What opiates have been proven in studies to be more desirable than morphine?

[clubcard]

As a general rule, high potency opioids are less euphoric. THE most euphoric are mixed NMDA/Mu dual-ligand analgesics. Every country has one, the last line of defense. Diconal in the UK, Levo-Dromoran in the US, Ketogan in Scandinavia, Piritamide in the low countries, Phenadoxone in Eastern Europe....

I don't have a full list.

That is the reason why every one of the things on that list are as rare as hen's teeth.

 

[Limpet_Chicken]

Makes me wonder how much of the extended and intense rush from shooting 6-monoacetydihydromorphine in combination with a couple of hundred mg of memantine was due to the added NMDAr blockade from the memantine. But its the best I've ever had, I've only ever had it once, a gift I still need to repay the chemist who made it for, now some legal problems I've been having have subsided.

Desomorphine is one I've been wanting to try badly. I came fairly close, once too, but I got sidetracked in that I couldn't resist a bioassay of the intermediate (alpha-chloromorphide) between morphine and desomorphine, and on so doing I found it to be so completely different from anything one would think of as opiate-like the amount of alpha-chloromorphide prepared was used up in probing the bioactivity. So, of course, that experiment must be repeated and in the second case, carried to the originally intended conclusion.

Another I'd love to try, is dihydroetorphine or etorphine. Not because of the great potency of these, but because at least in the case of etorphine, its known to bind to the putative epsilon opioid receptor, the only other ligand I know of that acts as an epsilon agonist is beta-endorphin. Which, of course is likely to be difficult to administer, if at all possible without resorting to intrathecal injection, apparently, according to my reading, epsilon opioid agonists apparently greatly enhance MOR agonist induced antinociception, I'd love to know whether or not that translates to increased euphorigenic capacity.

I'd love to try a highly selective epsilon agonist, both with, and without the presence of a MOR agonist.

As for oxycodone, I'm scripted it, along with morphine, and I really don't find it up to much at all by ways of euphoric potential. Its reinforcing, in a kind of way that makes one think 'conditioned place preference, just like a rat pushing a lever' but that euphoric effect is just not there for me. Doesn't oxy have significant KOR agonist properties? which would reduce DA release and perhaps directly as a result, ameliorate the euphoria otherwise imparted by MOR agonists. I even find dihydrocodeine, codeine more euphoric than oxycodone. Oxy is of course much faster acting and a far better analgesic, but theres fuck all euphoria to be found there for me.

 

[Ignio]

Fentanyl and its derivatives are generally agreed to be more addictive than most other opiates, but thats more because of the short duration of action and the fact that the extreme potency makes them very reinforcing (rapid development of tolerance, severe withdrawal syndrome etc), the actual buzz is generally reckoned not to be anything particularly special.

Hydromorphone and oxymorphone are very euphoric when IV'd, but orally they aren't nearly as good, probably due to slow uptake into the blood, limited bioavailability etc. Same with pethidine (meperidine), good when IV'd but crappy orally.

Dipipanone is often mentioned as being particularly good, but its only ever been sold in combination with cyclazine so its hard to say what it would be like by itself, as cyclazine is known to increase the euphoria of other opioids also.

For an orally administered drug, oral oxycodone is generally much more fun than oral morphine, but then the bioavailability is like 80% for oral oxycodone and 30% for oral morphine so that probably makes a big difference.

The one opioid drug that always seems to be mentioned as particularly euphoric regardless of route is ketobemidone, although I've never met anyone who's tried it, any Scandinavians on here?

I have used ketobemidone often. I am from Denmark where it is often prescribed for things like kidney stones. I don't know the English name for it, but ketobemidone apparently relaxes the "smooth musculature" (direct translation) which makes the stone pass more easily. It is also prescribed to people who do not react well to other opiats and opioids in pain management as it apparantly works very different from the other "normal" opiats/opioids.

Today it is only produced and sold as pills, but some years ago it was also available as IV and I have a quite large storage of this.

I have never taken IV heroin, so I cannot compare it to this. But it is waaaaay more euphoric than IV morphine, IV oxycodone and IV Fentanyl. The euphoria is extremely intense and long-lasting compared to morphine. In short the euphoria is just so much more intense than other IV opiats I have tried and it is quite different as well. You might say that it is different in a manner that is like how tramadol is different from morphine. Not that it resembles tramadol in anyway. But it is like no other opiate I have tried IV.

Actually the nordic health departments require that there is a warning on the info about ketobemidone stating that it is more euphoric than other opiats and therefore doctors etc have to be careful prescribing it.

Another benefit from ketobemidone is that is complements other opiats very well due to how different the high of it is.

 

[Limpet_Chicken]

That just makes me want to try ketobemidone even more than I already did. Although it isn't prescribed here, and I'd have my work cut out for me, so to speak, if ever I am to try the stuff.

Ketobemidone has some NMDA antagonist effects doesn't it?

And a 'warning' that its euphoric, as if that is a bad thing. An ugly symptom of the war on drug (user)s. I swear, it seems so much as if governments actively WANT their people to be suffering and miserable. I wonder if its in part so they can make more tax money from alcohol and tobacco. Pretty shitty sops to misery to begin with, whilst working to suppress the availability of more effective remedies. I notice that caffeinated beverages, a stimulant, that people use to help drive themselves to work harder, doesn't share in the obscenely excessive taxation imposed on tobacco and alcohol.

Maybe I'm just being cynical, but maybe, just maybe, the major world governments really are a bunch of bloodsucking, parasitic noxious cunts that ought to be dug out at the roots and burnt. Preferably whilst its members are still alive, so we can force their relatives to pay for a stingy as hell dose of some crappy relief whilst they are busily dying of their 3rd degree burns. Bastards.

 

[Hodor]

And a 'warning' that its euphoric, as if that is a bad thing.

Euphoria isn't necessarily a bad thing, but addiction usually is. And yes, euphoria in itself can be a problem if it impairs your judgment.

I notice that caffeinated beverages, a stimulant, that people use to help drive themselves to work harder, doesn't share in the obscenely excessive taxation imposed on tobacco and alcohol.

So you mean the government is less opposed to people taking caffeine and getting shit done at work than they are to people getting shitfaced or developing a respiratory disease? It's almost like alcoholism-related unemployment and lung cancer treatments cost money, which then cannot be spent on other projects.

Maybe I'm just being cynical, but maybe, just maybe, the major world governments really are a bunch of bloodsucking, parasitic noxious cunts that ought to be dug out at the roots and burnt. Preferably whilst its members are still alive, so we can force their relatives to pay for a stingy as hell dose of some crappy relief whilst they are busily dying of their 3rd degree burns. Bastards.

Graphical fantasies of people being sadistically murdered because they're trying to prevent you from getting high. Feel the love, maaaaan!

I mean sure, the war on drugs has been ...less than successful or well thought-out, but I'm not going to start indulging in torture fantasies. At the end of the day, if you're living in today's UK, your leaders are practically saints compared to the vast majority of those that ruled it in the millennia before.

 

[Hodor]

Anyway, re: pharmacology of ketobemidone, based on the structure I would expect there to also be a significant effect on monoamine reuptake inhibition, seeing as how closely related it is to pethidine (compare pethidine's ethyl carboxylate ester to ketobemidone's propanoyl group).

 

[Coolwhip]

That's just LCs way of talking, hyperbole, I think its actually fairly poetic.

I am surprised I am not seeing oxymorphone being mentioned more, maybe it's just me but I love OM.

 

[Ignio]

I would love to try oxymorphone. Unfortunately it is not used or sold in Denmark at all.

I actually think that IV oxymorphone and ketobemidone is more euphoric and intense than everything but heroin with an almost pharmaceutical purity.

 

[Limpet_Chicken]

Is oxymorphone really that much better than oxycodone? because I'm not particularly fond of the latter, although never have tried the former. I'd be curious enough to save up capsules over time and try for oxymorphone if it would be that worth it.

Another favourite opioid, as some here might know, of mine, is dipropionylmorphine. It has a much, much longer effect duration than does diamorphine, as well as both a far more euphoric rush, and a lot more potency than H, at least as much, likely more so as potent as H than H is compared to morphine.

Another would be 6-AcO-dihydromorphine, which has a rush that is quite insane. And combined with memantine is absolutely staggering, producing an IV rush that lasts up to around 30-45 minutes. 300mg with a HEAVY tolerance knocked me sideways (IV) and had be hardly able to stand.

Never had it IV, but methadone is another one I have always really enjoyed.

 

[Coolwhip]

Yes, it's much different, OC has almost no rush for one, but more importantly the peak feelings of the high last much longer than OC. Its much more warm and fuzzy, more itching, it's wonderful. But the WDs from it are absolutely terrible, indistinguishable from a truly pathogenic viral infection. They come on real hard and fast, the high has good legs but once it wears off it won't keep you completely well for long. Of course that could have had a lot to do with the amount and frequency of my dosing.

 

[Ignio]

Yep I would actually prefer IV fentanyl or IV morphine for instance over IV oxycodone. And I would also say that I experience that oral oxycodone results in more euphoria than IV oxycodone. It is completely upside down but none the less that is my experience. Be aware that I am talking euphoria, the high and the intensity from IV oxycodone is very nice. You feel good and you are warm and start nodding fast, but I wouldnt say I experience pure euphoria. If I take oral oxycodone I feel kinda stimulated and I talk like a crazy person because I feel so good that I just want to be close to other people if you know what I mean.

The euphoria from IV ketobemidone is so intense that you kind of arent physically and mentally present, you are in a bouble of pure blizz where your vision kinda stops after one meter. So you cannot see out of the bubble of euphoria and you cannot hear out of the bubble. And there is a kind of ringing in your ears plus extremely potent goosebumbs going over the body like a wave.

 

[swan215]

oxycodone 100% it?s about 2 to 1 compared to morphine so def stronger.. and also more addictive. swim has been taking oxy 30s about 120 mg a day on average and just recently got their hands on the blue morphine 15s and it just doesn?t have the same effect, in the sense that u have to take more in order to get a similar feeling, but never quite compares, if you?re tolerance is for oxy 30s that is.

 

[Hodor]

oxycodone 100% it?s about 2 to 1 compared to morphine so def stronger.. and also more addictive. swim has been taking oxy 30s about 120 mg a day on average and just recently got their hands on the blue morphine 15s and it just doesn?t have the same effect, in the sense that u have to take more in order to get a similar feeling, but never quite compares, if you?re tolerance is for oxy 30s that is.

A comparison only makes sense if you compensate for a substance's relative potency, that should be obvious. The question is which someone would prefer if they could have an unlimited supply of it.

Take, for example, buprenorphine: 4 mg of buprenorphine is clearly stronger than 4 mg of morphine. Or 40 mg of morphine, for that matter. Or even 40 mg of oxycodone. Yet few people would say that bupe is more "recreational" the others.
On the other hand, pethidine is considered extremely addictive, despite having only a fraction of the strength of morphine, being closer to something like dihydrocodeine.

 

[Neithman]

oxycodone 100% it?s about 2 to 1 compared to morphine so def stronger.. and also more addictive. swim has been taking oxy 30s about 120 mg a day on average and just recently got their hands on the blue morphine 15s and it just doesn?t have the same effect, in the sense that u have to take more in order to get a similar feeling, but never quite compares, if you?re tolerance is for oxy 30s that is.

well morphine has very low oral bioavailability,i would go as far saying that 80 mg oral oxycodone is comparable to 400 mg of oral morphine,but 80 mg iv morphine is just as strong as 80 mg oral oxycodone.
The high from 400 mg oral morphine lasts much longer,is more sedating and a more of noddy high compared to oxy,but in terms of potency i would say that 400 mg oral morphine equals only 80 mg of oxycodone orally

 

[Coolwhip]

The euphoria from IV ketobemidone is so intense that you kind of arent physically and mentally present, you are in a bouble of pure blizz where your vision kinda stops after one meter. So you cannot see out of the bubble of euphoria and you cannot hear out of the bubble. And there is a kind of ringing in your ears plus extremely potent goosebumbs going over the body like a wave.

That sounds just like coke, is KBD really that good, an all-in-one speedball? Scary to think about actually, what I would do to myself with a bag of that. IV coke to me is the zenith of pure euphoria, and I burned myself out on stims on meth as a teenager, since then they give me horrible side effects and anxiety, but I still can't stop slamming coke if I have any around.

 

[Ignio]

That sounds just like coke, is KBD really that good, an all-in-one speedball? Scary to think about actually, what I would do to myself with a bag of that. IV coke to me is the zenith of pure euphoria, and I burned myself out on stims on meth as a teenager, since then they give me horrible side effects and anxiety, but I still can't stop slamming coke if I have any around.

It is actually a somewhat similar experience. I just described the rush from IV cocaine of a 99% purity today like this:
I get the intense rush and the intense euphoria combined with a ringing sound in my ears and one kinda disappears into ones own world where there is no sound but the ringing and a heavy fogs make it impossible to see and what you can see is blurred

Together with coke however, you might get small muscle tremors, you get a sligh feeling like if you have to puke (though for me it actually feels kinda nice) and this RUSH only lasts 30-60 seconds or something.

From ketobemidone you sit in this world of your own consisting of nothing but euphoria and it lasts some thing like 5-10 minuts. Of deminishing effects of cause, in the start you cannot "leave" this world of your own even if you try, after a while you can gather strength to break it and talk and move. The strong euphoria just lasts so long that it is unlike any other opiate I have tried.

 

[HeroinPillsLovecra]

Limpet chicken,

Yes oxymorphone really is THAT much better than oxycodone! The euphoria, pain relief, and legs are orders of magnitude better! You should synth some from your oxy or order some on the dnm. It's really quite good,

 

[Coolwhip]

Lol, yeah I always get ready to puke when my bell starts ringing, and if I don't heave a little I get disappointed. I think it's just my mind associating the nausea with the coke.

That sounds nice though, more my speed honestly, almost like where you are you'd be ODing with dope, but the MOA effects are keeping you awake.

 

[Amml]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxymorphazone

 

[Limpet_Chicken]

You really, really REALLY don't want to ingest oxymorphazone. Its a covalent-binding ligand, which means once bound, it results in continued stimulation of opioid receptors until they downregulate and internalize, having been permanently knocked out, and requiring you to regrow new receptors from scratch. it might be suitable for in-vitro studies on cell lines, but not in a living being.