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Thread: Is Fentanyl Patches Safe If You Dont Have Any Opiod Tolerance?

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    Is Fentanyl Patches Safe If You Dont Have Any Opiod Tolerance? 
    #1
    Question
    My situation is very complicated so please be patient with me as I explain.

    With fentanly Ive heard that you need to have used other opiates in the past before you can use fentanyl but I personally dont have any tolerance to other opiods whatsoever, Im as opiod- naive as they get.

    I also have a rare neurological condition that developed after overdosing on recreational drugs 8 years ago which damaged my autonomic nervous system and left me with a severe chemical sensitivity and a condition called Dysautonomia. Im no longer able to use any type of reacreational drugs anymore as even the smallest dose can be fatal for me. Ive had severe adverse reactions to other opiates including Tramadol, Oxycodone, Darvocet and Morphine which were given to me for detereorating muscle and joint pain.

    After a surgery in hospital I discovered that I was able to tolerate fentanyl without any problems while I was sedated, and a follow up ive fentanyl test by the pain managment clinic I confirmed that i was able to take it, but this is where it gets even more complicated.....following the IV fentanyl test which went great but 8 hours later when I was resting I experinced a delay onset of respiratory depression, after going to the ER the Dr told me that the fentanyl given to me had been absorbed into my muscles and during the 8 hour period my body may have developed antibodies towards it and later the re-release of the stored fentanyl in my muscles were rejected causing the respiratory depression. I know it sounds a bit whacked

    So its now been 1 months since the incidence and Ive had a pack of fentanyl patches sitting there the whole time and ive been somwhat scared and reluctant to start on them. For someone like me is a 12 micrograms/hour 2.1 mg per patch realtively safe, and if infact my body has now developed some sort of rejection to fentanyl how can i be sure without puting myself in too much risk?
     

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    #2
    Didn't read but its not safe to wear a fentanyl patch with no tolerance because by the time you feel it, its too late to take it off. With no tolerance, a patch is best used other ways, such as buccally/sublingually in small doses.
     

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    #3
    Does your same comment also apply to 12 micrograms/hour 2.1 mg per patch or is that an exception due to its low potency/dose?
     

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    #4
    Bluelighter pinpoint's Avatar
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    well first of all, we are not doctors, we cannot legally diagnose, treat or give you any sound medical advice. what i will say is that there is no way to tell whether you will have a bad reaction to it since we don't know your body's chemistry. if you had a bad reaction previously, your body is clearly telling you not to give it fentanyl anymore, so you do the math.

    if your physician prescribed you these patches then it is safe to assume that you can use these AS PRESCRIBED, which doesn't mean cutting them open and eating/smoking them. unless you really need them for pain management, i'd sell them to someone who needs them or toss em in the trash [i know, it'd be a tragedy].

    it's like your telling us you ate peanut butter one day and you vomited for the next several hours and then you ask us if you should eat peanut butter again...how should we know?

    every reply herein will be simple speculation.
     

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    #5
    oh, they were prescribed to you? why are you doubting your doctor and taking the advice of junkies?
     

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    #6
    pinpoint, thats why i fisnihed off saying "how can i be sure without puting myself in too much risk" let me eloborate , what if i was to leave a patch on for 1 hour and then dispose of it, would that be enough time for an indication wether I have developed adverse reactions to it?
     

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    #7
    ^ it takes something like 12 hours to reach peak levels. so at least a few hours to feel a tingle.
     

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    #8
    Because i dont trust my own body enough to take doctors advice, my body has let me down so many times, im on high alert all the time when it comes to trialling new medication, and yes i have more faith in junkies to be honest at least they have first hand experince which doctors lack
     

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    #9
    Bluelighter pinpoint's Avatar
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    ^well we don't have first hand experience with YOUR body. we obviously have first hand experience with our own bodies. that's why we always say YMMV (your mileage may vary)..because we can't assume everyone will react the same way. to each their own.
     

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    #10
    Quote Originally Posted by pinpoint
    if your physician prescribed you these patches then it is safe to assume that you can use these AS PRESCRIBED, which doesn't mean cutting them open and eating/smoking them.
    lol i wouldnt dare use them in any other way then how they were prescribed for me, I dont have the luxury of experimenting with them as im not as healthy as you guys. but i also dont want to put doctors advice on a pedestal, after all their only human too. I need second opinion thats from different sources so i can make up my own mind, thats why im here
     

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    #11
    Bluelighter pinpoint's Avatar
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    JC, care to chime in on how we can't predict how his body will react to a drug..?
     

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    #12
    ok whats got me confused is all the contradictory information out there, so many sources say u can only use fentanyl if u have an opiod tolerance, then if thats the case why am I being prescribed this if i have none, should I just blindly trust the doctors? and I also dont understand how does the general public with no opid tolerance able to be given enough fentanyl to sedate them during surgery without overdosing if in fact its such a risky substance that requires some previous exposure to opiates? I recall reading that the moderator Sonic has had a lot of experince with it, wish he was here to comment
     

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    #13
    Bluelighter pinpoint's Avatar
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    well normally a doctor wouldn't start a patient out on such a strong opioid pain killer, but it depends on your level of pain and the manner of it's effect. if you told your physician you are allergic to tramadol, oxycodone, darvocet and morphine that doesn't leave many other options for pain treatment. fentanyl patches will keep your pain under control for long lengths of time, which is the benefit of the time release mechanism in such drugs like oxycontin, MScontin, and tramadol xr.

    if your doctor prescribed you the patches, it is safe to assume you can use them as prescribed with no ill effect. many people abuse the patches by opening it and smoking or consuming the gel contained inside it. this is very dangerous if you are opiate naive and probably is why you read it's risky.
     

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    #14
    Quote Originally Posted by pinpoint
    JC, care to chime in on how we can't predict how his body will react to a drug..?
    well thats stating the obvious! and guess what its not only yous that cant predict it also the doctors as well and even I myself cant predict.

    So what do I do then, do I just give up, im just simply trying to get as much information as I can here, and I would like to know are 12 microgram and hour patches usualy low enough dose for those with no opiod tolerance...incase anyone out there has heard or tried.
     

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    #15
    okay thank you, so my intention all along was to use it as directed so il give ita try tommorow by perhaps keeping the patch on for an hour or two and see how that goes before I increase the length next time
     

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    #16
    Bluelighter pinpoint's Avatar
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    ^yeah, honestly that is the only way you can find out; you have to try it. if you don't want to try it then throw them in the trash.

    it's that simple.
     

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    #17
    If i had alternative options to deal with my pain I would gladly throw them out without any second thought, I dont feel comfortable or safe with the idea of fentanyl after the things ive heard about it but ive explored and expired all other avenues, this is it basicaly my last one
     

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    #18
    Quote Originally Posted by pinpoint
    JC, care to chime in on how we can't predict how his body will react to a drug..?
    We simply cannot.
    It would be irresponsible and dangerous to do so.
     

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    #19
    Bluelighter Aeon Psyche's Avatar
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    It doesn't seem your opiate tolerance is the problem but rather your body which can't tolerate opiates for some reason. I also think the dosage would matter to answer your question if it is safe to take the stuff without tolerance. There must be various strengths of this med and perhaps if you start with the lowest dosage it will work out for you. Anyway, ask your doctor. We can speculate but we're not experts on this matter.
     

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    #20
    Bluelighter Aeon Psyche's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pinpoint
    throw them in the trash.
    Say what?
     

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    #21
    12 mg an hour is the loswest dose I think, unless theres any other brand then duragesic that makes lower doses?
     

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    #22
    Bluelighter NW-baltiland's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pinpoint
    if you don't want to try it then throw them in the trash
    woah woah woah lets not get too hasty here. but seriously just try it out for a couple hours and see how you feel. like it was said "we are not doctors" and we cannot tell you what you should and shouldn't put in your body.
     

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    #23
    Bluelighter vortex30's Avatar
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    Well did you not say you IVed Fentanyl and it worked out 'great' why do you think this patch is gonna knock you off then? It will surely be more benign than IV.
     

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    #24
    Vortex, thats exactly right! i was given Iv fentanyl in hospital as a test trial before they put me on patches, and it went smooth, the iv fentanyl was actually higher dose then the patches they gave me.

    BUT...when I got home and 8 hours later just when I was happy everything went great I unespectadely had a freak delay respiratory response to it.

    The er doctor said the delayed response is due to is thought to be due to the reentry of fentanyl into plasma from deposits in tissue, muscle, and the gastrointestinal tract, leading to a secondary rise in the plasma concentration whilst in that 8 hour period my body had built up antibodies towards the fent and now saw it as a threat, How can this be?

    I looked online and found this article supporting the dr's claims http://archsurg.ama-assn.org/cgi/con...tract/123/1/66
    Last edited by Unlucky; 10-06-2008 at 14:28.
     

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    #25
    Bluelighter sonnyluv's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unlucky

    BUT...when I got home and 8 hours later just when I was happy everything went great I unespectadely had a freak delay respiratory response to it.
    Explain freaky. There is respiratory depression, severe respiratory depression where I drag my knucles across your sternum in order to evaluate your response to painfull stimuli, and then there is "fill this bitch up with Narcan" respiratory depression.


    Sounds like you had a level one respiratory depression. You anxiety is understandable but I canguarantee you there is not one single MD in America who would unknowingly give a patient too much narcotic with a diagnosed sensitivity to drug. Do as MD has prescribed. Have your parents watch you. If you become unconscious or unresponsive then they know to call 911. Have an epinephrine pen ready, that will keep you alive until the medics get there(this situation is not likely). This is workable, you will be fine.
     

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