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Thread: heroin. to cook or not to cook?

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    needles and pinz ah 
    #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Groovy guru
    It takes cooking for that long to get rid of all the spores and to make something absolutely sterile. But boiling it for a short time will kill most of the bacteria and inactivate many of the viruses and reduce the risk...
    it seems i've a lot to say concerning said subject.
    remember what doesn't kill you makes you stronger.
    also a dogs mouth is supposedly cleaner then a humans.
    i have never used an alchohol prep never ever in 24 years of fixin dope.
    i've used the same pin fer weeks at a time.
    also the same bottle of water for weeks at a time.
    what i'm saying is my body probally would go into shock from a sterile solution?
    peace /respect dawg,
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    #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Groovy guru
    It takes cooking for that long to get rid of all the spores and to make something absolutely sterile. But boiling it for a short time will kill most of the bacteria and inactivate many of the viruses and reduce the risk...
    That's the reasoning I use.


    As for cooking dissolving more cuts... I've never experienced this. All the dope I've ever cooked has been completely dissolved, as least to the naked eye, before any heat has been applied. Now, a few times cooking it did precipitate a black film on top of the dope. I figured that it was a specific cut reacting to the heat. A cotton picked up all of the visible black shit. That dope sucked, and it only happened with one or two batches.


    Heating for a little bit, until bubbles are visible at the bottom of your cooker, isn't going to fuck up your shot. Why not do it? The potential benefits outweigh the risks, IMO.
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    #28
    Bluelight Crew SKL's Avatar
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    I do not cook but I do boil my water beforehand. I have never had a problem and I am pretty sure as others have said that any length of time with a lighter and a spoon is unlikely to hurt bacteria or other nasties.
    edit-this is east coast, downtown brown powder heroin
    Last edited by SomeKindaLove; 29-02-2008 at 16:50.
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    #29
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    I read this whole thread and Im still torn between whether to cook or not to cook. I just told my friend to stop cooking because i thought i knew what i was tlaking about, now im going to have to tell him I have no idea what im talking about and to do what he wants.
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    #30
    Quote Originally Posted by bow-viper1
    What the fuck are you doing injecting 80 units of water? That's the reason you aren't getting a good high when you cook it. Try cooking it with like 20-30 units. You'll get a much better high.
    J/w, why does less water matter, isn't it the same amount of dope?
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    #31
    Bluelighter chinacat311's Avatar
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    ^^ yeah i think his point was kind of (completely) ridiculous. in fact, when you are cooking (even when your not, but it makes less of a difference then), i figure it is better to have more water that not because some will ebaporate, but if you evaporate 5 units and you only have 30 unites total thats a bigger percentage of your mix than if you have 80 units and 5 of it evaporates.

    plus, the more water the better because there is always some amount (albeit small) of liquid left in the spoon (a thin film and/or some in the cotton), so again the more water you use overall the less concentrated it is and the less you lose when you can't get every last drop. AND if you lose any squirting out the top of the syringe to get all the air out or by missing part of a shot, again you will lose less for all the same reasons..

    simple math.. losing/missing/evaporating 5units out of a 80 unit shot is a lot less wasteful that losing 5 units out of a 20-30 unit shot..its simply being cautious to use more water. plus ive heard its better on your veins, it stings less (when its tar) and if you miss a few units at the end or something you dont lose half your shot.

    you dont get "a much better high" from only using 20 units of water as opposed to 80. thats just absurd. you might have felt that way because its quicker to inject 20 units and the rush might come on a tiny bit faster but i highly doubt that. chalk it up to placebo if it isnt just blind speculation on your part.

    some people say cooking it kills some of the dope, but that isnt possible seeing as heroin evaporates at 275 degrees C and water boils at 100 degrees C, meaning you solution never gets any hotter than 100 degrees, therefore it never gets hot enough to "kill" the dope.

    one thing you want to keep in mind when cooking though, be sure to let the solution cool sufficiently before pulling it up into the rig. its not good for obvious reasons to inject a near boiling solution. if you dont have time to wait do what i do and leave 10-20 units in the syringe after you fill the spoon, and squirt that room-temp water in once you are done cooking to cool down the solution.
    Last edited by chinacat311; 29-02-2008 at 18:25.
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    #32
    Bluelighter psychedelicious's Avatar
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    ^case closed
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    #33
    Bluelighter Arsteraad's Avatar
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    has anyone mentioned that cooking is sometimes necessary?
    like the op, i too hail from chicago and the dope i get simply will not dissolve if heat is not added, you can stir that shit all you want and it it will simply become a suspension, with the undissolved shit floating on the top.

    i dont know about the bacteriocidal benefits of cooking dope but, doing so always yields a more uniform solution, i dont know if that is because the cuts are dissolved by the heat and therefore you have a potentially more toxic situation, but then again i'd rather inject a fully dissolved cut than one which is only half-so.

    there are a few rare instances in which i can prep the shot w/o having to cook it, but this is usually because the water to dope ratio is close to 2:1. as its been mentioned before, the more water the less cooking. But personaly i always bring the solution to a boil for a sec, and then stir, and finally inject.

    But if you do cook, always remember, let that shit cool, you dont want to inject water close to the boiling point.

    Happy shooting!
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    #34
    Bluelight Crew sixpartseven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackdog
    seriously think about this ...matter of fact try this at home,get 30 units of water from a 1cc pin and squirt it into a soup spoon and hold a flame under it first for 15 minutes ,then do it again fot 3-5 minutes, and again for 15-30 seconds and see the temp.too much heat will cook the dope out of the solution first of all or jell the cuts. especially if they are pharmacuetical.
    and most of all i don't know of too many junkies that have the patience to wait more then they have to, to boot up. i mean if it turns to solution without heat then there wont be any heat used at all.just bang zoom.
    dawg,
    oh wait a minute........you guys are talking about tar? oh shit man i'm all about east coast powder a nice off white or light brown. and you put the water on it, a few flicks of warmth from your lighter and you can smell it asking to be sent up yer tubes i/v. it gets the color of coca-cola and you'll be smacking your lips in anticipation getting a little jittery as you tie up and proceed to stick that pin of liquid pleasure and warmth and well being into your bodie. oh baby let the lady HERON wrap her arms around you and hold you tight in her everloving embrace......yummie
    I never said that you should cook your dope for that long. Im on the side of this argument that says its pointless to cook it at all. And BTW, you arent supposed to heat pills when you shoot them for that exact reason.

    And no, Im not talking about tar. I said tar is the only dope that should be heated. Im on the East Coast too and my shit dissolves like snow when it hits water, so there is absolutely no need to heat it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Arsteraad
    has anyone mentioned that cooking is sometimes necessary?
    like the op, i too hail from chicago and the dope i get simply will not dissolve if heat is not added, you can stir that shit all you want and it it will simply become a suspension, with the undissolved shit floating on the top.
    Those are the cuts. The heroin will dissolve readily leaving any cuts that arent soluble floating on the top. You dont want that dissolving.
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    #35
    Bluelighter Arsteraad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sixpartseven
    Those are the cuts. The heroin will dissolve readily leaving any cuts that arent soluble floating on the top. You dont want that dissolving
    i know they are the cuts, but i find that if i don't dissolve them, they clog the rig, also hw sure are you that the heroin dissolves perfectly into water, maybe yours does because youre on the east coast and the shit you get is purer. Also not all powder is the pure hydrochloride salt, its possible that some batches can be more basic than others, but hey you seem to know a lot more anout what im referring to here, so defer my judgement.
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    #36
    Bluelighter Arsteraad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackdog
    it seems i've a lot to say concerning said subject.
    remember what doesn't kill you makes you stronger.
    also a dogs mouth is supposedly cleaner then a humans.
    i have never used an alchohol prep never ever in 24 years of fixin dope.
    i've used the same pin fer weeks at a time.
    also the same bottle of water for weeks at a time.
    what i'm saying is my body probally would go into shock from a sterile solution?
    peace /respect dawg,
    wow.
    is this supposed to be some kind of poem extolling the virtues of being a dirty ass motherfucker when IVing shit and breaking all the basic rules of the harm reducton philosophy?

    Youre hardcore man

    Do not follow this guys advice dawg
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    #37
    Bluelighter rave23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Groovy guru
    It takes cooking for that long to get rid of all the spores and to make something absolutely sterile. But boiling it for a short time will kill most of the bacteria and inactivate many of the viruses and reduce the risk...

    so you say if i heat up my needles i can share them, cause the heat will destroy the HIV virus righty-o man, righty-o...

    Sorry, but you are full of it

    // I'd like to invite you for dinner and educate you about bacteria, viri, and spores man. Did you finish biology in high school?
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    #38
    Quote Originally Posted by rave23
    so you say if i heat up my needles i can share them, cause the heat will destroy the HIV virus righty-o man, righty-o...

    Sorry, but you are full of it

    // I'd like to invite you for dinner and educate you about bacteria, viri, and spores man. Did you finish biology in high school?
    Actually, I have a doctorate in biochemistry.

    Re-read my post and see what I actually did say.

    If you get a chance some time in your career, try plating bacteria and phage at too high a temperature and tell me what happens to the titer...
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    #39
    Bluelighter chinacat311's Avatar
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    ^ haha pwned. ^

    i always cook..clearly it will not sterilize your solution, but im pretty sure it will kill some of the bacteria and if you are unlucky enough to have viruses in the shot maybe a couple of them will be destroyed too.
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    #40
    Bluelighter Arsteraad's Avatar
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    he was ''pwned'' because the guy claims to have a doctorate in biochem?

    you know its amazing that you actually have any spare time to take off the lecture circuit and devote it to the illumination of our base minds. Just joshing though, i'm sure you more than deserve the doctorate that you possess and the privllege/salary that goes along with it.

    I'm just sick of the word "pwned'', confine that shit to online gaming.
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    #41
    Bluelighter rave23's Avatar
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    fuck that, i just can't be bothered by people like him.
    Telling someone to cook their smack because it kills and inactivates most viri, is just asking for trouble. It just suggests a safe feeling while doing something that is highly controversial when it comes to safe practice.

    Most problems come from actuall particles / stuff in your shot, not because of viri in the smack. If you miss the shot, well, that's bad luck and something else. But telling me that cooking is more safe is bullshit. If it does one thing, it disolves stuff that wouldn't disolve using normal temperature. Cold water is like an additional filter, heating up and disolving everything makes the cotton filter kinda useless... Imagine all the wax and shit you'd get in your shot if you cook pills and shit...

    doctor in biochem or not, that guy is a moron who is hiding behind titles Get some street smarts man... Because you're a doc makes every word that comes out of your mouth worth more than mine? Get a fucking grip man...
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    #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Arsteraad
    he was ''pwned'' because the guy claims to have a doctorate in biochem?

    you know its amazing that you actually have any spare time to take off the lecture circuit and devote it to the illumination of our base minds. Just joshing though, i'm sure you more than deserve the doctorate that you possess and the privllege/salary that goes along with it.

    I'm just sick of the word "pwned'', confine that shit to online gaming.
    Guys - I didn't mean to start a flame war (haha) - I was just trying to be helpful. I don't expect or care if anyone believes my qualifications (btw - getting a doctorate is a lousy way to obtain privilege/salary...). I also hate it when people try to pull rank in an argument rather than sticking to facts so these are the facts that you can check in any microbiology lab manual.

    Normally, to ensure sterility, glassware is autoclaved (pressure cooked) for at least 15 minutes because it actually takes a higher than boiling temperature to kill the spores.

    But for spread plating the glass spreader is simply dipped in ethanol and passed through a flame. This is sufficient to kill all the bacteria.

    A technique for growing a lawn of bacteria is to put them into a soft agar solution which is kept around 60 deg C. This is then poured onto a petri dish of hard agar. Students sometimes (often) screw up and don't wait long enough for their solution to cool and you won't get a proper lawn of bacteria because they are killed.

    That's what I base my assertion that boiling kills most of the bacteria but not all.
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    #43
    Bluelighter rave23's Avatar
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    i guess it depends on what strain of bacteria you're trying to grow. I imagine that there are some that are quite sensitive to heat, and others that are quite resistant. Leave alone the virus... The ones that make it in your smack will most likely be the reisistant kinda bacteria, since smack isn't the best medium to grow on to begin with
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    #44
    ^
    I agree that there is some dependence on strains - the one you are most likely to see is probably staph (smells like rotten socks). Also, there will be some inactivation of viruses because of denaturation of the protein coat but that will definitely depend on the strain.

    I also agree that it won't be all of them nor is it enough to make it "safe" because you really do have to kill all of them for that. I just wanted to point out that it's not an absolute - that bacteria and viruses are not some sort of superhero gods but I will be more careful with my wording in the future to separate the theoretical from the practical.

    Your explanation of why people cook makes a lot of sense - and that's what I would have guessed was the reason - and FWIW - that's why I read this board - to learn about things that don't happen in the lab...

    But man it really is a war zone in here...
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    #45
    Bluelighter rave23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Groovy guru
    But man it really is a war zone in here...
    oh, forgot about that. P.L.U.R
    Have a hug man, no war here, 'mkay?
    *passes on the joint*
    lets atone us with our fellows in a glowing exaltation of affection

    Lets not preach hate"!
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    #46
    Bluelighter rollingsixxxes's Avatar
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    uhhh, i started this thread about cooking or not cooking heroin. not growing bacteria!!!! kinda got off track a lil bit but now every response is about bacteria etc etc. so lets please try to stick to my original question. no need to flame or argue. its pointless.
    =-]
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    #47
    I cooked, and used sterile or sterilized needles, syringes etc.

    All my hep-c tests have been negative (likewise HIV), and I have never got abscess, infections or like...

    Wait, I have had infections

    I don't know whether people should cook. I think it is better to cook...
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    #48
    What I've learned from wilderness survival is that as soon as water reaches a boil it becomes safe to drink. That means that many of the harmful organisms in the water are killed off very quickly, just by reaching a certain temperature. It's kind of like how you have to cook meat to a certain temperature to kill off salmonella. it doesn't matter how long you cook it for, you just have to get the meat to a certain temp. . Obviously drinking freshly boiled river water is not the same thing as shooting it up in your veins. . . those are two very different things, we don't have stomach acid in our veins. . . too bad, am I right?. Still, it is correct to say that many harmful organisms, bacteria and parasites are killed off with a rapid boil. Viruses are a whole other story. they do not die from a quick boil all the time, and there's many other types of bacteria that will survive being scalded, but it think it's safe to say that bringing your dope up to boiling point even for one second is safer than not doing it at all. It won't make you invincible, but it will lower the risk of an infection.
    on another note, I'm in CA with the tar and I've noticed sometimes heating it up will make little black things show up in the mix that aren't there with a cold shot. I don't know if it's better to solidify these things and then filter them out, or to let them stay binded with the water and then shot them up too. I still like heating my shots up though.
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    #49
    Hi,
    I'm new here.
    But, this thread is very interesting.

    I have a very serious and Urgent reason why I need to (asap) IV heroin.
    It is white powder, so farI have only been sniffing it.

    I have a huge tolerance to opiates. Although, until yesterday, i had never even seen heroin.

    I am not sure at all, how to IV.

    I'm not starting a habit! Believe me.

    I've been on methadone for almost a decade. I am tapering off the methadone by using ANY shorter acting opiate that I can get my hands on.

    I have used Oxycontins, Percocets (weak), now Heroin.

    Any advice on how I filter it through the cotton (?), like:
    1) do I put the cotton on top of the solution of Heroin and water that I will bring just to a boiling point?

    2)do I forget about using cotton at all?

    If I have to use cotton, oksy, then, what?

    Do I put a cotton ball on top of the water and Heroin and stick the (TINY) needle into the cotton?

    Thanks for any help.
    I hope most of you can understand why I am doing what I am doing.

    I know that for so, so, so, so many people, methadone has saved their lives and IT IS, for many people a miracle medication.

    However, for me (and others) it has done nothing but destroy almost every aspect of my life.

    I am not exaggerating (sp?). The simple fact that I am stuck (literally stuck) on methadone has ruined so many parts of me and my life (so horrendously) that I must get off of it now, or dying would be a better alternative..and that cannot happen, as I love my kids too much.

    Honestly, if my son were older, not 7 yrs old..but oldr, like my daughter, who is just now a teenager (a mature one, believe me), then I would do it.
    I already know how, I've counted the pills I would take so I would not feel my death. This is how real it is for me to need to be off of methadone.

    I am a upper-middle class mom, I take the kids to soccer , etc...
    NO ONE would EVER suspect I was on methadone (the people I have told to gauge a reaction, they were so shocked that they almost fell over or took up kickboxing! Seriously, to a lot, to TOO mkany people, people think that if you take methadone, you have stringy, oily hair, bad teeth, you're skinny and you have a bosy odour, etc....etc...) we all know that is NOT even close to being true.
    Their are doctors, pharmacists, teachers, you name it, who are on methadone too.
    The stereotyping is sickening.
    Okay, I'll sto-p the ranting, I am sorry everyone. (I'm putting you all to sleep--I won't do it again, k?)
    A lot of actors too. I knowq for a , let alone trying to shoot heroin...and hopefully being successful at it, so I can buy it somewwhere and keep itr up.

    I will say, that once I am off of the methadone completely..I only have to spend 72 hours in HELL to get the other opiates (Heroin, Oxys, etc...) out of my system.
    ..and since my Endorphins and Dopamine have been severely destroyed over the years while on methadone, I will be taking tylenol with codeine daily. Not overdoing it, just the regular up to 8 to 10 tabs a day.
    Not like ny oareents though. Mom has been addicted to opiates (Codeine) for over 40+ yrs. Dad? I can't begin to count. It's not the codeine, who cares aboiut that, that doesn't hurt you, it's the Acetominophen that kills your lliver.
    In Canada, a bottle of 200 pills that have in them: 8mgs of Codeine/15mgs Caffeiene/325mgs (??) Acetominophen cost close to nothing. (for real, they are so cheap)

    I'm lucky there.

    Any help with how to IV this, especially the cotton part..oh, and how much water do I add?

    Thank you for reading this.
    I swear i am so not usually this boring!

    Reading this for me... that is so appreciated, i am grateful for it.
    thanks all..
    Please help me??

    Peace,
    Hana
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    #50
    Bluelighter rollingsixxxes's Avatar
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    wow i dont know even where to begin with this one.. you think it would be BETTER to start having a IV herion habit than maintaining on methadone??? interesting, for myself and alot of other people, we go on methadone BECAUSE of our IV heroin habit. doesnt that tell you something? i mean, i know how methadone can drain you but if you think heroin is going to be better... i think you are in for a surprise. why dont you try a very slow taper,,. like 5 mgs every week or two. you make it seem like methadone is the worst thing in the world and a IV herion habit would be an IMPROVEMENT. thats kinda silly. and that 72 hours of hell you speak of, is usually alot longer. especially with your years of opiate experience. and IF you can kick the heroin habit you just wont feel "right" you have no dopamine left in you. thats what the methadone does. it replenishes that because the opiates you abused depleted your body's natural poduction.

    anyway to answer your question quickly, put the dope in a cooker or spoon add enough water, not too little, not too much, i always add around 80 units in a 100 unit rig, cook it till it dissolves, then add the cotton and suck it up , get the air bubbles out and slam that shit. get a rush for a couple seconds then want to do it again in 20 minutes. over and over and over again. realize that a shot of heroin will NOT HOLD YOU like the methadone does. not even close. i prefer to be on methadone than heroin. i really do. and im not a newbie. ive had a heroin habit for 11+ years so ive been there done that believe me.

    you need to talk to your dr/clinic about what is going on. if you dont wnat to be on methadone start cutting down dont just cop a dope habit. if you think yoru life is bad now, HAH, just wait till you are sick every couple hours and NOTHING in this world matters to you except your next shot of dope. its not a fun existence. you wont have time for your kids. everything and everyone will take a backseat to your dope habit. trust me. its NOT a road you want to go down but obviously its up to you. and btw its a little expensive. just a tad. please rethink your decision. i dont think your life will get any better from having a herion habit than it would be by having a methadone habit.

    and give us some more history on your mdone program. dosage etc etc. maybe you just need a lower dose. sorry for the long reply but i just dont see how a IV heroin habit will help fix your problem. if anything its the complete opposite. a IV heroin habit is HELL. i know methadone WD can be horrible ive been there but you shouldnt be WDing from methadone. you should take it every day. you cant always get heroin and usually you can never get enough. ever. trust me its never enough. anyway sorry for the long reply i just thought that i needed to say something cause the path you want to go down leads to a place like no other and there is usually no return or escape. its a horrible existence. good luck and be safe. and id like to hear from you on your progress. keep us updated. thanks
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