Heroin heroin. to cook or not to cook?

[ptrsnake13]

I've seen and done the same as you since 1968. I still cook it because it kills some impurities. Not all, but every little bit helps
Pete

 

[Znegative]

what? That is incorrect... if you have 1mL of water (one shot) and want to shoot a bunch of oxy, up to around 120-140mg of oxycodone will dissolve in one mL of water. All the rest is just binders that you are making dissolve...

Think about it, only 10-25% of a pill is usually the active drug, often less, so it shouldn't be hard to get enough OXY in one mL that you have to do multiple shots. 120mgs of oxy banged at once is ALOT. ( Using oxy as example cuz of your avatar)

As far as heroin, its solubility is 149mg/ml, so you would have to be shooting some pretty good shit to max that out.

You are deluding yourself with the heating thing. If you are that concerned, and aren't going to take my advice on getting some supplies, I would say to run the mixture through a large 5mL syringe with densely packed cotton and 1-2 layers of coffee or lab filters also. then when you have the filtered liquid, pull the plunger out, pour it pack in, and run it through again. The large surface area of powder means that whatever didn't dissolve into solution the first time, probably will if you pull the solution through 2 more times. I would then filter with a similar but new setup (pre-wet the cotton and pack it tightly) and try that.

It really is worth it to just go the sterile route though...

wow that seems like not that much heroin, but I guess most of the dope I come across is cut to hell. I never used more than 20units of water for three bag shots, I wonder if I was wasting any dope. You still don't really have to heat Oxy IR to fit that amount in your syringe. You can just dissolve two of them at a time, and then spray your solution of say 60mg over another 60mg of oxy. Youll probably lose a little oxy doing that, but you'd still probably get more out of than trying to melt down 200mg or so at a time. Heating pills is a real bad idea to get in the habit of doing. When I was shooting bupe+Benadryl, I really fucked up my veins cause i would heat the diphenhydramine to try and get more in the syringe

 

[F1n1shed]

So i know this has been covered and the general consensus is not to heat. But what about tar, mine does dissolve in cold water but i'm really worried about the bacteria. I have got an infection / pneumonia from shooting tar in my nose. Should i heat it to kill bacteria or it doesn't matter just cold shot it?

 

[Swimmingdancer]

So i know this has been covered and the general consensus is not to heat. But what about tar, mine does dissolve in cold water but i'm really worried about the bacteria. I have got an infection / pneumonia from shooting tar in my nose. Should i heat it to kill bacteria or it doesn't matter just cold shot it?

Most people recommend heating tar in order to fully dissolve it and to lighten the colour/make it more clear. Whether or not heating kills any bacteria etc is a huge controversy. What I was always told was that it would take 5 minutes in order to completely sterilize the solution and eliminate ALL bacteria AND viruses, but that heating it briefly can still kill some, if not most, bacteria. Everyone where I live always cooks their dope (yes, including white or tan heroin) unless they are trying to be super-quick and don't have a spoon and lighter (in which case putting the whole thing into their syringe is not going to eliminate any of the cut at all).

Here is an info page about the topic from HeroinHelper: http://www.heroinhelper.com/user/admin/cold_shot.shtml

They strongly believe that the benefits of cooking your dope outweigh the disadvantages. However, as you can tell from this thread, many people do not agree and think that the risk of dissolving the cut is not worth it.

HeroinHelper claims that the issue of dissolved cuts can be greatly reduced by letting your dope cool and filtering it before drawing it up and injecting it. They also say that the most common cuts, such as sugar or coffee, are already pretty soluble in cold water so heating doesn't make much difference.

 

[Swain]

i inject 300 to 420mg of oxy at a time

Surely that can't be worse than injecting like 5 good bags of dope at once? It's all about tolerance.. but I see people even doing shots bigger than 5 bags of nyc doep (which is like a bundle of dope from paterson).

 

[Swain]

Most people recommend heating tar in order to fully dissolve it and to lighten the colour/make it more clear. Whether or not heating kills any bacteria etc is a huge controversy. What I was always told was that it would take 5 minutes in order to completely sterilize the solution and eliminate ALL bacteria AND viruses, but that heating it briefly can still kill some, if not most, bacteria. Everyone where I live always cooks their dope (yes, including white or tan heroin) unless they are trying to be super-quick and don't have a spoon and lighter (in which case putting the whole thing into their syringe is not going to eliminate any of the cut at all).

Here is an info page about the topic from HeroinHelper: http://www.heroinhelper.com/user/admin/cold_shot.shtml

They strongly believe that the benefits of cooking your dope outweigh the disadvantages. However, as you can tell from this thread, many people do not agree and think that the risk of dissolving the cut is not worth it.

HeroinHelper claims that the issue of dissolved cuts can be greatly reduced by letting your dope cool and filtering it before drawing it up and injecting it. They also say that the most common cuts, such as sugar or coffee, are already pretty soluble in cold water so heating doesn't make much difference.

Recently the city did some shit with teh pipes and the water was brown, they put out a bulletin saying to boil for 15 minutes before drinking or cooking with it. I don't get what your trying to kill though by heating your shot? Is your dope making people sick with bacteria or somethiung? Ive just used cold tap water never heated a shot never had 'ciotton fever'.

There is no benefit to cook your dope, absolutely none, unless you have no choice becuase its tar in which case you use JUST enough heat to dissolve it.

LOL cooking for 15 minutes wtf..

 

[spenny17]

***COMING FROM REAL PERSONAL EXPERIENCE***

Hey Guys,

So many different answers from various people regarding whether heroin needs to be heated before ready for injection. For tar heroin, cooking is most definately the best route, simply because it is the only realistic way of breaking the drug down to mix. For POWDER heroin: in swims years of experience in using (not proud) the BEST way to prepare POWDER to achieve the BEST POSSIBLE HIGH, you need to use a combination of the various techniques mentioned by others in this thread. Regarding the attempt to rid any bacteria in your powder, as a few have already mentioned, the mixture would need to be boiled to bubbling point for at least 15 minutes. Doing this is not only a good way to totally waste your junk, but also you would have needed to mix your powder in ALOT of water to be able to boil it for that long without it completely evaporating on you.

NOW: the BEST way to get the MAXIMUM HIGH from your POWDERED junk is as follows:
What you want to do is still apply heat to your cooker/spoon but not much. Just enough so that all substances are able to thoroughly dissolve. As someone mentioned, most of the stuff that is extrememly hard to dissolve is just whatever it has been cut with. ALSO, just because your stuff conpletely dissolves, does NOT mean your stuff is top quality. Most of the time, its because whatever was used to cut the batch was also a substance which dissolves in liquid. So like i said, apply enough heat so that you are able to dissolve the junk. DO NOT heat so much that your mixture begins to bubble and boil. Boiling your junk MOST DEFINATELY takes away from its potency. TRUST ME. In SWIMS early stages whiles experimenting, he would always heat to boiling point. Once he stopped heating so much, he noticed how much STRONGER his hits became, leading to the need to use less which js always a good thing . You want to heat it just enough that you start to see little TINY air bubbles forming on the bottom of your cooker/spoon. Once you see those little air bubbles, STOP. You DONT NOT want those bubbles to start rising meaning its now boiling and has been heated TOO MUCH. Once you see those little air bubbles, it is good enough that any junk that is left undissolved is not junk anyways, all the good stuff will be dissolved by now and you will avoid losing potency.

Give it a try next time you MOST DEFINATELY notice how much stronger your hit is if you had been used to boiling ur junk. Vice versa, if you had been using no heat at all and just stirring in cold water, you will ensure all your junk has been dissolved and that your getting the maximum out of it for a good clean shot without having to worry about losing any potency give it a try guys, you will be very pleased with the results!

Happy hitting!

 

[tricomb]

^ We don't SWIM here, please review our forum guidelines.

Nor is boiling helpful to heroin. Heroin is freely soluble in cold water, and all heat does is introduce normally insoluble contaminates into the solution, and is contrary to HR. To be safer, filter properly with a micron, especially with black tar heroin (the kind people assume they need to heat) I have no idea why your goal is "apply enough heat so that you are able to dissolve the junk". After writing that out, I realize you probably are using the word 'junk' to refer to heroin, but literally that's what you're doing, introducing garbage to your solution, that passes through filters and is then mainlined. It's bad for your health.

Related Reading

 

[tricomb]

^ We don't SWIM here, please review our forum guidelines.

Nor is boiling helpful to heroin. Heroin is freely soluble in cold water, and all heat does is introduce normally insoluble contaminates into the solution, and IMO is contrary to HR. To be safer, filter properly with a micron, especially with black tar heroin (the kind people assume they need to heat) I have no idea why your goal is "apply enough heat so that you are able to dissolve the junk". After writing that out, I realize you probably are using the word 'junk' to refer to heroin, but literally that's what you're doing, introducing garbage to your solution, that passes through filters and is then mainlined. It's bad for your health.

Checkout what happens with pharmaceuticals when you apply heat. Basically the same thing happens to the cuts in heroin, the particles expand in size so they are way more problematic in your circulatory system, where they likely will end up clogging the fine particles of your lungs.

Related Reading

NSFW:

This has been an issue for a long time now and it's about time we consolidated all of our information into one thread. As I find them (there are many), I'll add links to other relevant threads on this topic, and if you feel you have something to add, please do so we can put something together and save some people from themselves!

I'm copying and pasting what I wrote in the beginners guide to heroin. This is written for BTH but applies to all pharmaceutical opiates, however the "cut" is referring to the inactive ingredients added to commonly abused prescription opioids such as oxycodone (OxyContin, Roxicodone, OxyNorm, Oxy IR, etc), hydromorphone (Dilaudid, Exalgo, HydromorphContin), oxymorphone (Opana, Numorphan, Numorphone), Methadone (Methadose), Morphine (Morphine, MSContin, Roxanol, MS IR, Kadian, Avinza) and various others.

NONE OF THESE SHOULD BE HEATED WHEN PREPARING FOR PARENTERAL INJECTION.

Black Tar Heroin:

• Black Tar Heroin is prevalent on the West Coast of the United States

HR note to all as the issue of applying heat to opiates has been a very hot topic (no pun intended) as of late.

According to the experience of many, and the science that back's it up, under most circumstances in the USA you do not heat heroin. Especially not powder heroin, but not tar either.

The reason you don't ever apply heat is, when you do apply heat tar, you introduce all the contaminates, cuts, and probably degrade the active ingredient a little bit while allowing all the precipitate matter to join the solution. YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO BE LEFT WITH VISIBLE "TAR" IN YOUR SPOON, ALL THE HEROIN HAS GONE INTO THE WATER. THE VISIBLE "TAR" IS INACTIVE INGREDIENT, LIKELY THE SUBSTANCE THAT YOUR HEROIN HAS BEEN CUT WITH. This is only difference between a hot shot and cold shot of heroin, hot shots DO NOT get you higher.

Don't be fooled by what you see, your eyes cannot see milligrams, but all the heroin has all gone into the cold water. Many people's eyes play tricks on them when they heat the solution and no longer cannot see the particulate matter, but it's is still there, but melted in with solution.

When you run a solution that was heated/cooked and not allowed to completely cool down in time, when you run it through the filter, the adulterants/contaminates/inactive ingredients slip right through the filter and into your syringe. Even though it may look clear to you, it is almost as dangerous as IVing without a filter, since the filter couldn't effectively filter out the particulate matter from the cooked/hot solution of heroin/water/melted cut.


Another common myth is that cooking your shots kills all bacteria eliminating risk of bacterial infection. This is false because bacteria thrive in wet, warm/hot environments, and if you actually applied enough heat to kill all bacteria, you would have degraded the active ingredient, heroin, significantly. So another reason to do cold shots: No added degradation of heroin. To minimize risk of bacterial infection, practice proper injection technique, absolutely EVERYTHING that comes in contact with the drug, your solution, your rigs, etc, must be sterile. When mashing the heroin with a plunger in cold water in your cooker or spoon, be EXTRA sure that you've sterilized the plunger, and have washed your hands with isopropyl alcohol, or even better use non-latex gloves. There are more germs on your fingers than most other parts of your body so it is VITAL that you maintain a sterile environment every step of the preparation and injection procedure.
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With pharmaceuticals it's important to remember that when you're prepping a shot of, for example, oxymorphone IR, there is up to 10mg of active ingredient hidden amongst hundreds to thousands of milligrams of inactive ingredients, and it's important to filter out as much of this as you can, using clean water.

See the inactive ingredients in medications and Pill-Mass Ratios (take note that it's from 2010 and new formulation pills may not be accurate, so if you have the means to contribute to this thread please do)

Why?? Read the Case Studies

Tommyboy brought this to my attention and since it's highly relevant I'm just going to copy and paste it here with a link to the original thread:

Written for opiophile, but decided I'd post it here as well
Introduction & Context
I recently attended a pill injection workshop in Australia, among the people at this workshop, there was a man called Dr. Bruno Raimondo, him and his team are running research into opioid pills such as OxyContin, MSContin and Subutex and the effectiveness of filtering. In the morphine forum I already summarized a document he did, I managed to obtain a copy of the slides he used at the presentation, although he has not released the formal version (which I will link to when he has) of the research, the slides he has emailed me are sufficient for the information people need to know.
Too long didn't read:
Don't heat pills, 2-3ml of water soaking your finely powdered pill, with a 1ml rinse through your filter (SHOULD be using a wheel filter) will give you the best results. Wheel filters are necessity they don't retain any drug (95-99% is let through, cotton filters let through less). Expect health problems down the road if you shoot cotton filtered pills.
Harms of pill injection
Injecting pills (or anything) can result in contaminants entering your body such as insoluble particles or bacteria and fungi. These things can irritate and inflame tissue and veins, cause infections in skin/muscle (granuloma, abscess). They can also result in local and systemic infection from the bacteria/fungi.

Insoluble and undissolved particles can cause microcirculation capillaries (5-10um) to become blocked, they clog up in the heart and lungs. Granulomas in the lungs are caused by inflammation which leads to scar tissue (fibrosis). Congmomerate masses lead to restrictive lung disease and pulmonary hypertension. The particles also reach other organs (liver, kidney etc).

Key particles in pills (OxyContin, MSContin, Subutex)

Other insoluble particles included are:
Magnesium stearate (5-30um)
Titanium dioxide (100um clumps) (ms, oxy)
Other particles that change form in heat are:
Stearyl alcohol MP is 59*C (ms, oxy)
Eudragit RS 30D clumps at >30*C (oxy)

All these particles cause problems in your heart, lungs and other organs, the chemicals that change form in heart are the reasons why pills should NOT be heated, and you will soon find out there is no advantage to heating.

Why pills shouldn't be heated

As you can see, of these images under a microscope, heating pill solutions cause enourmous particles to dissolve in the mix. These particles will pass through the filter (wheel or cotton) and recongeal, precipitating out in your filtered mix or veins.

Ok so I shouldn't heat, what about Rollie cigarette filter filtering (or cotton).

For comparison: MSContin rollies reduce particles >5um by 60%.

What about the drug retained?

For subutex 97% of the drug is returned in this process.
Drug is not retained in the filter after this, even if the filter is wet.
.
Wheel filters (and why they rock!)
Here is the solution of two pills under a microscope before and after wheel filtering

But how many particles are removed by the wheel filters?

But what about drug recovery

For subutex drug recovery is 99%
*Note: One of the researches reminded me to say that when they first did these tests, their technique with wheel filters was poor, and that morphine recovery is more like 95-99%

So as you can see, using wheel filters removes all the particles that cause harm (basically), with a rinse of water after first filter, you can retain 95-99% of the drug (better then a cotton/rollie filter) while removing 99% of the particles that cause harm, and heating is generally a bad idea that does NOT help at all, and does more harm then good.
Note: Hand rolled cigarette filters filter to about 50um.

Another document for the national drug safety council, which focused mainly on morphine and wheel filters, also contains a lot of information. It is located here.

I also posted this in Australian drug discussion but was told to also post it here.

(source)

STAY SAFE!

 

[spenny17]

Sorry for the swim, bad habit
I guess but aside from that, if you had bothered to actually read anything i said or comprehend it, i didnt say to boil it. In fact, i mentioned at least twice that you should NOT boil your powdered junk, for one; it can sometimes cause you to lose some potentcy and two, its not actually going to destroy any bacteria that may exist unless if is boiled for a long time.. Which is just stupid.

But thanks captain obvious. Next time put your reading glasses on so you can avoid making yourself look like an idiot by first reading improperly. then having the nerve to tell me im wrong. THEN, you try to correct me by just repeating the same thing i had already posted lol. Im totally baffled by the ignorance of certain individuals sometimes lol.

 

[first time poster]

it seems i've a lot to say concerning said subject.
remember what doesn't kill you makes you stronger.
also a dogs mouth is supposedly cleaner then a humans.
i have never used an alchohol prep never ever in 24 years of fixin dope.
i've used the same pin fer weeks at a time.
also the same bottle of water for weeks at a time.
what i'm saying is my body probally would go into shock from a sterile solution?
peace /respect dawg,

haha samesies w the less than sterile shit. and i?ve been fine. ive used spit when i didn?t have water several times. just wanted to share-even tho not proud-just showing that there?s not always a need to fear monger

 

[Scrofula]

haha samesies w the less than sterile shit. and i?ve been fine. ive used spit when i didn?t have water several times. just wanted to share-even tho not proud-just showing that there?s not always a need to fear monger

You sound like you could use some fear-mongering. Especially your own spit--the bacteria that live on your gums shouldn't get introduced into your bloodstream, or you're asking for a heart valve infection.

You can run blindly out into traffic and live too, but they guy who tells you that's stupid isn't fear-mongering.