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    The Big & Dandy HOT-7 Thread 
    #1
    Bluelighter Ximot's Avatar
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    As the search-engine didn't yield anything, I'd like to ask here whether anyone has lately come across this substance and what their experiences were. All I know about it is what Shulgin wrote ....

    Thanks
    Last edited by Solipsis; 30-04-2012 at 22:21.
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    #2
    wow, first time i'd heard of this one. love that name ;D
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    #3
    Bluelighter jykkE's Avatar
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    Here is the PiHKaL excerpt from Shulgin:
    http://www.erowid.org/library/books_...ihkal088.shtml

    Kind of interesting, noticeably the sexual side-effects. Seems to be quite enjoyed by him for its psychedelics attributes as well. It is made from 2C-T-17.
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    #4
    Ex-Bluelighter Gaian Planes's Avatar
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    It will just dehydroxylate into 2CT7 in the stomach I think. It will be identical to 2CT7 subjectively. The reason why this is not more evident in Shulgin's reports are that he did not do a wide enough swath of tests (plus with the power of suggestion that he undoubtedly hyped up to his testers).

    Here's a quote from the FLEA passage (hydroxy-MDMA).

    Quote Originally Posted by Shulgin
    EXTENSIONS AND COMMENTARY: Most people who were involved with the evaluation of FLEA quite logically compared it with MDMA, as it was presented as being a very close analogue which might share some of the latter's properties. And to a large measure, the comparison was favorable. The dosages are almost identical, the chronological course of action is almost identical, and there are distinct similarities in the effects that are produced. If there is a consensus of similarities and differences it would be that it is not quite as enabling in allowing a closeness to be established with others. And perhaps there is more of a move towards introspection. And perhaps a slightly increased degree of discoordination in the thought processes. But also, part of this same consensus was that, were MDMA unknown, this material would have played its role completely.

    And from the scientific point of view, it lends more weight to a hypothesis that just might be a tremendous research tool in pharmacology. I first observed the intimate connection between an amine and a hydroxylamine with the discovery that N-hydroxy-MDA (MDOH) was equipotent and of virtually identical activity to the non-hydroxylated counterpart (MDA). And I have speculated in the recipe for MDOH about the possible biological interconversions of these kinds of compounds. And here, the simple addition of a hydroxyl group to the amine nitrogen atom of MDMA produces a new drug that is in most of its properties identical to MDMA. The concept has been extended to 2C-T-2, 2C-T-7, and 2C-T-17, where each of these three active compounds was structurally modified in exactly this way, by the addition of a hydroxyl group to the amine nitrogen atom. The results, HOT-2, HOT-7 and HOT-17 were themselves all active, and compared very closely with their non-hydroxylated prototypes.
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    #5
    Ex-Bluelighter Gaian Planes's Avatar
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    Also, there are a few hydroxylated drugs known and distributed. For instance, Parahydroxyamphetamine and parahydroxymethamphetamine have been 'on the street' and I believe have killed.

    Also, PMA (paramethoxyamphetamine), you might recognize this drug, it gets demethylated in vivo to PHA (the drug above). It has caused fatal cases of serotonin syndrome when mixed with MDMA.

    The HOT series (hydroxylate a 2CT and you got a HOT) is as far as I know theoretical to us 'commoners' at this point, although it would not be hard to synthesize I dont think.

    The problem with HOT7 is that part of it would like decompose to regular 2CT7 making it illegal to possess within the US (don't know about other country's drug laws).

    So, the drug probably decomposes to t7 ex vivo as well as in vivo.

    Maybe the mods want to think about shifting this to ADD, since none of us have experience here in PD with it (or does somebody???). I think when there is not a chance for subjective reports (where this forum shines), then ADD might be a better place (chemistry is def not my strong point!).
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    #6
    Bluelight Crew morninggloryseed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by samadhi_smiles
    It will just dehydroxylate into 2CT7 in the stomach I think. It will be identical to 2CT7 subjectively. The reason why this is not more evident in Shulgin's reports are that he did not do a wide enough swath of tests (plus with the power of suggestion that he undoubtedly hyped up to his testers).

    .
    I don't know about that. Speculating of course, the time course on two of the the HOTs reported are distinctly different than that of their corresponding 2C-Ts. 2C-T-7 is never 6-8 hr (as HOT-7 is) and 2C-T-12 is never more than 12 hours (as HOT-17 is). I think even if the HOTs are oxidized in-vivo that the end result is going to be different...just as the 4-AcO-Ts are 'different' to most of here than the corresponding 4-HO-Ts....due to absorbtion rates/the AcOs being active in, and of themselves, etc.
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    #7
    Indeed... I think the Aco-Ts have shown us that oxidation in the body does not necessarily mean the effects will be identical.

    Anyone else think we should move this to ADD?
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    #8
    Ex-Bluelighter Gaian Planes's Avatar
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    Hey MGS,

    well I think that 4-aco-Ts can cross the BBB (see the thread in this forum on the first page about my and others thoughts on it). So it really is a bit of a disanalogy.

    Do you think the difference in time and effects could be due to not a large enough sample size for HOT7? I do.

    I think a lot of shulgin's work is flawed for this very reason (aleph-1 comes to mind!).

    For instance, my +3 trip on 2CT7 (I usually only try each phenethylamine once out of curiousity) was 6 hours (though I plugged it). Not 12.

    That said, I'd pay lots for some HOT7 since I loved t7 so much. It was WONDERFUL WONDERFUL stuff. But, I'm talking to you about that (preaching to the choir).

    peace,
    samadhi
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    #9
    Bluelight Crew morninggloryseed's Avatar
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    >Do you think the difference in time and
    >effects could be due to not a large enough
    >sample size for HOT7? I do.

    Not personally. I've worked with threshold and sub-threshold of T7, and it was never just a 6-8hr experience. But I acknowledge that T7 is quite variable from person to person. And in your case, it was plugged...not eaten.

    And with HOT-17 being listed as a 12-18hr experience, I'm confident something is different from the 2C-Ts. But pure speculation...someone bring some out and I'll test for myself!

    And in the interest of art......

    A HydrOxyThiophenthylamine (of the N-hydroxylated, 2,5-dimethoxylated, 4-substituted-phenethylamines kind of course) .....

    Last edited by morninggloryseed; 06-03-2008 at 19:44.
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    #10
    Bluelight Crew Jamshyd's Avatar
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    It looks as ugly as other phenethylamines with a 4-methylthio group, but thats just me... I think sulphur makes things stink (and it usually does, now that I think about it...) .
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    #11
    that's a really interesting looking molecule, MGS. for some reason it sticks out to me in terms of appearance.
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    #12
    Quote Originally Posted by samadhi_smiles
    For instance, my +3 trip on 2CT7 (I usually only try each phenethylamine once out of curiousity) was 6 hours (though I plugged it). Not 12.
    Well, consider that 2C-T-7 orally can take up to 4 hours to fully manifest, whereas rectally it comes up quite fast indeed. Add that to the fact that rectal dosing tends to reduce the trail-off/aftereffect stage, and it would make sense that it lasts 6-8 hours rectally. In fact that sounds about in line with my rectal T-7 experiences.
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    #13
    Bluelight Crew Jamshyd's Avatar
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    ^I can echo this wrt. oral dosing duration. I cannot comment on rectal, since T-7 is one of the few I haven't tried that way, and have no intention on doing so.
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    #14
    I've worked with threshold and sub-threshold of T7, and it was never just a 6-8hr experience. But I acknowledge that T7 is quite variable from person to person. And in your case, it was plugged...not eaten.

    And with HOT-17 being listed as a 12-18hr experience, I'm confident something is different from the 2C-Ts.
    With stuff that lasts this long i don't think you can accurately compare durations, if the come-down lasts 8 hours it's pretty hard to judge or define when it's finished. Also the highest dose of HOT-17 was 20mg higher than 2CT17, which probably equates to at least 15mg more.
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    #15
    Ex-Bluelighter Gaian Planes's Avatar
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    DP, so do you think its just a prodrug for the respective 2CTx?
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    #16
    Or maybe the other way round? Google turned up lots of drugs that are apparently metabolised to hydroxylamines. It seems to me to make sense too, it could function as a handle to aid excretion or metabolism. I don't really know.
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    #17
    Ex-Bluelighter Gaian Planes's Avatar
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    ah interesting, yeah PMA is demethylated into PHA (as per my post above) and it does seem like a few others are similar.
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    #18
    In any event, I've seen it on the market only once and in all likelihood a more accurate description of the substance being pandered would be NOT-7.
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    #19
    why do u say that
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    #20
    Bluelighter egor's Avatar
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    The hole hot series is quite interesting. Will hot-7 for example still show the MAOI activity of its non-hydroxy counterpart??
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    #21
    Ex-Bluelighter Gaian Planes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tobala
    In any event, I've seen it on the market only once and in all likelihood a more accurate description of the substance being pandered would be NOT-7.
    ha too true
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    #22
    Bluelight Crew willow11's Avatar
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    Hot-7. I bet you that Shulging thought himself quite the wit with that name. Is it not still considered a 2C, two carbons ET. AL.?
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    #23
    Well I believed he coined the word "tweetio" himself and at one point had considered calling a series of his creations TWAT-X.

    The guy obviously watched too many cartoons in his youth, probably along the genre of Fritz the Cat...old genius bastard...
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    #24
    Bluelight Crew Jamshyd's Avatar
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    He actually comments on his naming at several places in PiHKAL. The one I particularly remember is in the commentary for the MAL entry, and how "MAL" reflects the nature of the drug.
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    #25
    Bluelight Crew fastandbulbous's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by samadhi_smiles
    ah interesting, yeah PMA is demethylated into PHA (as per my post above) and it does seem like a few others are similar.

    That's because of an enzyme (catechol O-methyl transferase) with PMA. With hydroxylamines like these, you only need the slightest decomposition of the hydroxylamine to the amine and you are deep in the merde with absolutely no excuse to fall back on.

    In terms of where you stand legally, I'd rate them in the same category as ALD-52 ie by the time LE get ahold of it, there'll be some traces of the compounds you really don't it to have degraded to
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