Avoid benadryl while withdrawing from opiates.

[ChemicalSmiles]

Diphenhydramine at doses of 50-100 mgs are great for helping me sleep... but during opiate w/d's...... diphen is a NO- NO.

I found this out the hard way... I have been using hydrocodone, oxycodone, and oxymorphone recently....... I stopped cold turkey and tried using ambien and diphenhydramine to sleep. Since I wasnt using the opiates an extremely long time, and ive been through plenty of worse heroin withdrawls... I figured id get to sleep with the combo.... well I ended up getting restless legs and the diphen at least doubled the strength of the RLS.

The restless legs/arms subsided just under 5 hours after consuming the diphen so I know it was the culprit. I heard skuttle buttle about diphen and rls but disregarded it in the past... after this experience 3 nights ago I stupidly consumed it again by accident (out of habit, take it usually 6 nights a week) last night and had repeat effects..... I would tell you if I experienced restless legs tonight without the diphen but I took methadone and im not in withdrawl anymore.....

But the night before last when I abstained from the diphen, I had no restless legs while still in withdrawl.....


so yes..... memphis is right... "fuck diph"

at least during withdrawl

 

['medicine cabinet']

Yea benedryl sucks but its better than nothing when you need to be sedated for a while. it seems to make WD more intense since its throws your head off and makes you dizzy. the hangover the next morning sucks too. i hate the feeling of taking benedryl even when im not in WD. it reminds me of kicking cold turkey.

 

[YBC]

After reading this thread I looked up RLS on wikipedia, and what do you know? Oxycodone is a treatment for it, according to wiki at least!

Codeine is often prescribed for people with RLS by doctors in situations where people suffering from it "naturally", or when the RLS is a side effect from other non-narcotic medications. I first read about DXM being a symptom reliever in this case study about tramadol WD http://opioids.com/tramadol/abstinsynd.html

Good to know for people like me, who want to be sure not to switch addictions.

The rationale for the calcium + magnesium combo is that these minerals in the right ratio (1 + 2) is that it regulates the electrical impulses between the nerves and the muscles, and RLS is often (always?) a result of these impulses being fucked upped. Calcium and magnesium is a lot like the relationship between sodium and potassium, the proportion needs to be right for the body to function optimally. Like I mentioned in my previous post, minerals aren't enough for me, neither is DXM, but together they work like a charm

 

[Mojo26236]

Any opiate can be used, but with pramipaxole now, it won't be used often.

It'll go Pramipaxole --> Benzo A --> Benzo B --> (Maybe a C or D, etc, possibly another GABAergic) --> Codeine --> Hydro/Oxycodone.

I talked to my doc once about it (I was withdrawing and was complaining about RLS), he said that's what he was taught when he was learning, though that was before Pramipaxole, so I assume that it's been put first on the list.

Very true. I've been prescribed opioids for RLS for 20yrs. Opioids are by far the most effective treatment for me, but I had to go through the all of the other treatments first. I'm now taking 40mg oxycodone 2x day.

The following are believed to aggravate RLS symptoms:
nicotine, caffeine, alcohol
most antidepressants
neuroleptic agents
dopamine blocking antiemetics (such as metoclopramide)
sedating antihistamines (including benedryl)

The following are recommended treatments for RLS:
Carbidopa/levodopa, 25 mg/100 mg
Dopamine agonists, such as pramipexole or ropinirole
Gabapentin
Opioids or opioid agonists, such as oxycodone (5-15 mg), hydrocodone (5-15 mg), methadone (5-10 mg), and tramadol (50-100 mg)
Benzodiazepines or benzodiazepine receptor agonists, such as temazepam, triazolam, zolpidem, zaleplon, or eszopiclone

 

[YBC]

^^^^^^
That's some really good info! When I drink sometimes at night , I get RLS of some sort, not the WD kind, but kind of similar in the early morning hours. Alcohol disturbs my sleep quality overall.

 

[sixpartseven]

RLS is caused by the depletion of dopamine. As far as I know, I dont think diphenhydramine depletes dopamine, so its either some other effect of the Diphen that caused this for you, or just a coincidence that you had taken Diphen on the nights when your RLS was at its worst. Id say it was the former because as Mojo pointed out, some antihistamines have been shown to make RLS worse. In my experience, diphenhydramine really helped when withdrawaling. As sonic said, a lot of people dont experience RLS, so it would still work for some.

I know drugs like Seroquel are not recommended (at least not by me) because it actually does make RLS a lot worse by affecting your dopamine levels.

 

[CH3CH2OH]

Hi, I am a newly registered user here but have been a lurker on here for years and know a fair bit about drugs and their effects.

To the OP:

That is definately an atypical response to benadryl, but, like others have pointed out, it is not unheard of. This should not put others off from using benadryl while they are withdrawing in my opinion. It will defintely sedate you and help you cope with the w/d's simply by allowing you to rest. However they also may even help the RLS, I believe, and it certainly cannot hurt to try. The reason that I say this is because before Cogentin (benzotropine) was put in use, denadryl was actually the drug-of-choice on psych wards to stop extrapyramidal symptoms. If anyone here has experience EPS, you will know that one of the first prominent symptoms is having extremely restless legs that the patient cannot keep still (obviously other symptoms will become present if the case is severe or if dosing with a phenothiazine continues). That symptom feels JUST like RLS from opioid w/d's, take it from someone who has experience both (EPS is far worse than w/ds though IMO).

Anyway, my point is that not only will the benadryl almost certainly help you sleep, but it could very well help those restless feelings. Despite the fact that a small # of people have adverse reactions to it that cause restlessness, I would advise taking it to anyone I know, and I have taken it for both myself (doses of 50-100mg). By the way the knowledge about using diphenhydramine for EPS comes from someone I know who has worked as a nurse on a psych ward for decades.


BTW, I know that the restless legs from EPS and from opioid w/d are possibly caused by different mechanisms, but it is worth a shot to take benadryl anyway. Not to mention it does not seem far-fetched that the lack of opioids causes a disturbance in Dopamine levels similar to that which is caused by phenothiazines and other anti-psychotics/anti-emetics.

 

[center]

Benedryl is good for minor anxiety, to me.

 

[Mr Blonde]

What is it about RLS that makes opioid prescriptions for it legit? I mean, does the constant moving cause some distress or something?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to attack people's conditions, I just don't know much about RLS. I remember reading recentley a study that showed a higher incidence of heart attacks or other cardio problems in people with RLS.

 

[chinacat311]

it sucks man. if you have ever had opiate withdrawal you would know. its just like there is ants crawling under your skin or something..you constantly gotta move your legs/arms and i personally have a lot of trouble sleeping when it gets bad.

thats one of the reasons i like opiates so much, it actually reverses the RLS- i get a really heavy feeling in my legs when i use which is a nice alternative to constantly shaking/uncomfortable/restless feelings i get normally from RLS.

 

[psychedelicious]

Mr. Blonde, RLS is simply horrible. I have some pretty bad anxiety, which, coupled with RLS, makes for many a sleepless night. I was a junior in high school when the anxiety and RLS made themselves known (unfortunately at the same time). All of a sudden, I couldn't sleep. At all. My first experience with severe insomnia kept me up for TWO WEEKS. I caught a fifteen minute nap every couple days, but really just was unable to sleep, despite over a week's worth of tiredness hitting me all at once.

If you experience RLS during withdrawals, or when taking diphenhydramine for w/d, I suggest, as another posted above, taking 150 mg of DXM with 75-100 mg benadryl. Toss in a decent dose of loperamide and a bowl of some herb, preferably indica, and you'll be sleeping much, much better.

 

[noone1]

I'm not sure about this RSL stuff but i've had hives all my life from nerves. Intense itching all over my body especially in the legs and arms with huge splotches. Withdrawing from opiates brings this out in me and when I take benadryl to try and alleviate it I usually get the opposite effect and start getting worse... like I just took a histamine instead of an antihistamine. I itch even more and my anxiety gets worse.

 

[YBC]

RLS, I wouldn't really call itching, but that may just be a different way of describing it. It's more like a restless feeling in your body parts which makes it impossible to lay still, even for a second when it's bad. In Swedish the technical term for RLS actually translates to "ant crawlings", like you have a million ants crawling around under your skin. Describes it fairly well I guess, but I prefer to call it restless legs even when speaking Swedish.

 

[CH3CH2OH]

I was thinking that these adverse reactions to benadryl might be caused by its similarity to phenothiazines (they were all derived from diphenhydramine). What do you guys think? In some people maybe benadryl acts as a dopamine antagonist like the other phenothiazine, thus making symptoms like RLS and anxiousness worse.

 

[WARDMAN3]

When I take benadryl fro insomnia or back in the day for opiate withdrawal, It was a HUGE mistake... not only did it keep me up, I ad to deal with that gigged out feeling fro 6 hours with no sleep. I will never take it again for insomnia, as I plan not to have to deal with another opiate WD again.

 

[mewithoutyou]

I dont really know about the Benedryl thing but DO NOT take Seroquel I wasnt even w/ding that badly and decided to take some to help me sleep, my legs hurt so bad I wanted to die. When I had taken it prevouisly to help sleep before my w/ds started I thought it was amazing and that it would help a lot during w/ds but then I took it after the w/ds started and I will NEVER do that again. It was painful, to say the least.

 

[biggerstronger]

benedryl is always hit or miss for me. Depends how severe my w/d's are. Like right now I'm not really going through any major w/d (i'm back on bupe from other stuff) and my legs hurt like hell from RLS. It sucks so much. I might test it out tonight.

 

[YBC]

benedryl is always hit or miss for me. Depends how severe my w/d's are. Like right now I'm not really going through any major w/d (i'm back on bupe from other stuff) and my legs hurt like hell from RLS. It sucks so much. I might test it out tonight.

I know I keep repeating myself, 150 mg DXM + 1000mg calcium + 2000mg magnesium. Just try it.

 

[gethigh]

thats my only symptom of withdrawls thank god rls

 

[biggerstronger]

I know I keep repeating myself, 150 mg DXM + 1000mg calcium + 2000mg magnesium. Just try it.

I don't like to take that much DXM but I would take the other supplements. The benedryl actually helped but then again I wasn't in any major w/d.