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☛ Official ☚ [Mushrooms Subthread] Different Strains & Cultivation

I just mixed my colonized cakes (Penis Envy breed) with bulk substrate inside a baking tin foil, covered it with the cover that came with it (white plastic see-through so it should be perfect if I have to put it out of the dark for some light), punctured 9 holes (I was told to do this so "it" can breath). It's been 3 days already, I don't see any change at all. Did I use too much bulk substrate? I mixed it with the colonized substrate (crumbled in about 12 pieces to spread it out), I hope it wasn't too "buried" in the bulk substrate (if this makes a difference?). I kept the whole "fruiting chamber" under my kitchen cabinet where it's dark, room temperature varies from 70-75 degrees (when I'm home it's 75, when I leave I set the temperature to 70). Does the penis envy breed require light (12 on, 12 off?). Does the bulk substrate have to turn white as well before any fruiting/pinning begins? I always thought that after I mix the colonized substrate with the bulk substate, I just simply wait for it to pin and fruit.
 
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nothing seems to say how difficult they are to actually grow.

I think a more reasonable way of looking at it is percentage success. I think if pretty much anyone colonised 20 jars they'd get 1 or 2 successful jars with 18 contaminated. If things go well you might get 10 out of 20. With a bit more difficulty you'll get 15 out of 20 etc.
 
Ongos, 3 days is nothing. I already told you after crumbling it can take about as long for the mycelium to recover before it starts growing again let alone cover all the surface and gaps and everything. It's pretty simple: just be patient for once and wait until it either turns white and 'ropey' or fluffy... or green or wet-looking and smelly or presenting any of the other signs of contamination. I can't believe I told you like 10 times already to give it more time. :\

In any case good luck.

Talking about case...it would have been preferable if you had used casing to cover the trays. It both protects against contamination and drying out since it can store water. There should not be nutrients in there other wise it can promote growing of contamination after all.

I don't think trays used for baking (I use the aluminum ones as well, good choice if you ask me) are deep enough for chunks of mycelium to be buried too deep. The substrate should be porous enough for gas exchange and not cause suffocation unless you would really dump an unreasonable heap on the myc.

Typically the mycelium orchestrates colonization and pinning unless it is very noticeably asymmetrically colonized. Once reaching the surface there is some gathering of momentum before pinning is initiated. It is wise to keep it all in the dark before you see that the entire surface is white. Whenever you check (not necessary to do every single day) just try to minimize the time you hold it in the light to see well. Then once all is white I'd add a few more days to be sure that it is also completely colonized underground and then constantly expose it to some light from that point on. They are not plants, more light is not necessarily better because they don't photosynthesize. Some is enough, to serve as a signal that it has reached the surface and can start pinning. The suddenness of switching to exposure to light adds to the timing to try and initiate fruiting of a flush as evenly as possible.

Also I am in the process of getting some new spores of strains I have not cultivated yet. I don't know which one I will use because it depends on availability. It is not all that certain I will be able to cultivate, for a few reasons. But if I am, it would be splendid if I can extract the mushrooms and try and crystallize the alkaloids, then keep them in vacuum in the freezer. In my native language this is what is called 'music of the future' though: nice plans, but we'll see what will come of them.
 
1 of 8 of my grow bags have turned white, the other 7 remained the same (wild bird seed). No sign of growth, change or contamination though so I'll just let it sit there either way (maybe I injected center thus the white stuff is probably forming mid-center).

I think a more reasonable way of looking at it is percentage success. I think if pretty much anyone colonised 20 jars they'd get 1 or 2 successful jars with 18 contaminated. If things go well you might get 10 out of 20. With a bit more difficulty you'll get 15 out of 20 etc.
 
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Has anybody ever tried any p. subcubensis mushrooms that were almost marshmallowy in size, shape and slightly in appearance as well? I ate a single gram of that strain and it was a more intense trip than I have ever had on mushrooms before, even though I've eaten up to 4 grams of some pretty good shrooms at once.
Im just wondering, how does one mushroom have such a huge difference in potency than another, is it like marijuana where the quality is highly dependant on how well it is cultivated, or is it the strain itself?
 
Subcubensis are not more potent than Cubensis: http://www.shroomery.org/9644/Psilocybe-subcubensis
Cubensis v. Matias Romero are apparently often short and stocky (though not necessarily!), or otherwise perhaps Penis Envy if the caps tend not to spread out or not far, or maybe Red Spore.

@second question:
As with cannabis it's both, but growing conditions are relatively more important and the choice of the substrain has a less consistent result. There has to be the right nutrients in the substrate so that the metabolism works properly. I'm not sure if there is consensus in the scientific community that psilocybin is an insect deterrent like natural cannabinoids, but I imagine that the mushrooms make the best of what they have. There are enzymes synthesized that are involved with the alkaloid pathway, recall the German research on adding tryptamines to the substrate. I wonder if supplementing the substrate with L-tryptophan works. Of course there is a ceiling.

About strains, I still think that the differences between Cubensis substrains are exaggerated. Genetics are definitely an important factor regarding the potential for certain properties like number of fruits, size, number of aborts, if they are short and stocky, tendency for caps to spread wide or keeping bulbous for longer and also alkaloid content. But, although some potency may vary between substrains I think there is more variance within the substrains.
A couple of things besides supplementing your substrate that should help boost potency are casing, providing all the nutrients (like a pinch of calcium sulphate / gypsum for example), keeping a close eye on all cultivation parameters like temperature and humidity and switching to poo as a substrate should also be successful.
But every substrain has it's limits. If they produce more fruitbodies the size will be smaller or the amount of flushes will be. Fast growing mushrooms just tend to absorb more water which is not going to do you much good. (but it's not usually bad either).
I don't really know if there is a downside to fast colonizers. It may be possible that mycelium that rushes to be strong and abundant spends relatively more energy and nutrients in that phase and it may come at the cost of the fruiting bodies. I'm not really sure. AFAIK, South-American and other tropical (as opposed to subtropical) substrains tend to have this trait but I never heard about them being lame fruiters in the end. It would make sense though, if you get fewer flushes from them relative to other types.
Another thing is that not every substrain is the same even though they may be sold under the same name. Once they are named there is a common ancestor so to speak, like specimen that are found in certain parts in the world and being called after the country, or after the discoverer, etc. After that they are propagated and each go their own way. The ones that are cultivated with general breeding selection (printing the beautiful ones but not the lame fruits) or better yet using petri-dishes and mycelium morphology selection get maxed out to their best potential over time while those that are just randomly propagated are only selected by natural selection, the survival of the fastest germinating spores.
I think that with well-selected ones you can still plunge back because if you use normal multi-spore propagation it is just a genetic crapshoot. As long as you do that there will be random variables and the result will remain somewhat unpredictable and inconsistent.

If you want very potent cubensis mushrooms maybe your best choice is PESA, they tried hard to make a potent substrain and apparently they have good potential. But if you grow them amateuristically they just probably won't reach that potential so there are no guarantees I'm afraid.

If there were a magic solution to all of this, it probably would not be a secret now would it? :) Instead, check the shroomery and how they emphasize on all the different factors that together contribute to a solid product, together with adding more and more advanced techniques as you go along. That's the only way to really get better at it and achieve success.

I know people prefer the sight of a proper mushroom when they eat them or buy them from their source, but I would personally get an electric coffee grinder somewhere, and as you get a stash of mushrooms during your grows I would save them up and when you get a good amount, grind them all together. That way you homogenize your batch. IMO what is more important than trying to get the most potent mushrooms with the least amount of effort is to be able to know what to expect of your batch. With homogenization your trips may still vary but it should not catch you off guard with super weak and super strong mushroom specimen among them. Once you test your batch you can adjust your dose accordingly. Yes, you will have mushroom dust instead of whole shrooms but seems like the smart thing to do to me.
The fact that there are sometimes super weak and super strong mushrooms by the way, comes from the multi-spore thing. Using a normal spore print or syringe will yield mushrooms that are all genetically different. Some can be mutants, some big, some small, etc. If you would use a procedure to get a monoculture you effectively get clones that are much more alike (though still, like human twins there are still differences).
 
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Yes I do believe you but are you saying this was consistently true? Over how many trips? If they were only few in number then this poses no statistical relevance.

Also I don't think they are marshmallow-y, those sorts of caps are seen across the wide spectrum of Cubensis types.
 
Well, I went through the erowid vault searching for ones that look the same, and those were the only ones that had the same relative shape and size.

And personally I only did those 2 times in the good 3 weeks they were still coming around. The first time is the 1 gram experience I described earlier. The second time, I decided to up the dose to 2 grams, and I have to say this was a major mistake. I tripped harder than even I can really remember. I also threw up from the 2 gram experience, but I think that was more because of the fact that I had eaten alot of foods that day that normally mess with my stomach anyways. So I think the shrooms just added to the nausea. But that trip was actually highly unenjoyable and I try not to even really ponder over it as it still bothers me slightly.
 
Okay fair enough :) I still think your batch was probably a strong one rather than the whole subspecies being one that is about 3 times as strong as regular Cubenses (!), unless they were not another subspecies but a really different kind of Psilocybes like Azurescens or Cyanescens. For those the dose is indeed about 1 gram. I trust you can distinguish between Cubensis and those types though?

Anyway I don't think an ID rule should be enforced right now but it seems a bit pointless to try and find out what type you took. Were they hunted and picked or grown indoor though?
 
I was told they were "lab" grown which I just assume means grown in an indoor setup by someone with a fair amount of experience.
 
Here in the Netherlands mushrooms were always cultivated in groweries that in a way resemble labs, nowadays since the mushroom ban they grow truffles (sclerotia) under lab-like - carefully controlled - conditions. Actually I got a free dose of new breed of truffles (P. Hollandia) vacusealed that are apparently possible to store fresh/wet for months. Which indicates clean conditions.
It's conceivable that there exist underground growing labs in other countries that produce monocultured mushrooms. If so, I imagine they would do their best to make quite potent shit.

I don't know if you got them fresh, considering you called them marshmellow-like... that would point more towards a smaller-scale growing operation but still like you say I guess they were experienced. Lab grown also sounds like indoor so I don't think they were Hawaiian mushrooms (Azures).

Anyway this is a cultivation thread and we don't do IDing so I don't know what the hell I keep talking about. :)
Let's focus on the DIY growing discussion shall we?
 
Haha well you are being very informative and helpful so don't fret.
And they were dehydrated mushrooms, however I'm not sure as to when they had been actually harvested.
 
The grow bags I have (wild bird seed) look dry as if no sign of any thing so if all else fail, will injecting the bags again (with sterile water, the ones that are for injection so I know it's sterile fully) perhaps produce the needed moisture? Is this a bad procedure?
 
I thought your bulk subtrate was compost. Are you talking about something else now? WBS grow bags should have instructions what to do with them exactly. What frame of reference do you have to compare wetness? :) Normally speaking (I use WBS in DIY style) you first let the seeds soak in water for a day, the contaminations in the core of the kernels then germinate and start growing. Then I pressure cook and sterilize, that way everything is dead, even the germ seedlings in the very cores. Then the seeds are pretty wet I guess. If you limit gas exchange to a filter patch there should not be that much moisture loss.

So what went wrong? Or what makes you think it's not wet. Was it more wet before?

OK so in theory yes with water that is really sterile (boil for more than just a minute, keep boiling it for a while longer) you can rehydrate but just be careful not to over-hydrate just because the outside looks a bit dry or whatever.

And I have no idea how long you have been waiting for colonization right now. I guess if all else fails it's an option. But if any bacteria are in there adding water will be a feast for them. For your mycelium the right water content is just the water that is contained within the seeds themselves, not some goopy stuff.
 
u sure about this? from what someone told me mushrooms are not plants therefore it does not photosynthesize therefore the light thing is probably not necessary. I see what you're saying though regarding how mushrooms grow in nature (it sees both light and dark, cold and warm). my jars colonized in the dark, I'm in the process of fruiting this now. I mixed the cakes with bulk substrate and mixed them, I see the bulk substrate turning white when it was all black before. it's taking a long time (about 3 weeks now and I see no fruit). I kept it in the dark, is it time to let it see some light? It's the penis envy breed.

35 C is far too high. That's like 95 F. A better temp is closer to 80 to 82 F or 26 to 27 C. Certainly the myc will survive, but the higher you go above 82 or so, the more susceptible you'll be to contamination taking over the grow. Colonization should be done in the dark, like it is in nature. Light is one of the pinning triggers, so, once colonized, then put it in the light. Another fruiting trigger for azures is the temperature. For azures, you'll want something around 50 F or about 10 C. The thing to remember always about indoor growing is that you're trying to reproduce what nature does, so, look to what nature has them growing at for the growth of the myc and then to overnight temperatures you'd have for the region for azures for the season that they fruit in. I know that azures grow in Europe, but the azures and cyans that I know more of fruit from late fall all the way through to spring on the west coast of the US. More northerly areas lose them completely during winter, but further south, it's all winter long, depending on the area.
 
This is a different medium. I'm talking about something else. I have this wild bird seed grow bag: http://www.mushbox.co/wbs-wild-bird-seed-bag.html

I have 8 of these, only 1 colonized. The one that colonized seem to have moisture as it was colonizing, the rest looked dry as if it's still in its original state as if no activity, I injected all bags same amount of spores. To check for activity in the center, I shook the wild bird seed in the bag and it does look and feel and sound dry, no colonization at all, so I think I need to rehydrate it. But it has been several months (3-4?), did the spore just about die? I'm not sure if my heat setting in my apartment was to blame (70-75 degrees). I see no sign of contamination at all. Should I place it by my window where cold air comes in a bit? I have it stored in my kitchen cabinet where it's dark.

If I can inject sterile water, I'd make sure to buy those sterile water for injection. I do have some bacteriostatic water/sodium chloride, will this work? This is the same exact product: http://www.mountainside-medical.com...e-Injection-USP-0.9%-Bacteriostatic-30ml.html

Could this kill the spore?

I thought your bulk subtrate was compost. Are you talking about something else now? WBS grow bags should have instructions what to do with them exactly. What frame of reference do you have to compare wetness? :) Normally speaking (I use WBS in DIY style) you first let the seeds soak in water for a day, the contaminations in the core of the kernels then germinate and start growing. Then I pressure cook and sterilize, that way everything is dead, even the germ seedlings in the very cores. Then the seeds are pretty wet I guess. If you limit gas exchange to a filter patch there should not be that much moisture loss.

So what went wrong? Or what makes you think it's not wet. Was it more wet before?

OK so in theory yes with water that is really sterile (boil for more than just a minute, keep boiling it for a while longer) you can rehydrate but just be careful not to over-hydrate just because the outside looks a bit dry or whatever.

And I have no idea how long you have been waiting for colonization right now. I guess if all else fails it's an option. But if any bacteria are in there adding water will be a feast for them. For your mycelium the right water content is just the water that is contained within the seeds themselves, not some goopy stuff.
 
u sure about this? from what someone told me mushrooms are not plants therefore it does not photosynthesize therefore the light thing is probably not necessary. I see what you're saying though regarding how mushrooms grow in nature (it sees both light and dark, cold and warm). my jars colonized in the dark, I'm in the process of fruiting this now. I mixed the cakes with bulk substrate and mixed them, I see the bulk substrate turning white when it was all black before. it's taking a long time (about 3 weeks now and I see no fruit). I kept it in the dark, is it time to let it see some light? It's the penis envy breed.

As long as the temps are not too cold, and are somewhere around 80, you'll be fine. PE is a very slow strain to colonize, so don't worry about that too much. What kind of sub did you mix up? How's the RH in the tub?

Mushrooms do turn oxygen into CO2, but it's not photosynthesis. The light is a pinning trigger and it doesn't take much, but most will use a 12/12 cycle. Although I've never used something as low as a string of Christmas lights, it is said to work. I use 2 9 watt CFLs. Besides helping the myc to pin, it's also used for orientation, so the shrooms grow up instead of to one side.

Sodium Chloride is just salt and shouldn't hurt the myc. We use it sometimes to kill of contams. It is not always recommended, as by the time that you find molds growing, they've spored already.
 
not sure what you mean by RH in the tub, the bulk substrate I used is compost: http://subliciouscompost.com/index....category_id=1&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=29

I'm still looking around to find the quickest psilocybin mushroom to fruit (I read that it's Tampanensis, but no one sells them ready to inject, only prints). The one I saw being sold in syringes have the word "Pollock". What does it mean? Tampanensis: Pollock.

I might expose my chamber to some light so to see if this will fruit quicker.

As long as the temps are not too cold, and are somewhere around 80, you'll be fine. PE is a very slow strain to colonize, so don't worry about that too much. What kind of sub did you mix up? How's the RH in the tub?

Mushrooms do turn oxygen into CO2, but it's not photosynthesis. The light is a pinning trigger and it doesn't take much, but most will use a 12/12 cycle. Although I've never used something as low as a string of Christmas lights, it is said to work. I use 2 9 watt CFLs. Besides helping the myc to pin, it's also used for orientation, so the shrooms grow up instead of to one side.

Sodium Chloride is just salt and shouldn't hurt the myc. We use it sometimes to kill of contams. It is not always recommended, as by the time that you find molds growing, they've spored already.
 
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according to my HydroShroom grow kit, 6 hours of light exposure is enough. What's your take on this compared to 12 on/12 off?
 
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