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    insulfating Suboxone vs. sublingual ( not trying to get high ) 
    #1
    I recently started suboxone maintenance, I'm taking 4 milligrams 4 times per day, now before you say, "great another thread by somebody trying to get high off suboxone", that isn't what this is about.

    I'm simply wondering if insulfating (snorting) suboxone is a better route of administration than sublingual, because one, its hard for me to sit there for 20-30 minutes with a mouth full of nasty tasting saliva, and two, when taken under the tongue, doesn't the suboxone just absorb through your mucus membranes? So snorting would be the same thing right?, just a lot easier to ingest.

    I'm also wondering if snorting the subs is bad for you in any way, like more Naloxone getting into your system? Thanks for any info.
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    #2
    Well since suboxone is absorbed via the bucal membranes you could always plug it. Dissolve the medication in about 10ml of water and then right up the ol bum.... should get the job done just lay on your side for about 15 to 20min, but you have to use water just dont shove the pill up there......
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    #3
    never been a fan of plugging, always been an "exit only" kinda person when it comes to my ass :P
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    #4
    Bluelight Crew BingeBoy's Avatar
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    I think 10 minutes is more than enough really when holding it in the mouth


    obviously snorting is instantaneous

    however i recommend not fucking around with your medicine even if you dont want to get high


    I used to iv it and never got me high except for the first few times but i was just hooked to the needle


    over time you will damage you septum with snorting it and wont be able to switch back to sublingual
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    #5
    Why are you dosing 4 times a day?
    I've experimented with various dose schedules, and IME, I've found the best schedule to be once a day. AFAIK, that's what most doctors recommend.
    Meh, I just find the qid a little odd for a drug with such a long half-life.



    As far as BA is concerned, snorting is better. I've heard reports of it being 20% better. You don't have to worry about the naloxone with any roa, bupe's affinity is higher.


    Since you're taking 16mg, I wouldn't consider snorting an easier roa. That's a lot of nasty fucking powder you're putting up your nose. And the drip sucks.

    I'd just tough it out and take it sublingually once a day. You'll get used to the nasty taste, I swear. If you take them long enough, you'll even start looking forward to it and associating it with relief.
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    #6
    I hate "+1" posts but the phrozen is right on every point.
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    #7
    Quote Originally Posted by phrozen
    Why are you dosing 4 times a day?
    That's what I was wondering, it doesn't make any sense imo.
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    #8
    My thoughts in bold:

    I recently started suboxone maintenance, I'm taking 4 milligrams 4 times per day, now before you say, "great another thread by somebody trying to get high off suboxone", that isn't what this is about. As many have said, there's no reason to dose 4x/day. Suboxone is designed so you only have to take it once a day. I suppose I could see dosing twice a day, but 4x is just overkill.

    I'm simply wondering if insulfating (snorting) suboxone is a better route of administration than sublingual, because one, its hard for me to sit there for 20-30 minutes with a mouth full of nasty tasting saliva, and two, when taken under the tongue, doesn't the suboxone just absorb through your mucus membranes? So snorting would be the same thing right?, just a lot easier to ingest. Snorting has a higher bioavailability - provided you snort it just right and don't let it drip resulting in you swallowing it (oral bioavailability is much lower than both snorting and sublingual). If you take suboxone enough sublingually, you learn different tactics and whatnot. Its much easier for me to do now than it was when I first started. It also absorbs faster because I know exactly where to keep it and how salivated my mouth should be when I take it, to make sure its either (1) not super-dry cotton mouth or (2) salivating like hell which causes a mouthful of liquid.

    I'm also wondering if snorting the subs is bad for you in any way, like more Naloxone getting into your system? No matter what you do, the naloxone will not have any effect. Buprenorphine binds stronger to opiate receptors, so even if the naloxone was absorbed, it wouldn't be active. Naloxone doesn't even reverse buprenorpine overdoses like it does with almost every other opiate. Thanks for any info.

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    More thoughts:

    Now really, if you're on maintenance, you really should take your suboxone sublingually. Snorting them is just holding on to a relic of drug-abusing past. I'll admit, I've snorted my suboxone a few times before, but in the end its not worth it. The times I've done it were either (1) I was terribly sick and wanted to get it in me as fast as possible, (2) I was running low and had to make one days worth last two days, or (3) a desperate attempt to get high, which didnt work. I take 4mg a day, and even if I take huge amounts like 24-32mg, it doesn't even give me a buzz. Which is great, because I have no desire to abuse it.

    As for the 4mg that I take each morning. It holds me over just fine dosing once. In fact, I can skip days, which I've done because I stay somewhere overnight and don't bring any with me, or sometimes because I just forget. The fact that I can just go a day forgetting to take my bupe and not feel sick or feel cravings is amazing to me. Bupe really is a beautiful drug for opiate maintenance/detoxification. I realize that You've just started, so it will take you a while before you can equalize and be steady on the drug. For now, I recommend you start taking your bupe twice a day, 8mg each time, sublingually, then ultimately once a day. Maybe your metabolism is different than mine, I don't know, but anyone I've ever known is fine with once a day dosing.

    From there, you should lower your dose. I had a very large oxycodone/heroin habit for years, and right as I got onto bupe 4mg held me just fine. Actually, 2mg holds me also, but I take 4mg because it gives me slight pain relief on protruding discs I have in my neck as well as a shoulder problem. What I'm saying is you could easily get by on lower doses, bupe is odd like that. You will find that you can take a fraction of your dose and not even feel a difference; I'm sure you heard people say "less is more" with regards to bupe. It really is true. Try taking lower doses - it will be easier on your body, give you less side effects, save you money, and ultimately, whenever the time comes that you want to taper off, make that a whole lot easier.

    Now, you don't necessarily have to listen to my words. I can promise to you that I know what I'm talking about when it comes to buprenorphine therapy, and the drug itself. It's just one guy on suboxone talking to another. I've been on it for a long time, and seen many others go on and off of it; you could say I've been around the bupe block. If you ever have any questions, concerns, etc about suboxone, please ask me, PM me. This goes for anyone, actually. I really do care, and I'm here to help.

    Good luck on your journey,
    JC
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    #9
    Sorry didn't reply sooner had some problems with my computer, I'm actually taking 4 milligrams three times a day, made a typo.

    I have no idea why my bupe doctor put me on that dosage frequency, I started off taking 2 milligram twice a day for a week, went back and told her it was helping but I was still having cravings so she tripled my dose, half of an 8 mg pill three times a day.

    I've already learned in the short time I've been on it less is more, I can take 2 milligrams and feel fine, it seems like the more I take the worse I feel for some reason, not really a bad feeling just tired and zombified.

    I did find one thing that helps taking them under the tongue is to crush them first, seems they absorb faster that way so I don't have to hold them in my mouth as long. Its hard ( for me anyway ) to go 20-30 minutes without swallowing, especially when I have a mouth full of saliva.

    If I crush them then put the under my tongue they're pretty much absorbed in 10 minutes tops.
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    #10
    i'll take the taste of sniffing suboxone over the taste of sublingual suboxone any day.

    but as far as not using it to get high, just let it dissolve in your mouth.
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    #11
    well, i wanted to pm you dude, but the shit wouldnt let me so here it is, help please if you can. ok, if you want to answer, cool, if not, thats ok too. heres the deal. i was on methadone 130 mgs daily for 4 years but moved south to try to stop (for the second time, the first time stayed clean SQUEEEEEEKY clean for two years) well, things got bad and instead of piddlin around i just jumped back on the damn clinic. and plus i was buyin bottles from other patients now and then, you know. the thing is, i tappered myself down to 40 mgs of the pills here, then drank a ton of grapefruit juice for my last dose to make it stretch (cuz of the enzyme, you know). anyway, i was gettin by for 3 days on 2 darvacets every few hours!! well, my connect didnt come thru with more methadone, so i have had a toooon of suboxone saved up for when i was ready. heres the reason for the post. i took 4 mg and got SICK AS A FUCKING DOOOOOOOOOOG laid here in agony alllllll day, allllll night, and i STILL feel terrible and now i just railed an 8 mg pill cuz i cant take this shit no more! for some reason i cant handle withdrawl like i used to and what im really asking, is one thing, why am i still so damn sick, and two, if i eat more and more will it go away?? see, im kinda screwed here. now that ive put bupe in my body i cant even go back, it wont help. any advice?
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    #12
    Bluelighter chrisinabox's Avatar
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    you can't private message ppl b/c you are a greenlighter, you have to have at least 20 posts i believe to do that.

    and the reason you got sick was prolly cause of precipitated withdrawal. it depends how long it was after your last dose that you took the suboxone. if you did not wait long enough, then that is why you went into a horrible withdrawal. don't know why its lasting so long tho.
    Last edited by Mr Blonde; 09-01-2009 at 14:01. Reason: Removed reference to removed post
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    #13
    Bluelighter Mr Blonde's Avatar
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    skelit0re; you are supposed to wait until your are already in WD before taking the sub.
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    #14
    BL Ambassador Captain.Heroin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phrozen View Post
    Why are you dosing 4 times a day?
    I could see this being the case, I can sublingually 2 to 4 times a day with suboxone, depending on the amount of stuff I have to do.
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    #15
    I used to smoke them, yes smoke them! For months! But it worked so good I would get dizzy, or maybe that was nasty side effects from fillers. I find the buzz from suboxone is not good at all. I have tried everything, snorting them, smoking, not swallowing spit. Now I just take 6 mg twice a day orally holding it under my tongue for an hour. I always wondered how long to hold it, soca and pharmacists always say until it dissolves. When I was getting bupes on the streets to avoid withdrawals I wanted every microgram in my system to avoid withdrawals. I have not taken a opiate in three years. Only extacy every so often. And Xanax for my horrible passing out panic attacks.

    We live in a bittersweet period in opiate addiction. Oxy s are making more opiate addicts in modern history who often turn to dope when Oxy s cost too much or can't find any. On the sweet side suboxone is out there to help. Thank goodness for suboxone, I just wish I could get off it too! I tried once, was down to a crumb a day, my appitite for drugs at this low level was too dangerous and I felt no motivation to do anything with bad depression , so I went back on it.
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    #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Streetvan1997 View Post
    I used to smoke them, yes smoke them! For months! But it worked so good I would get dizzy, or maybe that was nasty side effects from fillers. I find the buzz from suboxone is not good at all. I have tried everything, snorting them, smoking, not swallowing spit. Now I just take 6 mg twice a day orally holding it under my tongue for an hour. I always wondered how long to hold it, soca and pharmacists always say until it dissolves. When I was getting bupes on the streets to avoid withdrawals I wanted every microgram in my system to avoid withdrawals. I have not taken a opiate in three years. Only extacy every so often. And Xanax for my horrible passing out panic attacks.

    We live in a bittersweet period in opiate addiction. Oxy s are making more opiate addicts in modern history who often turn to dope when Oxy s cost too much or can't find any. On the sweet side suboxone is out there to help. Thank goodness for suboxone, I just wish I could get off it too! I tried once, was down to a crumb a day, my appitite for drugs at this low level was too dangerous and I felt no motivation to do anything with bad depression , so I went back on it.
    You may want to try maintaining on a dose lower than 1mg/day. You might notice that you get nice euphoric effects at this small dose. It works for me and many other people I know. It has to do with bupes metabolite norbupernorphine which is a full agonist like heroin or oxy. You can look it up on BL by doing a search. You would need to maintain at this dose for atleast a couple weeks for your brain and body to adjust to it so you can start to feel any euphoria. But of course this doesnt work for everyone. Nothing works for everyone. but I would say its worth giving it a try......even if it doesnt work atleast you will be maintaining no a much lower dose of suboxone, which is healthier for you.
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    #17
    Bluelighter SkagKush's Avatar
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    maybe do 8mg subling in the AM, and dose 2mg by snorting in the PM. you prob dont need 16mg.
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    #18
    Bluelighter toolfan420's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Streetvan1997 View Post
    I used to smoke them, yes smoke them! For months! But it worked so good I would get dizzy
    jesus fucking christ.
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    My 2 cents 
    #19
    Question
    I have an unusual history especially for a Republican--7 years on heroin, 28 years clean, 4 years on opiate prescriptions, 1-1/2 years on legal Suboxone, with 13 "take-outs" between visits to the clinic. I only take 8MG. I could probably get the Clinic to up me to 12, but would face a divorce if I did. I've been married 39 years and my wife still has a caboose that most 20 somethings would kill for. 12 sub lingual is ideal for me. I find that 6MG of tonguage plus only 2 of snortage is about equal to 12 of only oral. Could I be right? Will a mere 2 MG a day up the snout cause future problems? Inquiring morons want to know.
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    #20
    Bluelighter toothpastedog's Avatar
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    If you read some of the previous posts, such as Phrozen's and JC's, you'll see that snorthing/using suboxone intranasally on a daily basis is going to surely cause you problems long terms. I used to snort it on and off, probably around a total of 8mg/day for periods of 4-14 days without any problems.
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    #21
    Bluelighter
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    I see this "20% increase in BA by snorting" number tossed around a lot but until someone shows me the peer-reviewed paper in a highly-regarded journal where a respected, trained individual with an advanced degree studied the pharmacology of sub specifically looking at the BA in different ROAs (including insufflation vs. submucosal) I won't believe it.

    If you find the tablets are taking too long to dissolve, ask your physician to write your script for the film (i.e., "strips") instead. They dissolve very quickly, in a matter of just a few minutes.
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    #22
    ^ It's a 20% increase only if you're judging a sublingual dose out of 100%. It's ~30% sublingual (high-dose tablets) and ~50% intranasal, so it's actually nearly a 100% increase. Search and you will find the references you're looking for (yes, from medical journals).
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    #23
    Bluelighter Znegative's Avatar
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    I believe the number are correct, as I've used suboxone with pretty much every ROA, except for smoking them. Sublingual is definately 30%-40% tops. I let my strips dissolve for about twenty minutes, and I pretty much generally get the same effect out of them every time. If I iv them, .15mg shots give me the same effect as my .5mg sublingual dosage. And back when I was on the tablets I was shooting about .8mg a day for months. I had to take a trip for my grandfathers funeral, so I switched to insflation as I didn't want to get caught carrying around a bunch of rigs in my back pack. I decided to sniff 1mg a day, and adjusted to that dosage after a couple days and stayed on it for about two weeks till I got home when I started injecting again. From that point on until my relapse on full agonist, I did a total of three .2mg shots a day for a total of .6mg, which would translate into 2 mg sublingual. There's a lot of math involved with this shit, but from my experience I do believe insufflation raises the BA 50%. However, I never found that ROA to be any more euphoric than sublingual and for that fact, the only advantage I found in iv was the ability to get a nice lift dosing multiple times a day, and that I was able to use full agonists less than 24 hours after my last shot of sub.

    IMO you should just stick to one roa, otherwise your going to be fucking up your tolerance and not receiving a steady dose of your suboxone. I would insufflated or plug now only if I had to stretch my buprenorphine out longer. If anyone finds insufflation or pluggin more euphoric, it's most likely because their absorbing more of the drug and that glow will only last a few days before tolerance settles back in. The best way to maintain and get euphoria is to take dosages of two mg or under. Some people theorize that the reason for less is more is because buprenorphines metabolite, norbuprenorphine has room to occupy receptors not filled by bupe. Tis could be the case, but it could also be that it's just because at lower dosages of bupe, the drop of the drug in blood levels is more noticeable and the receptors are not fully saturated, which would then make each dosage create more euphoria. It's kind of like how when you're on heroin, you feel higher the longer you wait for your next shot
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    #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by jazz hands View Post
    ^ It's a 20% increase only if you're judging a sublingual dose out of 100%. It's ~30% sublingual (high-dose tablets) and ~50% intranasal, so it's actually nearly a 100% increase. Search and you will find the references you're looking for (yes, from medical journals).
    I've done that and have come up blank (and I know how to interpret the primary literature). So, where's the reference?
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    #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Znegative View Post
    I believe the number are correct, as I've used suboxone with pretty much every ROA, except for smoking them. Sublingual is definately 30%-40% tops. ...There's a lot of math involved with this shit, but from my experience I do believe insufflation raises the BA 50%.
    Do you believe or do you know?
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