why is there more heroin overdoses than cocaine? My guess is that heroin is cheaper and whoever was cutting it either didn't do it right plus it is intravenous which should mean even the lowest dose could be highly effective as it goes in to your bloodstream quicker. Coke is a lot more expensive (and smoked and snorted) therefore anyone cutting it know how to "conserve". There was a recent news of overdoses on "tainted" heroin called Bud Light in the NY/NJ area. I saw it on Topix.
Heroin Heroin Mega Thread and FAQ
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BlueHues
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Cocaine is still cheaper than heroin on the street, as far as weight goes....whether its truly cheaper, nobody really knows unless you measure purity. Overall though, high quality heroin seems to be more available than high quality coke in many places these days.
Mr.Scagnattie
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Yeah absolutely. There is a lot more good H around, which obviously leads to OD's at a much greater rate than cut to hell cocaine, the majority of what's out there today.
Well price/purity aside, I think succumbing to a heroin OD is far more common because of the mechanism of action that leads to it. Also most heroin ODs are a result of IV administration, while people do IV cocaine, it is not nearly as common. Plus its all a matter of the threshold for OD compared to the usual dose of abuse.
Most deaths from heroin abuse are usually a direct result of a heroin OD (or a combination with other CNS depressant(s)).
Most deaths associated with cocaine abuse are just the result of the physical effects it has exacerbating an underlying medical condition. The exact cause of death would more likely be heart attack, stroke, aortic rupture, fatal cardiac dysrhythmia, etc., with cocaine intoxication being an exacerbating force of the cause. These aren't true ODs, though. Its like saying a person who died in a car crash died of a car crash...well not really, its was actually the depressed skull fracture and substantial subdural hemorrhaging that was cause of death.
Most deaths from heroin abuse are usually a direct result of a heroin OD (or a combination with other CNS depressant(s)).
Most deaths associated with cocaine abuse are just the result of the physical effects it has exacerbating an underlying medical condition. The exact cause of death would more likely be heart attack, stroke, aortic rupture, fatal cardiac dysrhythmia, etc., with cocaine intoxication being an exacerbating force of the cause. These aren't true ODs, though. Its like saying a person who died in a car crash died of a car crash...well not really, its was actually the depressed skull fracture and substantial subdural hemorrhaging that was cause of death.
BlueHues
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^Still, a significant number of people die from cocaine every year, not as many as 15 years ago...
And to say it only happens to people with "underlying conditions" is kind of misleading. Regular cocaine use can damage the heart. If you smoke freebase everyday for ten years, and then suddenly have a heart attack when you take one hit....Well, sure maybe you had "underlying conditions", but it was the chronic cocaine use that caused the "underlying condition"...Someone dying from an actual lethally toxic amount of a drug is rare..
If I took 16 mgs of xanax with 200 mgs of methadone right now, there's a good chance it would kill, but not because those are lethal amounts of either drug, but because it would cause respiratory depression that would cause my body to shut down. Aside from that, I'm sure my body could process those drugs without much of an issue.
People almost never die from a "true" overdose. That is to say, actually "poisoning themselves" with drugs.
And to say it only happens to people with "underlying conditions" is kind of misleading. Regular cocaine use can damage the heart. If you smoke freebase everyday for ten years, and then suddenly have a heart attack when you take one hit....Well, sure maybe you had "underlying conditions", but it was the chronic cocaine use that caused the "underlying condition"...Someone dying from an actual lethally toxic amount of a drug is rare..
If I took 16 mgs of xanax with 200 mgs of methadone right now, there's a good chance it would kill, but not because those are lethal amounts of either drug, but because it would cause respiratory depression that would cause my body to shut down. Aside from that, I'm sure my body could process those drugs without much of an issue.
People almost never die from a "true" overdose. That is to say, actually "poisoning themselves" with drugs.
DopeIsKing
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What a great forum, I fell in love with dope the moment it hit my nostril. You've provided some excellent help and information. I wish I could have found a forum like this when I first began getting into H. Careful everyone
wouldn't this be because heroin is cheaper like I said? It's only high quality because of how it was cut (i.e. the way it was cut was less filler was used?). The higher the quality is the more ODs it can lead to considering its bioavailability is high when using IV.
Yes because not many people can afford the lethally toxic amount of drugs in the streets unless you were the source or the dealer who had a need for such amount to "distribute".
I know a hooker who smoked crack for 20 years and she could only afford 50 bucks of it (not her own money, but money she got from swallowing cum).
I know a hooker who smoked crack for 20 years and she could only afford 50 bucks of it (not her own money, but money she got from swallowing cum).
BlueHues
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^A kilo of pure cocaine is still significantly cheaper than pure heroin, it always has been. However, the demand for cocaine has gone down and the quality has generally dropped...
Of course, unless you're directly involved with the high-level importation and distribution of these drugs, you're just piecing together info. from different sources and grasping at straws....Its really impossible to have discussions about price and purity in anything other than a very general way...However, it's generally known that kilo for kilo, cocaine is cheaper, but not as much cheaper as it once was...
I come from an area where heroin and cocaine are widely available from many different sources. The way the drugs are cut and packaged has changed a lot over the last ten years, and street prices there are about even for weight for good cocaine and mediocre heroin these days, but that's only because the heroin is stepped on and sold for cheap...The mediocre cocaine is still about half the price of the mediocre H.
Of course, unless you're directly involved with the high-level importation and distribution of these drugs, you're just piecing together info. from different sources and grasping at straws....Its really impossible to have discussions about price and purity in anything other than a very general way...However, it's generally known that kilo for kilo, cocaine is cheaper, but not as much cheaper as it once was...
I come from an area where heroin and cocaine are widely available from many different sources. The way the drugs are cut and packaged has changed a lot over the last ten years, and street prices there are about even for weight for good cocaine and mediocre heroin these days, but that's only because the heroin is stepped on and sold for cheap...The mediocre cocaine is still about half the price of the mediocre H.
Acanthus
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How much heroin is deadly?
I know this question is very difficult as it varies significantly with (a) quality of the gear, (b) body weight, and (c) tolerance.
But hypothetically for a average quality powdered Australian (Melbourne) heroin, 85 kg male, 10mg/day Suboxone usage for a year and only having used heroin once before, what would be a roughly deadly IV dose?
I have heard of one heroin addict (I am not one btw) injecting 2 whole grams and it still not killing him.
Anyone have any sort of knowledge on this? Am I missing other factors? Would 0.5g IV be lights out brussel sprout?
EDIT: Oh yes I just forget, are there any proven potentiating factors which may lower the LD50 other than the obvious alcohol and benzodiazepines.
I know this question is very difficult as it varies significantly with (a) quality of the gear, (b) body weight, and (c) tolerance.
But hypothetically for a average quality powdered Australian (Melbourne) heroin, 85 kg male, 10mg/day Suboxone usage for a year and only having used heroin once before, what would be a roughly deadly IV dose?
I have heard of one heroin addict (I am not one btw) injecting 2 whole grams and it still not killing him.
Anyone have any sort of knowledge on this? Am I missing other factors? Would 0.5g IV be lights out brussel sprout?
EDIT: Oh yes I just forget, are there any proven potentiating factors which may lower the LD50 other than the obvious alcohol and benzodiazepines.
Bambooshoot
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You already said it varies significantly . May I ask why you would like to know? It may just be me but it sounds suspiciously like you want to know so you can do it. If this is the case the dark side is a great place for support on here. Please take care.
Mr.Scagnattie
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I'm just going to move this to the H mega because such a speculative topic really does not warrant is own discussion. H purities vary incredibly, peoples tolerance, etc. There are way too many variables. What's lethal for one person, could barley be enough to get someone else out of withdrawal..
It also sounds a lot like you're trying to find a deadly dose of H purposely and make it more dangerous.. which if so, this is not the place to get help on killing yourself. If you want to do that, you'll have to figure that one out yourself.
It also sounds a lot like you're trying to find a deadly dose of H purposely and make it more dangerous.. which if so, this is not the place to get help on killing yourself. If you want to do that, you'll have to figure that one out yourself.
Acanthus
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Nah, I may be manic depressively reckless, but not suicidal -- can't die just yet, since I haven't yet contributed what I have wanted. I'm interested because it has always remained an unanswered question to me as to what dosages would be considered highly problematic and dangerous. The sort of dosages where anti-drug propaganda becomes real, and the user genuinely is playing Russian roulette with their life.
Has anyone anecdotally accidentally discovered where this point lay for themselves?
Most sites seem to say that 300-500mg is the beginning of this level with a tolerance.
I've found that the median LD50 blood morphine concentration is 1.5µg/ml for people over 25, with an LD100 of 3.9µg/ml^(this is what I'm really interested in, a statistically meaningful average), but I don't know how to convert that into an initial dose of the diacetylmorphine ingested.
Let's see....
Humans have ~77ml/kg blood volume, I'm 85kg, so my total blood volume would be: ~6545ml of blood.
Diacetylmorphine -> morphine conversion has a 1:1 molar relationship.
3.9µg/ml x 6545ml = 25526µg = ~25.5mg
Mean street purity of heroin in Australia is ~66.2%*
25.5mg/0.662 = 38.5mg
Wow. So a person with no tolerance is pretty much guaranteed to end up in a coffin with less than half a point. Does that seem right? Seems a bit low to me. I think the street purity figures the police published are too high (probably because most busts were high up).
^Source for LD50/LD100: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17370507
*Source for heroin purity in Australia: http://ndarc.med.unsw.edu.au/sites/default/files/ndarc/resources/T.R 079.pdf
Has anyone anecdotally accidentally discovered where this point lay for themselves?
Most sites seem to say that 300-500mg is the beginning of this level with a tolerance.
I've found that the median LD50 blood morphine concentration is 1.5µg/ml for people over 25, with an LD100 of 3.9µg/ml^(this is what I'm really interested in, a statistically meaningful average), but I don't know how to convert that into an initial dose of the diacetylmorphine ingested.
Let's see....
Humans have ~77ml/kg blood volume, I'm 85kg, so my total blood volume would be: ~6545ml of blood.
Diacetylmorphine -> morphine conversion has a 1:1 molar relationship.
3.9µg/ml x 6545ml = 25526µg = ~25.5mg
Mean street purity of heroin in Australia is ~66.2%*
25.5mg/0.662 = 38.5mg
Wow. So a person with no tolerance is pretty much guaranteed to end up in a coffin with less than half a point. Does that seem right? Seems a bit low to me. I think the street purity figures the police published are too high (probably because most busts were high up).
^Source for LD50/LD100: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17370507
*Source for heroin purity in Australia: http://ndarc.med.unsw.edu.au/sites/default/files/ndarc/resources/T.R 079.pdf
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Mr.Scagnattie
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^^
For a non tolerant person, it is going to be very easy to overdose..there's really no need to do all these calculations and whatnot. A few hundred mg's of even crappy heroin would be enough to kill somebody. But what does that matter? You'd be an idiot to jump right to a huge dose like that when first starting out..
When first trying H, start with a tiny match head size bump, and with no tolerance, that will most likely be enough to get you really high. The important thing, no matter what drug you're taking, but especially with street drugs like H when you have no idea what the purity is and it can vary so much, is to start off low and work your way up. Do test doses to gauge the purity. It's really not that complicated.
For a non tolerant person, it is going to be very easy to overdose..there's really no need to do all these calculations and whatnot. A few hundred mg's of even crappy heroin would be enough to kill somebody. But what does that matter? You'd be an idiot to jump right to a huge dose like that when first starting out..
When first trying H, start with a tiny match head size bump, and with no tolerance, that will most likely be enough to get you really high. The important thing, no matter what drug you're taking, but especially with street drugs like H when you have no idea what the purity is and it can vary so much, is to start off low and work your way up. Do test doses to gauge the purity. It's really not that complicated.
King_Willie
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Forreal, a lot of stuff round here(Prov/Mass) is rocky, and its usually fire. Surprised tgeres so many who have never seen shit like that before..
Mr.Scagnattie
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^^
No idea, man. Could be anything. No point in guessing as it'd all just be pure speculation. That's why we don't do substance or cut ID threads on here.
No idea, man. Could be anything. No point in guessing as it'd all just be pure speculation. That's why we don't do substance or cut ID threads on here.
southeast
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I'm not sure what you mean, heroin always brought me peace real or not. Before I was physically addicted there were days I did not think about it... But even in abstinence from it, it dominates my thoughts. And no one gives me a break, no place gives me solice. Junkie days, or post days, it's all eventual. Even the pre is post --
hi guys, i bought 0.5g brown(kinda yellow) heroin #4 and i think it was #3 bcuz didn't dissolved when i added water... i heated 1cc water+0.2g heroin about 20-30sec. then it dissolved. euphoria wasnt strong and didn't last longer as i expected(2-3 hrs). what i did wrong? how to know it's a #3 or #4 heroin? (sorry for my english)
Hecticus
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What I'd give for some heroin right now. Some might disagree but this drug was made for shooting, other methods are too inefficient.
My only experience with low tolerance was rectal & IV. I had 250mg's which I dissolved in 2ml of sterile water. Which I then titrated up slowly with the rectal route and then with IV. 40 units/60mgs IV had me nicely stoned. I don't recommend IV, or doing heroin at all. Plan and measure your doses.
My only experience with low tolerance was rectal & IV. I had 250mg's which I dissolved in 2ml of sterile water. Which I then titrated up slowly with the rectal route and then with IV. 40 units/60mgs IV had me nicely stoned. I don't recommend IV, or doing heroin at all. Plan and measure your doses.
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