best roid combo you have used?

[Whatchamacallit]

Muscle Does Not Turn To Fat

 

[PARooolller]

OT but...

750-1000mg of test for a first (second or even third) cycle is completely unnecessary.

8 weeks at 500mg EW (divided into (2) 250mg doses) is always the standard, recommended "beginner cycle".

Remember the purpose of using test and test only first cycle is to see how one's body reacts to exogenous testosterone.


.

I agree and I plan on doing my first cycle of 500mg/week of Test Enanthate for 10 weeks....

I've always heard you shouldn't run test for less than 10 weeks..you say 8 and I know you're an experienced and knowledgable user/researcher...

how long should I run my first cycle?

I'm planning on a regimen like this:

-500mg Test Enanthate (250mg two times a week)
-PCT- Nolvedex and clomid --can these be taking together at the same time?

That's about as simple as it gets and I plan on getting massive gains from my first considering my diet and training has been optimal for a while and my new workout split has proven to be very effective.

 

[baby boy]

thats a good question has anyone had much experience with clomid and nolvadex iv never used them as i havn't had much probs with sustanon ?

 

[baby boy]

Muscle Does Not Turn To Fat

sorry

 

[VictorZ06]

Listen, your first cycle is going to be the most important one, so you wan to make sure you have it down right.
And this comes from someone who has been using AS for about 12 years now. You are going to find many opinions on what a proper first cycle should look like.

The best way to get a more accurate idea of what you should run is by listing your stats.
How old are you, how long have you been training, how much do you weigh, what is your bf%, what are your goals, etc. All these factors should be taken into account.
Someone who weighs 250 should be on different doses than the person who weighs 150. Post your stats and we can better help you.

 

[baby boy]

what is advisable for for say a male
25-27 yrs old
height 6,2
weight 120 kg
build solid
been training for 8 years on and off probably 3 months off every year
has done gear all kinds before but not had a good diet to match
is overweight ny bout 10 kg at the moment
want to loose weight and bulk at the same time

 

[VictorZ06]

thats a good question has anyone had much experience with clomid and nolvadex iv never used them as i havn't had much probs with sustanon ?

Yes. I prefer clomid over nolva though, although I have used both at the same time (when on really high doses). I stopped using nolva and only use clomid and HCG for post (and proviron for 3 weeks after last shot). You will find people using different methods.

As for the dosage, 50-100 mg/per day(1-2 tablets) seems to be sufficient. The tablets are usually taken with fluids after meals. If several tablets are taken it is recomended that they be administered in equal doses distributed throughout the day. I run it for 3 weeks.

Most athlets begin with 100 mg/day taking one 50mg tablet every morning and evening after meals. After the fifth day the dosage is often reduced to only one 50mg tablet per day. Since Clomid should not be taken for a prolonged time its application as an antiestrogen must be excluded because, for that purpose, it would have to be taken for several weeks.

Since HCG, unlike Clomid, leads to a distinctly elevated plasmatestosterone level within a few hours, many athletes first take HCG and then Clomid. But I have now found that taking HCG during the entire time much better, but again, this is when using higher doses.

 

[VictorZ06]

what is advisable for for say a male
25-27 yrs old
height 6,2
weight 120 kg
build solid
been training for 8 years on and off probably 3 months off every year
has done gear all kinds before but not had a good diet to match
is overweight ny bout 10 kg at the moment
want to loose weight and bulk at the same time

Loosing weight and bulking at the same time don't really work. You can cut fat and add muscle/weight. Since you have experimented with AS in the past and weigh a good 120 and have been training for 8 years I would up your dose a bit. You mentioned your diet was not that good. I suggest fixing that first before you dip into using AS. After your diet becomes routine, start.

With your stats I would run this (this is considering you have used AS before, train, sleep, and diet right).

Test e 750mg ew 1-14
Decca 600mg ew 1-12
dbol, 40mg ed 1-5 (some push it to 6, some use it up to 4)
____________
proviron 50mg ed 1-16
HCG 500iu eow 1-16


So you are looking at 3 shots a week. You can use EQ instead of decca (I use both), but EQ is known for stimulating a very large appetite, and if you are looking to loose weight like you said, I would run decca instead.

Just understand that a bulk cycle will make you gain weight. If you are looking to cut, than we need to start over. One of decca's advantages is that it lubricates your joints and work outs appear to be easier. Any more than 600mg of decca e/w, and you could be running into some issues with "deca dick" and extra water retention.

The above program can yield you a good 20-30 lbs. of muscle if your diet and training are done right. Some are gonna chime in and say my suggestions are too much, but seeing as how I've been there and done that and now sometimes use 3X what I suggested....I think you'll be fine. Oh, and try and stick with human grade gear if you can. Good luck.

 

[PARooolller]

Would nolvedex and clomid be sufficient enought PCT for a first cycle?

My source doesn't have HCG injections

also explain armidex and proviron---do I need to add these to my protocol?

 

[VictorZ06]

Would nolvedex and clomid be sufficient enought PCT for a first cycle?

My source doesn't have HCG injections

also explain armidex and proviron---do I need to add these to my protocol?

Yes. Nolva and clomid are the bare essentials. You could actually just run the clomid alone as I have done several times in the past.

You will need some kind of anti-e while running and I believe proviron works the best, it also increases libido and gives me morning wood every day. Both you and your pecker will love the stuff!

You will need to use it throughout the entire cycle, preferably 2 weeks after during post as well. Average dose is 50mg a day. Double that if using high doses.

Armidex is great stuff if you are retaining a lot of water. You don't NEED HCG, but it does help you get back to normal easier when post time comes. I use it because I run higher than average doses.

 

[PARooolller]

Yes. Nolva and clomid are the bare essentials. You could actually just run the clomid alone as I have done several times in the past.

You will need some kind of anti-e while running and I believe proviron works the best, it also increases libido and gives me morning wood every day. Both you and your pecker will love the stuff!

You will need to use it throughout the entire cycle, preferably 2 weeks after during post as well. Average dose is 50mg a day. Double that if using high doses.

Armidex is great stuff if you are retaining a lot of water. You don't NEED HCG, but it does help you get back to normal easier when post time comes. I use it because I run higher than average doses.

Good post, thanks for the info....

So I'm going to order Clomid+Nolvedex+Proviron

What does the dosing schedule for these look like? start clomid and nolvedex 2weeks after last injection?

Also, I should dose the proviron during the whole cycle up until 2 weeks after? So start the other PCT right after?

 

[VictorZ06]

Yes. Start clomid 10 days after your last shot, 100mg for the first 5 days, 50 mg for the next 12-15 days. (some change it a little)

As for Nolva, It all depends on how YOUR body reacts to everything. If you retain alot of water you may want to take 10-20mg of nolvi from the start. If you don't then you may not have to take nolvi until the end. But if you are using proviron, you may not need the nolva at all. Don't go over 40mg of Nolva if you do use it.

Yes, proviron should be used starting day one and I suggest using it for two weeks after your last shot. PCT starts when you first start taking clomid 10 days after you are done. Good luck!

 

[jester79]

the question was best, not first or smartest, or what others will think is cool
that was my 3 month cycle in 2000 , no adv. be easy on the crack pipe jokes and so forthe, im not new to this by a long shot...Peace--atill trying to find an intelligent board--hope this ones it and that was just a few teasers for somone new to this board peace

jester79

 

[jester79]

the question was best, not first or smartest, or what others will think is cool
that was my 3 month cycle in 2000 , no adv. be easy on the crack pipe jokes and so forthe, im not new to this by a long shot...Peace--still trying to find an intelligent board--hope this ones it and that was just a few teasers for somone new to this board peace

jester79
aka wildbill

 

[VictorZ06]

We really did think you were kidding.

I would think "best" and "smartest" fall in the same glass of water. Would it be fair to say that one would think the smartest cycle is the best for that individual?

I don't believe using ketamine, ketaset, or ketalar is at all smart. It's way too strong and completely unneeded. If you can't sleep at night, you are much better off using a low dose of some sort of benzo. Too much is not good as it takes a toll on your liver.

Ketamine has a wide range of effects in humans, including analgesia, anesthesia, hallucinations, elevated blood pressure, and bronchodilation. Not something I would want to mix in my cycle. I'd would find it hard working out in a K hole.

Don't know how many cycles you have run, but as for some of your doses....I believe they are far too low.

15mg dbol per day weeks 1-6
50 mg og equiposie weeks 1-10
100mgs of deca weeks 1-10

I don't think one would notice any effect on these doses, perhaps for some women who are 60 lbs. or so.

 

[PARooolller]

Let's see some pics in ou pic forum Victor!!! you seem to have some knowledge on AAS.....Thanks for the input on PCT...Unlike some people, I'm making sure to get my PCT protocol lined up and ordered before the actual gear.

 

[VictorZ06]

Let's see some pics in ou pic forum Victor!!! you seem to have some knowledge on AAS.....Thanks for the input on PCT...Unlike some people, I'm making sure to get my PCT protocol lined up and ordered before the actual gear.

Smart move. Don't ever start a program without having everything you need on hand. It's foolish to start when you don't have everything you need....your supplier may run out, mail can get lost, etc. If that happens, your cycle gets all fucked up.

I've been BB for 12 years, never competed though. Simply never had the time to give it 100% with work and all. I know a fair amount about AS, I've been using them for over a decade and I have seen results of others using different programs. I am by far not a "Mr. Know It All", but I'm usually rather accurate when it comes to putting a proper program together as I have helped many others in the past.

Pics? I'd put ya all to shame!! lol %)

 

[PARooolller]

Smart move. Don't ever start a program without having everything you need on hand. It's foolish to start when you don't have everything you need....your supplier may run out, mail can get lost, etc. If that happens, your cycle gets all fucked up.

I've been BB for 12 years, never competed though. Simply never had the time to give it 100% with work and all. I know a fair amount about AS, I've been using them for over a decade and I have seen results of others using different programs. I am by far not a "Mr. Know It All", but I'm usually rather accurate when it comes to putting a proper program together as I have helped many others in the past.

Pics? I'd put ya all to shame!! lol %)

Well welcome to the board and we all hope to read more of your contributions to this "slowly growing" forum...In reality, the Steroid forum should be the most important forum in regards to harm reduction and insight because so many users don't do their research and get into a lot of trouble with silly misuse and irresponsible cycles......

I've yet to run a cycle but have been researching AAS and exercise science for about 5 years now...I have dozens of friends who use them unsuccessfully and ignorantly and about 3 friends who use them correctly and efficiently...It's amazing that the only side effect to a properly planned cycle with correct PCT is that "IT WORKS!!" On the other hand, when uneducated about their use, it can be horrific..I've had friends with liver failure, horrible depression, lost jobs from mood swings, bad acne, no libido for 6 months, and even one that needs 1000mgs of Test just to be able to lift a weight off the rack at the gym....it's sad, but true

There are soooo many stigmas attatched to AAS and the people/organizations that use them that need to be debunked...I'd much rather take a performance enhancing hormone to better my health and quality of life than shoot 7 bags of a powdered substance off of the streets anyday....

 

[VictorZ06]

^ Well put. I too have seen many people go horribly wrong. I have not been on this board that long, but I have seen so many people giving out bad and dangerous information here. I know of someone who had a heart attack because he though he could use as much as he wanted, for as long as he wanted. Almost died. So when I hear people giving out wrong advice, it really bothers me.

If you are going to use AS, you really have to do your research. It may take you weeks to learn what you need to know before you start....especially if you move on to harder things such as insulin. You need to know how to train right and eat right on AS, or else you are wasting time and money.

I was lucky enough to have very experienced guys show me the ropes when I first started. I've also read many many books and articles on the subject. If you are too lazy to do the research, you should not be using AS, period. And lastly, you can't always believe and trust what someone is telling you on a messageboard/forum. If you are willing to take someones advice, confirm it elsewhere as many times as you can, and don't follow suggested doses by your supplier, he could care less about your health and well being...he just wants to make a buck.

 

[Xevro]

Lol!

From personal experience, I would recommend the fluid from the anal gland of a full grown tom cat.

made my day.