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Thread: Methadone and benzos

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    #26
    That's way too much benzos in the post above me. Just my opinion based on my experience of course. I was on a high daily dose in MMT, and I found that benzos had a "higher" effect on me when on methadone. I'd be very careful. The respiratory system is finicky.
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    #27
    Ok I'm on 200mg methadone 1x daily from the clinic and my psychiatrist has had me on a handful of different benzo's over the past few years. I am not only on 200mg done now but 2mg xanax 3x daily. Here's what I dont understand.
    I've never got much of a "buzz" of anykind while on valium, ativan, clonopin or now xanax. I've been on xanax for a year or little more now and I dont notice anything on it. I seem to have a very odd body chemistry. One time 2 years ago when I was at a different clinic I hated the people at, I was at 240mg done everyday, plus valium 10mg 3x daily. Well this one thanksgiving I doubled up my takehomes one or two days in a row, I got a buzz but sadly not a rush or "glow" heroin like buzz.

    That's 240mg+240mg= a whopping 480mg and the 10mg valium 3x daily back then. I was worried, but my Mom and brother were there and we were all together, so I would have spoke up right away if I suddenly nodded and felt OD coming. But all I got was a nice buzz but nothing what I expected.

    Honestly my psychiatrist said to me when I first started mmt in august of 2006 "that's great to hear its working great for you, do you think maybe you dont need the valium or any benzo's anymore" I was afraid and told him that I felt it would be better to "leave well enough alone". I'm surprised that the old clinic and the cool friendly clinic I'm at now, both allowed me to be on the benzo's but are keeping a close eye on me with ekg and echo tests since heart probs run in the family on both sides UGGHH!!.

    I can't go over 200mg, per my new clinic due to my darn skip in my heartbeat "sort of like an engine misfireing alot every so often".

    What do some of you who are more experienced than me have to say?
    would I feel better on my 200mg current dose of methadone liquid, if I tapered off the xanax alltogether?
    Also sadly since I still crave a buzz, I found a nice "combo" I take 2 or 4max at a time 50mg diphenhydramine per gelcap sleeping pills and I do that because it gives me a nice buzzy effect through the night and seems to potentiate the methadone.

    I was advised a few months ago that this is a BAD combo, I wound up in the er, in a horrible "nut ward wing" at the hospital and still suffer some flashbacks from that hell that I got outta right before thanksgiving. I swore I would never take sleeping pills again.

    Yet sadly here I am "living on the edge" again, just a week ago I broke down and bought the same bottles of sleeping pills I was taking before. However this time, I have not "gone crazy" inotherwords just gobbled em up almost every night for a month. I am now able to feel and listen to my body's senses on when to lay low on them for a few days etc.
    I just took 4 sleeping pills last night and felt nice and buzzy half the night, but then I would wake up and feel kind of sad and then go back to bed and try not to think about anything and that trick always helps me fall asleep again real fast.

    I sure as hell dont want to wind up pukeing my brains out from taking them too long when I ended up in the er because of it. So I know I'm walking on very thin ice. Does anyone have any suggestions on how I can very accurately gauge when I should stop the sleep aid immediately to avoid a repeat of "hell"?
    I had cottonmouth last night from the total of 200mg diphenhydramine I took, felt like I had smoked weed before bed but the sleeping pills cause the cottonmouth for me. I have a feeling, my body is giving out a warning to lay low, so I'm not going to take any tonite.

    One last thing, howcome I puked so bad finallly after a month of using diphenhydramine a few months ago, even though I quit them ct for 4 days? I was vomiting for another 3-4 days in the nut ward too and suddenly it went away and I got my appetite back. What's with all the pukeing?

    Only thing I can think of is that since I took the pills for a month, that maybe the diphenhydramine finally built up so toxic in my system that it potentiated the methadone and the xanax and caused something close to an OD. Thank God that didn't happen though.

    Sorry for the long story, wish me luck and thanks in advance for anyones helpful advice.
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    #28
    Bluelighter 'medicine cabinet''s Avatar
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    i am currently on 110mgs of sweet syrupy foulness and when i take benzos, its the only time i can actually feel an opiate like buzz. i think the combo is just enough to "bump up" the methadone. Kpins are my fav bc i still get panic attacks sometimes and they take care of the anxiety but dont grog me out too much, its like that clear lifted feeling i used to get....ahh memories...wouldnt it be great to have zero tolerance for a week lol? get high off a 10mg percocet haha
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    #29
    sorry to come off as a bit uninformed about certain drugs, but I need a little help from any folks who may be able to help. i'm inquiring about the potential harmful effects of mixing methadone and lorazepam (Ativan). Scenario: methadone consumer for nearly five years, 380 mg for the past year/daily. Ativan mixture of 4 mg with methadone. Could this be fatal? what would the first effects usually be? does anyone out there personally know of fatalities produced from the mix of methadone and Ativan? Please help.
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    #30
    ^ Take half the dose of Ativan with your methadone and see.

    You can always take more, but never take less when you swallowed it...
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    factfinder2 
    #31
    thanks Loulou. Actually, I'm a lawyer and I'm investigating the death of a person who was using 380mg of methadone daily. She had been given 4mg of Ativan the day she died, after dosing with the methadone. Her drug history is not entirely known, but she had been getting the methadone legally for about five years. At the hospital, she went into respiratory depression and her heart failed. This is a sad loss for a family. I promised them that I would investigate, but I need to understand more from methadone users. Thank you, folks. Any info will be used to help prevent future losses of this kind.
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    #32
    380mg of methadone is a huge dose, even daily (ie. the person is tolerant to a certain point).

    I wouldn't imagine taking ANY benzo with a dose this huge, let alone 4mg.

    edit: sorry, I didn't see the methadone doseage in your first post.
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    #33
    Bluelighter ro4eva's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by factfinder2 View Post
    thanks Loulou. Actually, I'm a lawyer and I'm investigating the death of a person who was using 380mg of methadone daily. She had been given 4mg of Ativan the day she died, after dosing with the methadone. Her drug history is not entirely known, but she had been getting the methadone legally for about five years. At the hospital, she went into respiratory depression and her heart failed. This is a sad loss for a family. I promised them that I would investigate, but I need to understand more from methadone users. Thank you, folks. Any info will be used to help prevent future losses of this kind.
    This is very sad. My condolences to her family. I have something to say on the matter that may or may not help you out.

    I've been on methadone now for close to 16 months and for about 6 months now I've been taking 250mg daily along with 0.5mg of Xanax 3x daily (I've been on the Xanax for close to 6 years).

    You'd think that by now I'd be tolerant to both the benzo and the methadone but I still catch myself falling asleep at times. Also, I've been told that for the past year or so, I now snore (sometimes loudly) when I sleep. I find this disturbing because ever since I've had my tonsils and nasal polyps surgically removed, I was told I don't snore anymore.

    My point being is that I totally agree with what others have said in this thread (because I seem to be experiencing it first hand) that methadone and benzos don't mix well at all. Even if you're tolerant to both, when you mix them, they seem to potentiate each other in terms of sedation and respiratory depression in a way possibly not usually seen with other opiates/opioids.

    As a result of what I've experienced, I've begun to taper (lower) my methadone dosage by a small amount each week or bi-weekly. That's how scared I am of this.

    In my opinion (I'm not a doctor), this poor girl died because of the extremely high dosage of both medications combined. I believe she was at a dosage range where the therapeutic index is so narrow (the therapeutic dose is very close to the toxic dose - due in part to the extremely high dosages of both (adverse side effects are more pronounced), but also due to the synergistic effect I spoke of) that chances are that a large majority of tolerant patients would not survive that combination at those dosages.

    Methadone is also known to affect the heart directly (it causes lengthened QT intervals which for some patients can be dangerous). This is why (clinics here anyways) require that patients have an ECG done at the start of treatment with methadone and also every additional 100mg of methadone prescribed to that patient (i.e. 2nd ECG if patient begins to take more than 100mg daily; 3rd ECG if that patient is now on 200mg daily; 4th ECG at 300mg, etc.).

    Again, it's always sad around here (since we focus on harm reduction when using drugs at BlueLight) when someone dies from drug use and therefore I'd like to extend my sympathies to the departed's family. May she rest in peace.
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    Factfinder2 
    #34
    Thank you so much Ro4eva and Loulou. As a lawyer, I always try to go to the best source, and what I've found so far is that the consumers offer better information than do the doctors themselves. The docs try to find a way to blame the consumers for their behavior.......a kind of shrug-off to the problem........with little sympathy to the loss of life. Anyway, I'm doing this investigation pro bono and I told the family that I would work to get some kind of answer. One more thing..................this poor girl went to the emergency room the day before she died. The ambulance report stated that she was having a seizure. The hospital released her (in dirty clothes) several hours later. My research into medical journals shows that she either went into a drug-induced seizure from an overdose, or, she was experiencing withdrawal. I don't know which it was. She went to the hospital the next day, with 380 mgs of methadone and was administered 4mg of Ativan. She died soon thereafter, leaving behind a mother and a five-year old daughter.
    All sympathies posted here are sincerely appreciated. Any additional insights or theories are welcome. I'm seeking closure for the distressed family involved.
    Factfinder2.
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    #35
    Bluelighter ro4eva's Avatar
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    Probably the best thing to do at this point would be to wait for toxicology results to see what drugs the pathologist finds in her system and go from there.

    Regardless, 4 mg of lorazepam is a very high therapeutic dose for a tolerant patient, let alone someone who isn't. Makes me wonder if she was a regular benzo user (prescribed or illegal).
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    #36
    Sounds like you have a very high tolorance to pharmasuticles period. I was on 240 a day throughout the day from pain management and took a lot of benzos. NOT TO GET HIGH just to take the edge off. NOW my METH clinic just started do detox me because I don't have a RX for them. It's nothing more then their fear of being sued if I die. I have been taking valum for over 30 years and methadone for eight and I'm still here. ONLYWANT that's a lot of shit at one time but your still here right? EVERY INDIVIDUALE HAS A DIFERANT BODY CHEMITSRY LIKE YOU SAID. I am so sick of this counrty an the state of NJ ever since they changed the laws in 2007 and took the 40mg tabs off the public market so the goverment can get their greedy hands on the kickbacks everything went to shit. This goverment is a joke. Look at other countrys, Do they have the crime we do because of drugs not being leagle? if our goverment cannot control everything then their not happy. AND WE SUFFER.
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    #37
    Quote Originally Posted by loulou reed View Post
    380mg of methadone is a huge dose, even daily (ie. the person is tolerant to a certain point).

    I wouldn't imagine taking ANY benzo with a dose this huge, let alone 4mg.

    edit: sorry, I didn't see the methadone doseage in your first post.
    yea no Fucking shit fuckkk. 380mgs of methadone is just Way too much methadone but it is true some hiv patients on mmt may require higher than normal doses on certain hiv meds. Ativan is Very intoxicating to me and Im on xanax and mmt. I neverhad any issues with benzos and methadone at All. But Ativan makes me Stumble. Its tbe Only benzo that makes me just feel tired and its funny because some think its weak. if the dead girl had no benzo tolerance and was seekung a buzz which pisses me off when you are on a mmt program tbh sorry my personal feelings then that could easily cause respitory depression.
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    #38
    Quote Originally Posted by augestwest View Post
    Sounds like you have a very high tolorance to pharmasuticles period. I was on 240 a day throughout the day from pain management and took a lot of benzos. NOT TO GET HIGH just to take the edge off. NOW my METH clinic just started do detox me because I don't have a RX for them. It's nothing more then their fear of being sued if I die. I have been taking valum for over 30 years and methadone for eight and I'm still here. ONLYWANT that's a lot of shit at one time but your still here right? EVERY INDIVIDUALE HAS A DIFERANT BODY CHEMITSRY LIKE YOU SAID. I am so sick of this counrty an the state of NJ ever since they changed the laws in 2007 and took the 40mg tabs off the public market so the goverment can get their greedy hands on the kickbacks everything went to shit. This goverment is a joke. Look at other countrys, Do they have the crime we do because of drugs not being leagle? if our goverment cannot control everything then their not happy. AND WE SUFFER.
    dude the tabs and th shit is fucked because people who are on mmt like to think that it doesnt matter if they try to catch a buzz then die and make the drug look bad while responsible people suffer from the end result as well. I really think taking benzos to get abuzz is wack. its clearly not smart with methadone especially to the inexperienced
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    #39
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    I'm in NYC on the clinic, 80mg a day with 2-3 sticks (2mg Xanax bars) sometimes I throw in a .3mg Catapress(Clonodine). The blood pressure pill is a way to get a nice nod once your Benson habit gets large. Just. Be careful ODs are commonplace among my methadonian circle in Manhattan

    Also whoever said the 40mg wafers orange and white are off the market that's incorrect my clinic gives me orange 40mg wafers and an acquaintance of mine is perscribed them.
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    #40
    Quote Originally Posted by BlueLightBeam View Post
    That's way too much benzos in the post above me. Just my opinion based on my experience of course. I was on a high daily dose in MMT, and I found that benzos had a "higher" effect on me when on methadone. I'd be very careful. The respiratory system is finicky.
    I know this is a bump, but I found this thread using search/google and DON'T LISTEN TO THIS GUY. I REPEAT DO NOT LISTEN TO THIS GUY.

    Most people who dont have a tolerance to benzos shouldnt even be taking more than 1 mg. If you have a 2 mg bar then make sure u only take half first to see how you feel. Xanax are REALLY strong and if you make the mistake of what I did and start taking 2 bars at once then your going to fuck up your tolerance and need to take that much everytime if you build up a tolerance by taking 2 at a time. People I know take 1 mg football or break a 2 mg bar in half and that is more than enough.

    Why do you think they prescribe .25 mg, .50 mg and 1 mg footballs. Because they are strong as fuck.

    Just like this guy said. IT IS WAY too much. I personally need 2-4 mg to even feel bars since I fucked up and always thought you needed more than 1 bar to get fucked up on them and now I am hating my self for doing that as I LOVE bars and it makes me jelly that my friends can take 1 football and be fucked up. Even stopping for a year I still need to take 1-2 bars to feel fucked up.

    This guy that bluelightbeam quoted is an IDIOT for saying someone else might need 4-10 mg of bars would be ok. Especially mixed with methadone.
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    #41
    Can anyone here tell me if its OK to take 2mg koloapln with 15 mg of oxy? Just want a chill high
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    #42
    Greenlighter bleeding_lily's Avatar
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    I've OD'ed twice from that combination and both times I just fell asleep and didn't wake up till the ambulance narcon'ed me. To me it if you are on too much methadone it seems like a waste because I always just fall asleep after I take the xanax and don't even get to enjoy the high, but if you are out doing something and not staying still it can be very enjoyable and euphoric, however, know your limits. Pushing your limit to get a better high is the reason opiate users OD, eventually the only way to get high is to bring yourself to the brink of death and just hope you didn't take 1 xanax too many, or 10mg too much extra methadone.[/QUOTE]

    Ive od'd twice first time on hyrdos second time on mix of benadryll+vyvanse+methadone.so the advice I can give is,DeadheadChemistry is right.methadone isn't easy to mix,especially with something like vyvanse.(if you've ever thought about mixing the two)so....if you haven't tried that yet,dont lol.and I am the same,i hated Xanax cause every f'n time I took it I passed out. I took 7 tabs once cause I was pissed off then passed out around 7pm and woke up at 8pm the next night -_-
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    #43
    Bluelighter Keif' Richards's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lionhearted1122 View Post
    Can anyone here tell me if its OK to take 2mg koloapln with 15 mg of oxy? Just want a chill high
    From a safe HR point of view, one should never mix any CNS depressants.

    In reality and IMHO, mixing 2mg with 15mg Oxycodone is not a huge deal. Even with no tolerance I would say the worst consequence would be a few hours worth of napping and missing out on your high. Some people are hypersensitive to certain medications, so this ballpark estimate is not all-inclusive.

    You know your body the best and how these substances will effect you.
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    #44
    Thanks for the info. Just rants Jane a chill no stress night. Should I take the same time?
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