures were a symptom of methadone WD?

Yeah, me neither, RE: the seizures. The whole thing was a big surprise to me. The creepy part was the second lady saying "Am I gonna die like the first lady?" and them assuring her she'd get the methadone.

("Me neither RE the seizures" is a randomly occurring weak-alliteration rhyme set! Weak alliteration is where you rhyme the vowels, especially cool if you can get multiples and string 'em together for a combo - something the old poets never did, but people like Eminem do a LOT. I love it when it just pops out of nowhere serendipitously! One part of one of my bigger rhymes was "The heir apparent to error, ergo peril and doom!", another example.)

 

[OntarioGuy]

Are There any Drugs/Substances That Will Cause precipitated withdrawal in Opiate dependent patients on methadone,Kinda like with subs?If so which ones? I Heard Tramadol Can Cause People maintained on Methadone to go into withdrawal but I'm not sure...I couldn't find anything on it when I searched,The Tramadol/methadone mix that is.Sorry if These questions seem stupid.