Hey all, I am looking to plunk some cash into some electronica production software. I'd like to know people's opinions on which is a better choice between the latests versions of :
Reason
Logic Pro
Ableton Live
Also, I am looking at an M-Audio Axiom 49 as my MIDI controller? Any opinions?
Thanks.
Ableton + Logic = Music God
^Ah interesting combo but I'll probably buy just one of these softwares to start out..
I suggest ableton, its simple to use and very useful. Reason is more like a analog studio hardware simulation where as Logic is like digital studio.
The axioms are very nice, I own a 25. Its cheap and suites your needs with even its most basic applications (MIDI Learn lol). I use it for mixing mostly on ableton, the keys to select tracks and the knobs to adjust frequency.
Can't speak for logic as I've never messed around with it (much) but I'd say ableton. Reason is great but lacks the vst support that ableton or logic would give. Also I'd say ableton if you're wanting to perform live at some stage, not that the others cant be used for live shows it's just a hell of a lot more convenient and user friendly in that regard.
I use cubase personally but working on integrating it with ableton. And as for the axiom 49 I'd say go for it, collaboration partner just recently got one after waiting nearly 3 months for it to ship from Canada and said it was definitely worth the wait. Has all of the controls you'd want for easy midi automation and enigma compatibility which can save you a hell of a lot of time if you need to manually map functions.
^I would say Reason 4- it is seriously absolutely brilliant. The THOR synth is better then any vst I've played with- the sequencer has been redone, theres a groovy realtime mixer, plus the great mastering suite. The effects aren't great, but using the rewire capacity you can run reason as a slave to a program like Ableton (which I wouldn't personally) or Cubase or Logic. However, I never do that as I think Reason is superb, it takes a while to get into, but it sounds great (no matter what people might say- there is no discernible difference, in terms of spectrum analysis between Reason and Logic) whereas Ableton outputs a very shoddy sound quality IMO. I have read some quite strange things about it, implying that it is very very compressed....
As to hardware, I've got a crapy Behringher UMX-25; its not particulary 'nice' to use, clunky keys and not very smooth rotaries, but it does the job for me; plus its cheap!
I wish I had my old monster computer to do the rewiring thing. Honestly the only thing holding me back from using reason is the issue with me not being able to get the midi controllers to work. :P
^What do yu mean by "issue with me not being able to get the midi controllers to work. :P"- Reason can handle any generic MIDI control signals really. Just have to map as you will.....unless theres another pronlem...? I usually output things as 24bit instead of rewiring- I wanna DEcrease latency issues not increase....
Anyyone wants Reason help, say the word.
^ So im guessing I have to get the CC# list and map the controls manually? My controllers seem to have presets when I install them, they just dont work or I have no clue how to do it. When the time comes where Reason makes me horny, ill definently let you know
I would advise against reason most definitely. the interface is cool and its useful for sound effects in the area of foley and tv/movie production, but for music you want something with better sound quality ie. ableton 7 or logic studio (or both)
^Hehehe, check out some music forums; Reason outputs equal sound quality as Abletone- except Reason may contain some noise at -147dB. Ableton is suggested to sound good, because it is compressed and we are all very used to listening to compressed music. Plus ableton will randomly double-dither 16bit sounds, which is always a no-no; don't want to add dither to dither. The trend is swinging away from ableton now...
I played two songs to a guy from Crazy Ducks (Israeli trance dudes)- both made on Reason, song A all in Reason, song B in reason, rewired to Ableton. I told him song A had all been Reason, and he bagged the sound quality. The next track, I told him had been reqired out (it hadn't) and he claimed to hear extra sample-rate. He was compltetly wrong, it was a subjective jugmnet on the program Reason, not its sound quality. Needless to say, he din't like my joyous laughter at him for making such a stupid mistake. Stupid simply because he wasn't even LISTENING.
Crazy Ducks don't like me.
All my tunes are made with Reason, and soon enough they should actually be ready for you guys to hear (and pay for!!!!!) which is why I've removed my folder from the web. I also spammed Esnips and got booted, but thats a different matter.
The CC list is included so its easy enough, but annoying. There are new packages which included Reason 4 and the midi keyobaord I'm currently working with, so I would have expected more compatabilty. Meh, I hate midi anyway, its a fucking out of date, old useless and confusing thing. Really, all you need is a decent controller interface, some external audio interface (I use a mackie satellite, goodly amount of analog and digital i/os, just for picking up ambient sounds, room reverb, some instruments, plus monitoring of course. I'm canning my battered pair of Fostex monitors for some KRK Rockit rp6's I think.....Originally Posted by Paralogic
^ So im guessing I have to get the CC# list and map the controls manually? My controllers seem to have presets when I install them, they just dont work or I have no clue how to do it. When the time comes where Reason makes me horny, ill definently let you know
I use Ableton Live.
logic or reason (or both because you can probably rewire). ableton sucks.
You may have unknowingly opened yourself to a barrage of Reason questions from at least one individual^What do yu mean by "issue with me not being able to get the midi controllers to work. :P"- Reason can handle any generic MIDI control signals really. Just have to map as you will.....unless theres another pronlem...? I usually output things as 24bit instead of rewiring- I wanna DEcrease latency issues not increase....
Anyyone wants Reason help, say the word.
I think I'll go with Reason as it comes highly recommended by folks online and offline. I will also maybe get the M-Audio Axiom-25 instead of the 49 to save cash and I figure I'll be using it to make samples so I can always kick up/down the octave so it should be no big deal. When I get good enough for live mixing, I'll get a bigger controller.
Quick question for Axiom-XX owners, how good are the drum pads on these babes?
Also, I was going to purchase from the local Guitar Center but a friend suggested I could maybe find bargains online so if anyone know of cheap online deals on the Reason 4 Package and/or MIDI controllers, I am all ears!!
I reccomend M-Adio firewire Adiophile.You may have unknowingly opened yourself to a barrage of Reason questions from at least one individual
I think I'll go with Reason as it comes highly recommended by folks online and offline. I will also maybe get the M-Audio Axiom-25 instead of the 49 to save cash and I figure I'll be using it to make samples so I can always kick up/down the octave so it should be no big deal. When I get good enough for live mixing, I'll get a bigger controller.
Quick question for Axiom-XX owners, how good are the drum pads on these babes?
Also, I was going to purchase from the local Guitar Center but a friend suggested I could maybe find bargains online so if anyone know of cheap online deals on the Reason 4 Package and/or MIDI controllers, I am all ears!!
man... asking which to select is like asking which fruit is the best between apples, oranges, and bananas... it's a matter of taste, what you're wanting, and how much you're willing to learn...
they all have a learning curve -- i think Logic's may be steeper, but that's subjective because i remember learning 5.5 (on PC) rather quickly but then taking forever to learn Reason when it was first released.
it really depends on your needs.
i personally love all three of them and Logic 7 was the main reason why i almost got a mac.
i don't see why you couldn't take the best of all three, however, and rewire Reason and Live into Logic... i still use Reason's Redrum and REX player, altho' lately i've been sticking to Phatmatik for rex-like looping.
if you're gonna do live audio, tho, I'd probably say Logic.
im an ableton junkie man. i havent really used much else though. all i know is that ableton makes it very easy for me to do anything i need to. plus theres a few good communities that can help you out with ableton that i know of.
MAX/MSP requires serious dedication. But I agree: it is a truly inspirational tool.
I'm currently using Reason 4 to produce all of my tracks right now... can anybody tell me what advantages there would be in buying a more full-featured DAW like Ableton Live 7 and ReWiring Reason into it? What exactly would Ableton be able to do that Reason can't do alone?
well, record... use of other VSTs... well, that last one is for people who HAVE favourite VSTs, which you probably wouldn't being a Reason-only person.
Also, when you rewire into another host, you use that sequencing host's sound engine, which is probably 'better sounding' than Reason's. I'll use ACID and/or LIVE because I can cut up samples better in those two programs and I'll drop some live recordings (bass, etc) into the mix... or vocals... whatever.
Obviously, I wouldn't say you HAVE to get a DAW host outside of Reason; if Reason-only is working for you, then stay the course. Eventually, tho', you may want to expand. But I wouldn't say you HAVE to run out and get Live or Logic.
As said, you would be able to use Lives sequencer, and VST plugs and FX....as well as routing the summed signal through Abletons mixer, which some claim sounds better. Honestly- I have Ableton, Logic, Tracktion and Cubase- I rewire occaisionally just for "fun", but there is NO POINT. Reason has excellent sound quality....also, Rewiring will slow down your computer like hell..
i know you didn't mention it but i love Renoise, great music tracker, steep learning curve but quite fun.
Was about to start my own topic until I saw this one, might as well ask here. I recently aquired a demo of Live, the catch being that you can't save anything. Iv'e been thinking of buying but before I fork out the $500 I was wondering which program would be best for a noob such as myself.
Also it's shit having to use the computer keyboard as the input, can you get anything like a musical keyboard that isn't really a keyboard ie. doesn't actually produce sound, but is simply an input device?
^Well, its a matter of taste really....I would suggest you try out a few programs first to see what you think....I mainly use Reason myself. Fruityloops is pretty good too...
As to the keyboard thing, what you want is a MIDI keyboard/controller. Basically a keyboard that uses your computer synths as its sound module....and voila, you can suddenly play pure acid on the piano....there are HEAPS to choose from, obviously ranging in functionality....you will always get a few knwbs and sliders on the keyboard which you can assign to various functions in whatever program you choose. For a begginner (or anone really) look at the Behringer UMX range, they aren't exactly nice to play as such, but they work well, and are reliable as afar as Behringer goes. Plus- cheap, which is kinda tantamount when starting out...
Have fun, any other questions just fire away...
Thanks for the advice, I do have one more question however. How do you go about getting decent sound quality from a computer if you intend to hook it up to a hi-fi. What sort of sound card should be used?
Bluelight