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Thread: Kratom and Buprenorphine: will it work?

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    Kratom and Buprenorphine: will it work? 
    #1
    Question
    I'm wondering if anyone has tried Kratom and Buprenorphine together. I know from personal experience that Tramadol is effective when taken with Bupe, and Tramadol is sort of a Pseudo-Opiate with mu affinities. Since Kratom really isn't a typical Opiate, I thought it might be active also when combined with Bupe.

    Anyone successfully combined Kratom with Buprenorphine/Suboxone?

    Also, does Bupe only block the mu receptors, or does it block K and Delta too?

    Thanks for your responses!
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    #2
    Don't know about delta, but its a kappa antagonist.
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    #3
    Wouldn't that mean Bupe would block the effects of Salvia divornium?

    I was reading a study a few days ago and it appears that K-Opioid activation reduces the effects of mu-agonists. Maybe if Bupe had no effect on the K receptors, it might provide more euphoria, analgesia, and basically more "full mu agonist" kinds of effects? Of course it still wouldn't be like a full agonist due to it's mu antagonistic properties, but you get the point. :-)

    Well I'm hoping Bupe has no effect on Delta receptors, so then if Kratom is taken I'd still get those Delta effects. I wonder what a drug that acts specifically as a Delta agonist would feel like? Hmmm...
    Last edited by mitragyna; 29-08-2008 at 23:03.
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    #4
    They seem to act as stimulants, also antinociceptive action, also, many, but not all delta agonists produce dose-dependent seizures.

    Anecdotal reports, and mouse data suggest that it does indeed block the effects of salvinorin A.
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    #5
    Interesting, thanks for that. I wonder if that's what gives Kratom it's stimulant properties...I guess that would make sense since lower doses which are the most stimulating affect mostly Delta. Then the higher, more euphoric and sedating hit the mu also. Then again Kratom's stuctural similiarity to Yohimbine may account for it's stimulation. But that's just me thinking out loud.
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    #6
    I don't think so Mitragyna, solely on the rather unscientific point of, if it had been anything in the way of an a-2 antagonist, I would have felt truely miserable when I first took kratom, and would have probably thrown the rest of the bag out of the window, as I can't take anything that acts in any way like an adrenergic stimulant.
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    #7
    I dunno, if it is, it's a weak one.

    I've always been able to feel kratom through buprenorphine (8mg daily) but only with very high doses have I felt salvinorin A (up to 5-6mg vaporized is about what I need)
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    #8
    Bluelighter grue's Avatar
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    Maybe if Bupe had no effect on the K receptors, it might provide more euphoria, analgesia, and basically more "full mu agonist" kinds of effects?
    Kappa receptor stimulation decreases both K+ evoked and spontaneous dopamine release, and kappa opioid agonists (including salvinorin) are dysphoric in human studies.

    Conversely, KO-antagonists are antidepressants in rat models of depression, and buprenorphine's ko-antagonism has been suggested as contributing to special antidepressant activity.

    Dynorphin is your brain's endogenous kappa-opioid agonist, and it is elevated in response to (for instance) cocaine use. So this elevation of dynorphin has been suggested as contributing to the "undopaminergic" state that is the cocaine "withdrawal" syndrome.

    Now, kappa-opioid receptors do seem to have some role in analgesia. But they also seem to potentially antagonize mu-opioid receptor analgesia: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/en...&dopt=Citation

    Complex indeed.

    Also of interest: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/en...&dopt=Citation
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    #9
    Bluelighter grue's Avatar
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    Anecdotally, salvia divinorum produces, following the experience, an antidepressive pro-hedonic, motivated rebound in me that lasts a few days.

    Thanks to the poster Frangible elsewhere for teaching on these topics.
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    #10
    Just wondering if anyone's tried this? I am on Kratom now, but am scared to dose bupe because of the possibility of precipitated withdrawals.
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    #11
    Bluelighter pr0d1gy's Avatar
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    I have experience with this, I find I can feel Kratom even with bupe in my system. It doesn't make sense how I can still feel kratom even if ive just dosed bupe but in my experience I can, kinda weird.

    I do find taking a large amount of kratom to close to my daily bupe dose can cause INTENSE nausea. Bupe and kratom alone don't give me nausea but mixed together they can.
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    #12
    Quote Originally Posted by pr0d1gy View Post
    I have experience with this, I find I can feel Kratom even with bupe in my system. It doesn't make sense how I can still feel kratom even if ive just dosed bupe but in my experience I can, kinda weird.
    Does it feel like an opiate buzz? Or something else? I've never had kratom myself, but I am on bupe maintenance and am curious about trying it. It is indeed strange that people seem to be able to feel kratom while on bupe... although perhaps someone more knowledgable about kratom's pharmacology can explain.
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