Permafried

[fastandbulbous]

Drugs can affect mental illness in people susceptible to mental illness. If you arn't susceptible to mental illness then drugs arn't going to make you mentally ill.

While psychedelics can unmask latent mental illness in people so predisposed, I don't think they can cause a long term psychosis (scizoaffective disorders) in people without the right buttons to press. They can however cause neurosis related conditions in anybody regardless of any predisposition; a 'bad trip' is just as capable of causing PTSD as being in a big rail accident or being caught in a terrorist explosion (& PTSD can totally devistate any ability to hold together a 'normal' life, so it's not just mild conditions.

So, putting my opinion simply, LSD can't make you insane unless that capacity was already there, but it can lead to things that fuck with your life ie. leave you a bit loose/strange in the head (neurotic symptoms)

 

[Cthulhu]

prove it. i believe they could. the brain does not possess infinite plasticity...

so john lennon takes lsd, and concludes that he is jesus christ and believes this strongly enough to tell a fan even the next day after it has worn off and you don't think that is a problem? i assume you believe john lennon really was jesus christ then? after john lennon stopped using lsd because he couldn't handle the bad trips he was having, he developed addictions to cocaine and heroin. once again, how do you not see that as a problem? it doesn't seem much like jesus like behavior.

you're a good foil, burn out. Good to have you around, I mean, to criticize and poke holes in any Learyism still floating around. I love psychedelics, but it is certainly true that drugs are not the answer for everyone, nor anyone for their whole life.

 

[burn out]

While psychedelics can unmask latent mental illness in people so predisposed, I don't think they can cause a long term psychosis (scizoaffective disorders) in people without the right buttons to press. They can however cause neurosis related conditions in anybody regardless of any predisposition; a 'bad trip' is just as capable of causing PTSD as being in a big rail accident or being caught in a terrorist explosion (& PTSD can totally devistate any ability to hold together a 'normal' life, so it's not just mild conditions.

So, putting my opinion simply, LSD can't make you insane unless that capacity was already there, but it can lead to things that fuck with your life ie. leave you a bit loose/strange in the head (neurotic symptoms)

well this would be a horribly unethical experiment but you don't think it's possible to induce a long term psychosis in people by giving them enough psychedelic drugs? let's say you took 5 very mentally healthy people and gave them constant high doses of lsd, psilocybin, mescaline, thc, salvia, ketalime, etc on a daily bases for years. you don't think any of them would just lose it after a while? or perhaps they would begin perceiving things in such a different way they would appear psychotic to normal people.

 

[MasterOfDeception]

While psychedelics can unmask latent mental illness in people so predisposed, I don't think they can cause a long term psychosis (scizoaffective disorders) in people without the right buttons to press. They can however cause neurosis related conditions in anybody regardless of any predisposition; a 'bad trip' is just as capable of causing PTSD as being in a big rail accident or being caught in a terrorist explosion (& PTSD can totally devistate any ability to hold together a 'normal' life, so it's not just mild conditions.

So, putting my opinion simply, LSD can't make you insane unless that capacity was already there, but it can lead to things that fuck with your life ie. leave you a bit loose/strange in the head (neurotic symptoms)

Indeed, and what's fascinating (I find it to be fascinating at least) is that at the same time lsd can be very successful in treating neuroses.
By the way, the truth is that we are all LESS or MORE susceptible to all kind of 'mental' disorders. Anyone could turn psychotic as anyone can get cancer. Noone is immune, it's just different limits and sensitivity.

I think when talking about psychedelics, one approach to the whole experience plays a major role. I believe that even if one has some latent mental disorder unmasked, he can overcome/override it,sort it out and generally evolve for the best, if he has some proper approach,philosophy,cosmotheory.

burn out, there are certainly mental dangers, but lsd for sure does not 'kill' braincells or 'fry' your brain - it's not neurotoxic.

 

[burn out]

i never said i killed brain cells or fried your brain, i am not even speaking about lsd specifically but all psychedelic drugs including dissociatives.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Indeed, and what's fascinating (I find it to be fascinating at least) is that at the same time lsd can be very successful in treating neuroses.
By the way, the truth is that we are all LESS or MORE susceptible to all kind of 'mental' disorders. Anyone could turn psychotic as anyone can get cancer. Noone is immune, it's just different limits and sensitivity.

I think when talking about psychedelics, one approach to the whole experience plays a major role. I believe that even if one has some latent mental disorder unmasked, he can overcome/override it,sort it out and generally evolve for the best, if he has some proper approach,philosophy,cosmotheory.

burn out, there are certainly mental dangers, but lsd for sure does not 'kill' braincells or 'fry' your brain - it's not neurotoxic.

while it is possible to overcome the onset of a latent mental psychosis, I think you may be downplaying the extreme pain and suffering that can come about from using LSD or similar chemicals. In extremely bad cases, I would say it is nearly impossible to work your way through these types of neurophysiological disorders by simply believing we are 'all one' or reality is 'love.'

Have you friends that broke down after LSD use? I have a friend who went into a mental crisis that lasted months after a high dose LSD trip. It was not pretty.

Tread carefully...

 

[Grinders Kiefers]

except i heard that the guy was running away from the cops and slipped a few sheets down his shirt and got absorbed in his skin

Yeah, that's a scene from SLC Punk, and there's a lot of misinformation in Heroin Bob's speech:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Sazz3NDldwY

I'm pretty sure there isn't much truth to the sheets of acid being absorbed in your legs from running through sprinklers thing, but I could be wrong. I've heard about a dozen different variations of the story, and it's mostly just bullshit myths and rumors mixed with cultural propaganda.

 

[inotocracy]

Yeah, that's a scene from SLC Punk, and there's a lot of misinformation in Heroin Bob's speech:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Sazz3NDldwY

I'm pretty sure there isn't much truth to the sheets of acid being absorbed in your legs from running through sprinklers thing, but I could be wrong. I've heard about a dozen different variations of the story, and it's mostly just bullshit myths and rumors mixed with cultural propaganda.

Not sure if its useful to know, but a friend of mine had a vial of liquid in his pocket and was stopped by some cops. He dumped the vial out into his pocket, and the cop put his hand in his pocket and asked "why is your leg wet?". Thirty or so minutes later my friend is tripping hard, so we assume it absorbed in his skin somehow. I bet that cop had a nice night

 

[MasterOfDeception]

while it is possible to overcome the onset of a latent mental psychosis, I think you may be downplaying the extreme pain and suffering that can come about from using LSD or similar chemicals. In extremely bad cases, I would say it is nearly impossible to work your way through these types of neurophysiological disorders by simply believing we are 'all one' or reality is 'love.'

Have you friends that broke down after LSD use? I have a friend who went into a mental crisis that lasted months after a high dose LSD trip. It was not pretty.

Tread carefully...

Ok I see your point.

Yes i have a friend that got drug induced psychosis and was diagnosed with paranoid schizophreneia, dunno if she's indeed schizo though. Anyways her abuse was very careless and in totally unsuitable set/settings.

However I was not talking about overcoming them "by simply believing we are 'all one' or reality is 'love.'" but with a bit more complex process.

 

[B9]

^ What sort of complex process?

I think I agree with ( whomever) said Time - IME time has been the best way to regain my erm psychological bearings( such as they aren't)

Despite my frivolity you know what I mean, I would hope so anyway.

 

[Jabberwocky]

lol your frivolity is quite charming it makes me giggle sometimes

 

[MasterOfDeception]

^ What sort of complex process?

I think I agree with ( whomever) said Time - IME time has been the best way to regain my erm psychological bearings( such as they aren't)

^
I am talking about a more 'self-psychanalysis' approach, observing one's own thought's/feelings, letting go, not repressing what he feels like doing during the experience(e.g it's very common that a lot of people will generally refrain from bursting into tears,or shout out loud their most crazy thoughts) because of their own inhibitions,even if they are with close friends... Clinging to the enlightening moments of an experience, trying to integrate them, trying to figure out why/what happened and things went bad. Most seem to be too hasty to blame it all on the psychedelic. I choose to see the 'bad' states (paranoias,overwhelming fears,insecurities,psychological confusion etc) as a manifestation of my soul, rather as an effect of the acid.


Time heals you say? Hm, dunno, of course I cannot disagree to an extent, but on the other hand... Inertia Creeps ...

 

[theWorldWithin]

^Wait until it happens to you, then tell us about self psychotherapy.

 

[MasterOfDeception]

^Wait until it happens to you, then tell us about self psychotherapy.

No need to get offensive. You don't know what has happened to me and what mental torturing i've been through, by the way.
And I am talking about such an approach exactly to REDUCE the possibilities of such things happening, and prevent 'it happen to me'.

So do you deny the psychotherapeutic potential of psychedelics?

It is well known that those that abuse psychedelics (as in using them to get fucked up, in high frequency, and disrespecting set/setting) have many more chances of becoming some psychedelic casualty.
On the other hand those that focus more on learning themselves or know a bit more about what they are doing are generally more protected. Do not get me wrong please, I am not bragging or anything, not playing the shaman or the ultimate immune superpsychonaut. I just think that the mentality the majority of people that ingest psychedelics have is not as healthy/appropriate as it should be. Tell me where you disagree.

I've also seen how LOW certain experiences can throw you and drain you,but even then integration is up to you,and in the long term something good comes out. It is very hard to integrate an experience that ended bad , and I know it first-hand (in my 4 acid blotters+ayahuasca trip) so please do not underestimate my opinion.

I am glad to discuss it and share my opinions with you though.

 

[Youkai]

I think I may be slightly permafied, its like... your brain just doesnt think like it used to. you make different types of assosiations towards objective reality then you had prior. I dont know, maybe its just personal evolution but one that was guided by heavy repeated psychedelic use.

honestly I dont care, I like my self for whoever I may be. some peopel can live with it, some peopel cant I have yet to reach a point of being debilitated.

 

[MasterOfDeception]

I think I may be slightly permafied, its like... your brain just doesnt think like it used to. you make different types of assosiations towards objective reality then you had prior. I dont know, maybe its just personal evolution but one that was guided by heavy repeated psychedelic use.

Yes i know that feeling, some time it is for the better , sometimes for the worse.
It's some kind of re-programming. That's where the power of psychedelics is.

Of course multi-drug abuse might have much more dangers (reduced cognitive abilities etc)

 

[memphis10]

Incidentally, I am the man who thought he was a glass of orange juice. For 10 years I remained standing for fear that if I sat down I would "spill".

After intensive therapy I now believe I am a glass of frozen lemonade. This enables me to sit without fear of "spilling".

i lol'd

 

[Liquid Vision]

I think I may be slightly permafied, its like... your brain just doesnt think like it used to. you make different types of assosiations towards objective reality then you had prior. I dont know, maybe its just personal evolution but one that was guided by heavy repeated psychedelic use.

honestly I dont care, I like my self for whoever I may be. some peopel can live with it, some peopel cant I have yet to reach a point of being debilitated.

Eh, but this is the same with a lot of things. Ask someone that has had a near death experience and they'll tell you the same thing. My dad fell asleep at the wheel driving a few years back, hit a concrete guardrail, flew out of the drivers side door after it got ripped off, and bounced down the road while the car proceeded to flip end over end, crushing it flat. If he'd been wearing his seatbelt he'd have died. He used to be all high strung and shit. I'm talking pissed off 24/7. Since the wreck? Dude is chill all the time. Changed his life.

I would argue that one trip on a strong psychedelic like LSD could change your outlook on life. Is it necessarily screwing with your brain and making you think different because it rearranged your brain cells and wiring? Probably not.

Like was said, if you're predisposed to mental illness (like some people have genes that make them predisposed towards cancer) then it probably isn't a good idea to be tripping balls all the time. If you're perfectly sane and healthy tho? I find it hard to believe it would lead to a permanent form of psychosis. There definitely isn't any hard evidence to support that assumption anyway.

It works well for the anti-drug people tho. Enough rumor and conjecture mixed with some propaganda works well to instill fear in the masses. I remember talking about acid in one of my classes at college and everyone swore up and down that if you'd taken acid more than 7 times you were declared legally insane or some stupid nonsense.

 

[fastandbulbous]

honestly I dont care, I like my self for whoever I may be

Well if you like yourself you're doing better than a big section of the population who don't like themselves but aren't even aware they have such feelings. I like the person I am (for the most part) and I will admit that psychedelics had a role in my getting to this stage (I know I'm a bit of a fuck-up, but so is everyone; the most impoertant thing in being a better, happier person is being able to recognize the problems in the first place, which many people never get around to - that's where psychedelics helped most in my case).

That doesn't mean psychedelics are for everyone though...

 

[fastandbulbous]

I remember talking about acid in one of my classes at college and everyone swore up and down that if you'd taken acid more than 7 times you were declared legally insane or some stupid nonsense.

I'd turn it on it's tail and say."If you believe that taking LSD 7 times makes you legally insane then you're an incredibly naive & gullasble individual"

If they have to spout anti-drug propaganda, you'd think they'd at least make an effort to make it sound plausable. As far as the DARE people & the like go, I get the impression that they think ignorance is a good thing!