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Thread: Ketamine topical creams/preperations

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    Ketamine topical creams/preperations 
    #1
    Bluelighter RainingDownOxy's Avatar
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    I'm not sure if this belongs in OD so mods remove to the appropriate place if needed and my apologies

    My question is-has anyone on here ever been prescribed any form of ketamine for any type of pain or know or heard of ayone being prescribed it?Specifially I'm talking about Ketamine creams with maybe Lidocaine in the mix.I've heard of these types of creams and also a patch but cannot find any and I mean ANY info on it!!! are they prescribed in the U.S? I heard that they need to be "made"or prepared at a specific pharmacy--correct me if Im wrong-- From what I've read its been debated whether or not K, which is a an N-methyl-D-aspartic acid (NMDA) receptor antagonist works well for Neuropathic pain or any other type of pain. It would seem like it would work very well in for chonic pain and maybe be a better substitute in place of other anesthetics. I'm not very aware of its side effects which maybe one of the reasons why it isn't used.

    I'm very interested in the creams that contain K and also Lidocaine to use for chronic PM. Any info on anything about this topic would be much appreciated!!!
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    #2
    Bluelighter plutoniumboss's Avatar
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    I didn't think ketamine could absorb through the skin (maybe with DMSO,) plus the fact that it's hard to consistently measure dosage with creams.
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    #3
    Bluelighter RainingDownOxy's Avatar
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    I didnt think it could be either but then somebody told me that they knew someone who was prescribed a ketamine plus lidocaine cream.I have had just plain old lidocaine cream before, would a ketamine cream be harder to absorb???
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    #4
    They are compounded by pharmacies, they aren't a product made as is by a specific company, at least as far as I know.

    I have a friend who had a shoulder problem, and about a year or two ago he had a custom compounded topical cream that contained ketamine, lidocaine, ketoprofen, and gabapentin. (I found the concept of topical gabapentin very interesting/weird.)

    We played around with it, he let me use some, and it worked well on my back for aches and pains. But, there's no feasible way to extract the ketamine, if one was interested in doing something like that. I think his container of cream contained something like 10g of ketamine. To extract that would have been awesome, but it wasn't possible. And you wouldn't want to eat the cream to get high, no way would that be a good idea.

    plutoniumboss: The cream probably does contain DMSO, or at least something like it, to make it absorb through the skin.
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    #5
    Bluelighter RainingDownOxy's Avatar
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    ^^Yes then what I heard is correct--I never thought of extracting the K but that would be awesome!!

    Chimpo--are you in the U.S??so one can in fact get this type of cream for pain (your friend you said)??I was thinking about seeing if I could get my doctor to prescribe me instead of Lidoderm patches, if it is possible and legal in the U.s.
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    #6
    Yes, I am in the US. That cream is fully legal and possible here.

    Also, the only reason I mentioned extracting the ketamine was to answer that question before it was asked, which I figured was inevitable. With all the work that would be required to do it, you would be better off just synthing your own from scratch. Seriously, it would be that hard.


    So it is something your doctor could prescribe you, whether he knows it or not. He could put whatever he wants in there too. Ketamine + lidocaine + whatever cream; just bring the prescription to a compounding pharmacy and you're good to go.

    My friend had good success with it, so hopefully you will too (if you get it). What is your injury, if you don't mind me asking?
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    #7
    Bluelighter RainingDownOxy's Avatar
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    Yes that would seem very hard to do. I have Plantar Facitits, possibly RSD, Bunions, and a few other long term diagnosis.In a nutshell my feet are so flat and there is so much strain on them bc of no arch that Ihave only 50% of my cartilage left in both feet. Also a bone in each foot thats suppose to be straight is curved at a 45 degree angle in the opposite directions. So I figured that the cream would be helpful in reducing the pain while I'm on my feet,sounds like it would. Is it coverd by insurance or is it expensive or do you know??
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    #8
    ^ I don't know what your insurance plan is, so I can't tell you that. Assuming you have decent insurance, it should be covered. Its not like its very different from any other drug (cream, pill, whatever) that you pick up from the pharmacy. Pay your co-pay and you're good. If you really want to know, call the phone number on your insurance card and ask them how they cover compounded medications. Say its a cream with ketamine and lidocaine, just lie and pretend like its already prescribed; that way it will be easier to get them to answer your questions. As for cost, I don't know, but the fact that the pharmacist has to actually make it with his own two hands rather than just throw some pills into a bottle and stick a label on it makes me think it would cost more than your average junk, but again, if you have insurance, cost shouldn't matter.
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    #9
    Bluelighter Geist89's Avatar
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    Hm... I should talk to my pain doctor about this. I really don't wanna be on opiates for a long time. I have nerve pain due to inflamed nerves from scar tissue formed after a hernia surgery. At least from what I learned in psychopharmacology, NMDA antagonism plus an anti-inflammatory would be the perfect remedy for this. A pain doctor that I had already tried injecting steroids into the area, but he either missed or used a dose that did virtually nothing the couple times I had it done.

    ...except I think a 19-year-old male asking for ketamine would make any doctor laugh out loud.
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    #10
    Almost anything can be absorbed thru the skin with DMSO. We used to grind a certin steroid into powder, mix it with the DMSO and go work out.
    If you use this method make sure all your stuff is clean. When applying a DMSO mix it is just like shooting the stuff into your body. (and I dont meen IV and rush)
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    #11
    Quote Originally Posted by johanneschimpo
    (I found the concept of topical gabapentin very interesting/weird.)
    i dont suppose, being a topical cream, that you would have noticed the direct effects of this; dosing would have been too small, right?

    what's the name of this cream? i wouldn't mind looking it up. or just have a search for ketamine topical creams?
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    #12
    Bluelighter Geist89's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by leftwing
    i dont suppose, being a topical cream, that you would have noticed the direct effects of this; dosing would have been too small, right?

    what's the name of this cream? i wouldn't mind looking it up. or just have a search for ketamine topical creams?
    If you read the thread, it's made at a compounding pharmacy. It's not made by any pharmaceutical company. Well, the actual ketamine, DMSO, etc. are but the final product is compounded at the pharmacy.
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    #13
    Bluelighter RainingDownOxy's Avatar
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    Geist89----Thats exactly what Im thinking.Opiates work but its he bumping up an the taking more and more that got me thinking into differant alternatives for pain management. I think the K and Lido would be awesome!

    And as for beig 19----that doesnt mean shit--Im 22 and have been on opiates (presribed that is) by the same PM doc for almost 5 yrs!! So the fuck if we ask for a fing cream with 10% or whatever of ketamine!!!

    What would they say???? Oh I dont wanna give you this but keep taking a 160mg of oxy everyday----Come on NOOOOOOOOOOW!!
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    #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Geist89
    If you read the thread, it's made at a compounding pharmacy. It's not made by any pharmaceutical company. Well, the actual ketamine, DMSO, etc. are but the final product is compounded at the pharmacy.
    i read the thread, but im assuming this cream has a formulation name?

    quick edit to add in a word
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    #15
    Bluelighter
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    I work for a very large nationwide mail order pharmacy as a customer service rep..there is no "brand"name for the cream since it is a compound. Whenever I see an account where someone is being prescribed it just comes up as ketamine hydrochloride that is if the ket is the most costly drug in the compound(thats how they calculate the copays). I would say that even with insurance this can be a pricey drug from $75-200 and the price will range depending on the average wholesale price of the drug, this is a single source brand drug(for human use at least) so if that manufacture wants to raise the price then the consumer gets stuck with the bill. Just be careful with compounds alot of insurance companies cover them but due to the multiple drugs used you usually have to pay out of pocket under the full retail and then submit a paper claim to be reimbursed the difference of your copay(electronic claims are not usually possible). I heard its wonderful for topical pain relief according to the customers I have talked to.
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    #16
    Bluelighter Geist89's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by honeybee420
    I work for a very large nationwide mail order pharmacy as a customer service rep..there is no "brand"name for the cream since it is a compound. Whenever I see an account where someone is being prescribed it just comes up as ketamine hydrochloride that is if the ket is the most costly drug in the compound(thats how they calculate the copays). I would say that even with insurance this can be a pricey drug from $75-200 and the price will range depending on the average wholesale price of the drug, this is a single source brand drug(for human use at least) so if that manufacture wants to raise the price then the consumer gets stuck with the bill. Just be careful with compounds alot of insurance companies cover them but due to the multiple drugs used you usually have to pay out of pocket under the full retail and then submit a paper claim to be reimbursed the difference of your copay(electronic claims are not usually possible). I heard its wonderful for topical pain relief according to the customers I have talked to.
    As far as compounding goes, most of the cost of the drug goes toward the pharmacist/tech labor that goes into concocting the cream/capsule/etc. Past that, hope that your insurance covers it. If not, it might be worth at least just trying one round around.
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    #17
    Bluelighter RainingDownOxy's Avatar
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    Thats what I figured that it would be pricey even with insurance. I have really good insurance and a really cool doctor so hopefully I can give it a whirl!!! Just talking about it and that it works for pain relief from what I can read makes me feel better already!!! Just hopefully it works for everybody's dif types of pain.

    Does anybody have any tips/tricks for putting the cream on (my feet) wo letting all of it get absorbed into my sock and get all sticky and nasty
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    #18
    Bluelighter Geist89's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RainingDownOxy
    Thats what I figured that it would be pricey even with insurance. I have really good insurance and a really cool doctor so hopefully I can give it a whirl!!! Just talking about it and that it works for pain relief from what I can read makes me feel better already!!! Just hopefully it works for everybody's dif types of pain.

    Does anybody have any tips/tricks for putting the cream on (my feet) wo letting all of it get absorbed into my sock and get all sticky and nasty
    I would say putting saran wrap over it, but then again, that would cause the medication to be absorbed much faster, too. There have been recorded fatal overdoses of lidocaine cream (forgot the brand name) where people have applied it an put saran wrap over it and having it become concentrated to the point where it gave them heart arrhythmia that turned into fatal acute myocardial infraction.
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    #19
    Bluelighter RainingDownOxy's Avatar
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    ^^^That was in the back of my mind.I once did the saran wrap with my lido cream but it didnt work. God that would suck to have that happen. Im going to my PM doc in a week or so and am going to ask him if I can try the K/Lido compound. Have you ever tried to get it or are thinking about it still?
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    #20
    Bluelighter solvent101's Avatar
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    jus try rub sum on ur gums its absorbd that way so i ges u could have it ina topical cream gives u gum numbs
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    #21
    Bluelighter Mr Blonde's Avatar
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    ^ You rub it on your gums for recreation?

    Anyway, the thread was about using ketamine as a pain medication, otherwise this would have been shot over to PD.
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    #22
    Bluelighter RainingDownOxy's Avatar
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    This is only about using it for pain medication!!!!!who would wanna rub it plus Lidocaine on their gums!!!!nasty
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    #23
    What a stupid idea. Topical ketamine? pish tosh.

    a waste of money.

    Unless someone has a study comparing Lidocaine + Ket to just Lido.
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    #24
    Hope this is not too late to do some good. I am a pharmacist (really) and I know that topical ketamine works wonders for neuropathic pain and also as an adjunct (add-on) to opiates for pain management. If you need drug information, go to the drug informations specialist, a pharmacist. If they do not know the answser, ask a hospital or hospice pharmacist. They may have more/better resources to find the answer to your question. Ketamine does not need DMSO to absorb through the skin. It will do it quite willingly by itself. (Just another thing a compounding pharmacist will know.) Combos of ketamine and other drugs for pain are becoming quite common with the revival of compounding pharmacies. Any further questions?????
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    #25
    ^ Dude, thanks for bumping this. Now I remember how well that worked - I'm going to talk to my doctor.
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