*** N.B. After writing this I realised that this post becomes a bit of a biochemistry rant, and ends up seriously diverging from anything written by the OP temporarily. I apologise for this in advance - I get carried away with this type of stuff ***
...yes, sort of. But what you just said there is the generic ("Do not take if on MAOI of any kind as it may dramatically increase plasma concentrations...") widely-thought view. It's actually so much more complicated than that. Most MAOI's [d]do[/b] potentiate the effects of drugs like stimulants and mushrooms/acid because they prevent the breakdown of the drug or its metabolites in the CNS, which obviously can be dangerous physically (for things that one can OD on - e.g. coke), or dangerous mentally (for things like mushrooms; it could make 1g feel like 5g, which could be massively overwhelming for a first timer, or even an experienced user thinking they were taking a low dose). Actually, come to think of it, the latter can actually cause major physiological problems because those kind of drugs do increase blood pressure/cause vasoconstriction etc... which - if prolonged - could be a serious issue.
Anyway, I digress. Basically, there is a lot of difference between all these different types of drugs. When 'legal highs' say something like "DO NOT TAKE IF ON SSRI'S OR MAOI'S" it's usually just to give the most scope of caution to the users. I mean, we all know how many people out there think that just because something is 'legal' or 'herbal' it means it's safe. And then we see BZP/Mephedrone/GBL related death due to lack of knowledge or research. The different mechanisms of action are actually quite important between all these enzyme inhibiting drugs. For example, oral DPT can
only be taken with an oral MAOI simultaneously or else it's broken down too fast. Same goes for supplements like PEA and l-Tyrosine (and, to some extent, l-Theanine) as these chemicals are broken down so fast within the brain, sometimes within about 0.5 seconds of them hitting your bloodstream. The point that I've been circumlocuting for the last two paragraphs (8)) is that - whilst the most common MAOI's will potentiate stimulants and the likes - the issue with Selegiline is slightly different because it's quite a unique MAO inhibitor.
Most prescribed anti-depressant drugs are non-specific MAO inhibitors. That is, they inhibit most - if not all - types of monoamine oxidase enzymes (these are pretty much what is responsible for moving around and modulating neurotransmitters in the brain). Seeing as most drugs (with the exception of most non-synthetic opiates, and GABAergic drugs...to an extent) practically rely on flooding the brain with either one of the aforementioned neurotransmitters, or in some way blocking their re-uptake, then it can be very dangerous taking certain courses of anti-depressants with Cocaine/Amphetamines/MDxx's etc.. as, if you have too much 'excess' serotonin and/or dopamine (to name two of the most commonly known ones) then it can cause hypertensive crisis, Serotonin Syndrome, tardive dyskinesia (to name a few) and, of course, death. Neurotransmitters are great when you're fucked on them, but not so great when you get fucked
by them.
Deprenyl [Selegiline Hcl/Citrate] differs in the fact that it's an irreversible specific MAO-B inhibitor. This is a lot less "easy-going" than most other types (i.e. you don't have to be
as careful with your diet or drug-intake). Extra-simplified, this basically means it partially stops the breakdown of dopamine in the brain, hence why people use it to treat Alzheimer's, Parkinsons and - if you're looking for the Nootropic value - to boost motivation and focus, as dopamine is heavily connected with these cognitive functions (being directly associated with the reward/pleasure centres of the brain). So, what happens is that, over time, you constantly have "extra" dopamine in your brain. This can lead to downregulation of the dopamine receptors: they are no longer as sensitive to dopamine molecules so after you stop taking it and you take drugs with high dopamine-receptor affinity (like Cocaine), your receptors don't 'notice' as much as you *technically* shouldn't get such a kick out of it. Obviously this can cause people to take more and *possibly* lead to overdose, but this is only in extreme conditions.
The problem with Selegiline - and what I was hoping someone with advance drug-chemistry knowledge could help me out with - is that, because it's classed as "irreversible" it can potentially take up to 40 days for MAO-B inhibition to return to normal, and possibly even longer for upregulation of dopamine receptors to occur (to return to their normal 'sensitivity'). I was just wondering if anyone had any definitive knowledge, or better yet,
personal experience, with using Selegiline or a similar drug like Rasagiline and taking other drugs either, a) alongside it; or b) a few days after stopping treatment/self-medication?
I personally don't take anything like base or coke, but - when I have the availability - I take Adderall or Ritalin for a study aid. Both are almost structurally identical to the two street drugs on a molecular level so there's quite a bit of relevance there.
I know of the dangers to do with systolic blood-pressure when it comes to taking these two combined, but I take low enough doses for that to be a minor problem. Plus I have herbal antihypertensives to hand if things get really problematic. However, that's not my issue. What I'm more concerned about is the effectiveness if - say - Ritalin when taking Deprenyl...? I would usually only take 10-30mg oral/railed for study aid reasons; but if Deprenyl is going to cause severe enough downregulation of certain receptors then I don't want to end up taking 5x more Ritalin than normal, both due to economic reasons, and physiological complications...
Does anyone have any experience in this field? Perhaps even with regular MAOI's...? Any info is appreciated
Hmm, that is pretty weird. 18g of L-Theanine is a LOT!! Are you sure it wasn't bunk stuff...?
Do GABAegric drugs like the less tranquilising Benzodiazepines (Clonazapem, Temazepam, Midazolam...) have any effect on you at all?? I ask because L-Theanine is clinically/scientifically proven to have such a wide spectrum of effects on the brain and CNS that, theoretically, if you genuinely feel 'absolutely nothing' from a dose that massive then you shouldn't respond to a whole range of other, commonly-prescribed drugs.
Have a look at
this website. I would actually advise anyone interested in L-Theanine to read this anyway as it's very concise and has the bare bones of what you would want to know -
http://web-us.com/l-theanine_anxiety_reducer.htm). To Copy&Paste the most interesting/relevant bit(s):
* Alpha brainwaves are the type generated in a sort of mild hypnagogic state, in the sense that you are alert but in an introspective and peaceful sort of way. You're in "alpha-mode" when you are meditating, listening to music you love, just before you go to bed etc.. not drowsiness or lethargy but more an intense immersive wakefulness; it's a relaxed and effortless alertness. When you're genuinely stress-free or totally comfortable somewhere or with someone you're probably in your alpha brainstate. This is why L-theanine is so versatile: you can take in excess of 500mg and be totally anxiety-free, or you can take slightly less and be in a relaxed yet motivated mood (hence why it's useful in a Nootropic Stack). I'm para-phrasing what is explained alot more articulately in the article and adding in a bit of subjectivism but this seems to be the general consensus
On a side note, this stuff goes amazingly well with other supplements or anxiolytic medicines. I'm prescribed Clonazepam (6mg a day) and have found that low doses of l-Theanine can really boost it's effects in terms of both duration and intensity. Not only that, but when I've been out of K-Pins I've taken a combination of L-Theanine, 5-HTP and L-Tyrosine (essentially, GABA:Serotonin:Dopamine - the ultimate long-lasting, all-round replacement) and it's worked FANTASTICALLY!
The Monkey Mantra: unless those 18g were fake then I really can't see how that's physically possible. I mean, that's a truly epic dose! I can understand an enzyme deficiency that may inhibit particular biochemical mechanisms, but that would also most likely mean you wouldn't respond to Benzos as well (unless you don't??) I suppose
one thing it could've been was that you took it on a full stomach...? It's an amino acid so you're s'posed to take it on as empty a stomach as you can manage so there aren't as many competitive proteases to prevent metabolism. Never take amino acids with a high-protein content meal, or after exercise.
I would recommend trying it again (at a dose of ~500-750mg) and perhaps in combination with dopamine and serotonin and GABA precursors: 5-HTP, L-Tyrosine, NALT, L-Trytophan, DLPA, L-Phenylalanine, Phenibut, Picamilon etc... to see if that'll do anything.
EDIT - Sorry, mitragyna; I've managed to completely hi-jack your thread with a whole load of irrelevant crap (those first few paragraphs). Didn't mean to do that, I apologise. I'll probably start a new thread somewhere else asking about all that other stuff.
Just out of interest - what kind of dose will get you where you want; how long does it last; and do you split it over the course of the day?