• N&PD Moderators: Skorpio | thegreenhand

L-Theanine: Is Suntheanine the best?

Weird, maybe you have a sensitive reaction to it.

I take ~200mg of theanine probably on average, every other night. I never recall feeling much at all from it. I'm going to do some reading on it and possibly try a higher dose tonight to see if I feel any anxiolytic or sedative effect.


It may be the formula i have, which might cross the BBB quite readily:


Supplement Facts

Serving Size: 2 Softgels
Servings per Container: 30

Amount Per Serving % Daily Value
Calories 11
Calories from Fat 11
Total Fat 1g 1.5%
Cholesterol less than 5 mg 2%
L-Theanine 200 mg
Casein Tyrptic Hydrolysate 150 mg
Natural Marine Lipid Concentrate 800 mg
DHA (Docosahexaenoic acid) 400 mg
EPA (Eicosapentaenoic acid) 160 mg

Other Ingredients: Natural marine lipid concentrate [fish (anchovy, tuna, sardine)], gelatin, glycerin, water, casein tryptic hydrolysate (milk), L-theanine, beeswax, soybean oil, mixed tocopherols, lecithin (soy), and caramel powder (color).

Contains: fish (anchovy, tuna, sardine), milk, soy.

This product is produced in a facility that produces products containing soy, dairy, fish, and crustacean shellfish.

Free Of
Wheat, gluten, corn, nuts, tree nuts, artificial flavors, and preservatives.
Metagenics Lumina™ Directions

Two softgels daily or as directed by your healthcare practitioner.



To add, effects are noticeable within 10 minutes and intensify for another 20 or so, so it takes roughly 30 minutes to peak.. And, um, i feel effects the entire day and into the next. It seems to have a cumulative effect as well - building up in the system over days

I haven't taken any today cause i'm still pretty chill from the 200mg i took yesterday.. tho not spaced out like i was earlier

Still, there's much research to be done... ;)


EDIT: Well it synergizes very omg nicely with d,l-amp (adderall IR). something about this is reminiscent of MDxx.. There's a pleasant dreamy-headspace with a feeling of deja vu and living in the moment. The zone out feeling from l-theanine alone is now a powerful feeling like i'm in a trance

Music sounds twice as good as on either one alone. I'm one with the music. Mind you i took only 200mg l-theanine + 15mg adderall (1/2 my 30mg dose)... I'll move up the dosage later this week and see how that goes

YMMV. I get the impression i'm not unique in this tho.. My mom is the physician who sends it to me and told me it was potent stuff. It's possible i'm just sensitive, but it seems more likely that this is a really potent product (expensive too, of course)

I can't fathom ingesting more than 600mg at a time TBH, and i'm not exactly the faint-of-heart type when it comes to a wide range of dosing
 
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I use the brand that is in 150mg capsules.
Works well for me with just one 150mg cap. It works well when you really have anxiety or feel uncomfortable. 5htp doesn't work that well for me with anxiety or sleep but l-theanine(suntheanine) is very effective for both mood and sleep.
 
Before you decide to take this supplement, see suntheanine side effects. I'm currently training on a new job and was advised to take two tablets 200mg each in the morning. First day three words one dizzy bitch. It's that type of amount that is a level act as a sedative to sleep. Not the best when your position is in an IT department for medical software billing and I'm temp to hire. Don't listen to your mother that works in a health food store and has you as a guinea pig for new product material. If you want to be "touched in the head", this is the way to do it.
 
Before you decide to take this supplement, see suntheanine side effects. I'm currently training on a new job and was advised to take two tablets 200mg each in the morning. First day three words one dizzy bitch. It's that type of amount that is a level act as a sedative to sleep. Not the best when your position is in an IT department for medical software billing and I'm temp to hire. Don't listen to your mother that works in a health food store and has you as a guinea pig for new product material. If you want to be "touched in the head", this is the way to do it.

Haha welcome to bluelight.

It seems the effect varies a lot between people. I actually take ~ a gram of it to little effect. That's not to say it's not worthwhile for me, it's definitely relaxing and a nice sleep aid, but I don't really notice overt effects.
 
I just bought a bottle of "200mg GNC 'Suntheanine' - L=theianine" (60 per bottle; and they were $32 at GNC!) and I personally think they work great if your feeling stressed out, or if you just want to relax b4 bed or even in the day, they really don't make you tired at all, they just relax me, but i can only use them once, maybe twice a week at most an get good effects. But i like em a lot, real good if use correctly..
 
*** N.B. After writing this I realised that this post becomes a bit of a biochemistry rant, and ends up seriously diverging from anything written by the OP temporarily. I apologise for this in advance - I get carried away with this type of stuff =D ***

...yes, sort of. But what you just said there is the generic ("Do not take if on MAOI of any kind as it may dramatically increase plasma concentrations...") widely-thought view. It's actually so much more complicated than that. Most MAOI's [d]do[/b] potentiate the effects of drugs like stimulants and mushrooms/acid because they prevent the breakdown of the drug or its metabolites in the CNS, which obviously can be dangerous physically (for things that one can OD on - e.g. coke), or dangerous mentally (for things like mushrooms; it could make 1g feel like 5g, which could be massively overwhelming for a first timer, or even an experienced user thinking they were taking a low dose). Actually, come to think of it, the latter can actually cause major physiological problems because those kind of drugs do increase blood pressure/cause vasoconstriction etc... which - if prolonged - could be a serious issue.

Anyway, I digress. Basically, there is a lot of difference between all these different types of drugs. When 'legal highs' say something like "DO NOT TAKE IF ON SSRI'S OR MAOI'S" it's usually just to give the most scope of caution to the users. I mean, we all know how many people out there think that just because something is 'legal' or 'herbal' it means it's safe. And then we see BZP/Mephedrone/GBL related death due to lack of knowledge or research. The different mechanisms of action are actually quite important between all these enzyme inhibiting drugs. For example, oral DPT can only be taken with an oral MAOI simultaneously or else it's broken down too fast. Same goes for supplements like PEA and l-Tyrosine (and, to some extent, l-Theanine) as these chemicals are broken down so fast within the brain, sometimes within about 0.5 seconds of them hitting your bloodstream. The point that I've been circumlocuting for the last two paragraphs (8)) is that - whilst the most common MAOI's will potentiate stimulants and the likes - the issue with Selegiline is slightly different because it's quite a unique MAO inhibitor.

Most prescribed anti-depressant drugs are non-specific MAO inhibitors. That is, they inhibit most - if not all - types of monoamine oxidase enzymes (these are pretty much what is responsible for moving around and modulating neurotransmitters in the brain). Seeing as most drugs (with the exception of most non-synthetic opiates, and GABAergic drugs...to an extent) practically rely on flooding the brain with either one of the aforementioned neurotransmitters, or in some way blocking their re-uptake, then it can be very dangerous taking certain courses of anti-depressants with Cocaine/Amphetamines/MDxx's etc.. as, if you have too much 'excess' serotonin and/or dopamine (to name two of the most commonly known ones) then it can cause hypertensive crisis, Serotonin Syndrome, tardive dyskinesia (to name a few) and, of course, death. Neurotransmitters are great when you're fucked on them, but not so great when you get fucked by them.

Deprenyl [Selegiline Hcl/Citrate] differs in the fact that it's an irreversible specific MAO-B inhibitor. This is a lot less "easy-going" than most other types (i.e. you don't have to be as careful with your diet or drug-intake). Extra-simplified, this basically means it partially stops the breakdown of dopamine in the brain, hence why people use it to treat Alzheimer's, Parkinsons and - if you're looking for the Nootropic value - to boost motivation and focus, as dopamine is heavily connected with these cognitive functions (being directly associated with the reward/pleasure centres of the brain). So, what happens is that, over time, you constantly have "extra" dopamine in your brain. This can lead to downregulation of the dopamine receptors: they are no longer as sensitive to dopamine molecules so after you stop taking it and you take drugs with high dopamine-receptor affinity (like Cocaine), your receptors don't 'notice' as much as you *technically* shouldn't get such a kick out of it. Obviously this can cause people to take more and *possibly* lead to overdose, but this is only in extreme conditions.

The problem with Selegiline - and what I was hoping someone with advance drug-chemistry knowledge could help me out with - is that, because it's classed as "irreversible" it can potentially take up to 40 days for MAO-B inhibition to return to normal, and possibly even longer for upregulation of dopamine receptors to occur (to return to their normal 'sensitivity'). I was just wondering if anyone had any definitive knowledge, or better yet, personal experience, with using Selegiline or a similar drug like Rasagiline and taking other drugs either, a) alongside it; or b) a few days after stopping treatment/self-medication?

I personally don't take anything like base or coke, but - when I have the availability - I take Adderall or Ritalin for a study aid. Both are almost structurally identical to the two street drugs on a molecular level so there's quite a bit of relevance there.

I know of the dangers to do with systolic blood-pressure when it comes to taking these two combined, but I take low enough doses for that to be a minor problem. Plus I have herbal antihypertensives to hand if things get really problematic. However, that's not my issue. What I'm more concerned about is the effectiveness if - say - Ritalin when taking Deprenyl...? I would usually only take 10-30mg oral/railed for study aid reasons; but if Deprenyl is going to cause severe enough downregulation of certain receptors then I don't want to end up taking 5x more Ritalin than normal, both due to economic reasons, and physiological complications...

Does anyone have any experience in this field? Perhaps even with regular MAOI's...? Any info is appreciated :)



Hmm, that is pretty weird. 18g of L-Theanine is a LOT!! Are you sure it wasn't bunk stuff...?
Do GABAegric drugs like the less tranquilising Benzodiazepines (Clonazapem, Temazepam, Midazolam...) have any effect on you at all?? I ask because L-Theanine is clinically/scientifically proven to have such a wide spectrum of effects on the brain and CNS that, theoretically, if you genuinely feel 'absolutely nothing' from a dose that massive then you shouldn't respond to a whole range of other, commonly-prescribed drugs.

Have a look at this website. I would actually advise anyone interested in L-Theanine to read this anyway as it's very concise and has the bare bones of what you would want to know - http://web-us.com/l-theanine_anxiety_reducer.htm). To Copy&Paste the most interesting/relevant bit(s):




* Alpha brainwaves are the type generated in a sort of mild hypnagogic state, in the sense that you are alert but in an introspective and peaceful sort of way. You're in "alpha-mode" when you are meditating, listening to music you love, just before you go to bed etc.. not drowsiness or lethargy but more an intense immersive wakefulness; it's a relaxed and effortless alertness. When you're genuinely stress-free or totally comfortable somewhere or with someone you're probably in your alpha brainstate. This is why L-theanine is so versatile: you can take in excess of 500mg and be totally anxiety-free, or you can take slightly less and be in a relaxed yet motivated mood (hence why it's useful in a Nootropic Stack). I'm para-phrasing what is explained alot more articulately in the article and adding in a bit of subjectivism but this seems to be the general consensus

On a side note, this stuff goes amazingly well with other supplements or anxiolytic medicines. I'm prescribed Clonazepam (6mg a day) and have found that low doses of l-Theanine can really boost it's effects in terms of both duration and intensity. Not only that, but when I've been out of K-Pins I've taken a combination of L-Theanine, 5-HTP and L-Tyrosine (essentially, GABA:Serotonin:Dopamine - the ultimate long-lasting, all-round replacement) and it's worked FANTASTICALLY!

The Monkey Mantra: unless those 18g were fake then I really can't see how that's physically possible. I mean, that's a truly epic dose! I can understand an enzyme deficiency that may inhibit particular biochemical mechanisms, but that would also most likely mean you wouldn't respond to Benzos as well (unless you don't??) I suppose one thing it could've been was that you took it on a full stomach...? It's an amino acid so you're s'posed to take it on as empty a stomach as you can manage so there aren't as many competitive proteases to prevent metabolism. Never take amino acids with a high-protein content meal, or after exercise.

I would recommend trying it again (at a dose of ~500-750mg) and perhaps in combination with dopamine and serotonin and GABA precursors: 5-HTP, L-Tyrosine, NALT, L-Trytophan, DLPA, L-Phenylalanine, Phenibut, Picamilon etc... to see if that'll do anything.

EDIT - Sorry, mitragyna; I've managed to completely hi-jack your thread with a whole load of irrelevant crap (those first few paragraphs). Didn't mean to do that, I apologise. I'll probably start a new thread somewhere else asking about all that other stuff.

Just out of interest - what kind of dose will get you where you want; how long does it last; and do you split it over the course of the day?
Much thanks to you for taking the time to write this.
 
It sure does something for me, especially when combined with piracetam, it's a very stoney relaxed kind of sensation but for some reason I can't sleep after taking a dose of it (or I'll sleep, but only for an hour or two then wake up).
I finally tried out suntheanine last night, a few hours before bed, and dosed it as well this morning. It is very relaxing and calming, although I had the same issue of waking up every hour or two.

I just took it with piracetam about 30 minutes ago. My day is already looking brighter.
 
I just don't believe in l-theanine. I think it has some very limited actions, but the rest is in your head -- especially the folk who claim 200 mg gets them buzzed lol...what a fucking joke.
 
150mg seems to numb my feet some. We're not playing one size fits all. It seems to give me more of that "larger-open head space" feeling, than reducing stress.
 
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