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Thread: Pure Morphine From Poppy Pods?

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    Pure Morphine From Poppy Pods? 
    #1
    Exclamation
    Any methods or claims are totally hypothetical and academic.
    I do not condone the use of any illicit substances whatsoever.



    This is a Harm Reduction/Purification Thread. Don't anyone mention AA

    sorry for hijacking that other thread [poppy pod question...]

    Anyway... It seems we have an interesting, not much talked about, way of extracting pure morphine from dried pods (for flower arranging of course, they look lovely in a nice vase ), which are legal in many countries. I have done a fair bit of research on the subject, although i have almost no lab skills, I do have common sense, basic chemistry knowledge, i do read a lot and have a strong desire to learn.


    so far i have found a few articles which may be of interest...

    Patent for extraction of alkaloids and purifying morphine from OPIUM, could be different for pods but likely similar


    Another method/review of the aforementioned process


    A patent for extracting alkaloids from dried poppies/pods


    Method of producing Morphine Hydrochloride from base, also give some solubility details.


    Morphine HCl identification/testing and some other info


    Good old wikipedia, useful info there as well


    Can anyone offer more information on the subject, give suggestions, advice etc?
    Im always looking for more knowledge on this subject and practical chemistry in general.

    Comments anyone? or PM if you like...


    sorry i've been talking on for ages... Thats what benzos do to me.
    Well, if one person finds this thread interesting then it's worthwhile.



    best regards to all,
    SWlM
     

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    #2
    Bluelighter drunken_etard's Avatar
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    on the first link, it said u need 5 grams of good opium to get 400-426mgs of around 85% purity morphine. Wow it takes alot of opium to get so little.
     

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    #3
    Bluelighter drunken_etard's Avatar
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    i read them all, many are really stupid articles and pointless extraction techs. BUt yeah thanks anyway for posting it, still an alright read
     

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    #4
    Quote Originally Posted by drunken_etard
    i read them all, many are really stupid articles and pointless extraction techs. BUt yeah thanks anyway for posting it, still an alright read

    stupid articles? how can an extraction that yields morphine from dried pods be pointless?

    maybe its cos my chem skills/knowledge are crap and im just not getting something???

    thanks for replying, any more input from ppl would be great
     

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    #5
    hey man i appreciate your research and persistance in learning, i enjoy reading about extraction teks and the sort so props for the thread man.

    keep em comin!
     

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    #6
    Bluelighter colors's Avatar
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    archenemy tek

    edit: apparently this tek is bogus see rant below.
    Last edited by colors; 10-02-2008 at 09:03.
     

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    #7
    ^ colors, great addition to this thread...

    Is methanol extraction more convenient due to less heat required?
    Any advantages by using water solution?
     

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    #9
    ^ thanks for the input and link, but this thread is about PURE morphine, in crystal form, no codeine or other alkaloids.

    The link you gave seemed more like concentrated poppy tea crudely acetylated, not quite what we're looking for but thanks for the link, i do like to read about these things...
     

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    #10
    Bluelighter colors's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SWlM
    Is methanol extraction more convenient due to less heat required?
    Any advantages by using water solution?
    i'm no authority on the subject, but as i understand it, methanol would still require heating to 60C for several hours. if there's no heat, the soak will take up to a week.

    water is advantageous when evaporation is not required, in terms of fumes and price.
     

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    #11
    Quote Originally Posted by SWlM
    ^ thanks for the input and link, but this thread is about PURE morphine, in crystal form, no codeine or other alkaloids.

    The link you gave seemed more like concentrated poppy tea crudely acetylated, not quite what we're looking for but thanks for the link, i do like to read about these things...
    yeah sorry about that. i know these threads have been done to death, so i kind of just assumed you were talking about that..

    but anyway.

    yeah if it hasnt already been mentioned. check out the somniforum at poppies.org. and the mycotopia forums. mycotopia users are the most enterprising group of chemical/extraction hobbyists out there (outside of the hush hush clandestine synthesis groups). and i know somebody on somniforum has definitely posted a method.

    http://www.poppies.org/forum/

    http://www.mycotopia.net/
     

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    #12
    Quote Originally Posted by colors
    i'm no authority on the subject, but as i understand it, methanol would still require heating to 60C for several hours. if there's no heat, the soak will take up to a week.

    water is advantageous when evaporation is not required, in terms of fumes and price.

    the only "problem" with "your" method is that the heating required (80c) is close to the temperature that breaks down morphine (85c), and anhydrous morphine HCl can be diluted with h20 if needed. I'll look into the volatility of methanol, thanks for your knowledge.


    Newmoonrecord, thanks for those links, this is interesting stuff.


    keep the ideas coming guys, I like this thread.

    -SWlM
     

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    #13
    How do you propose to remove the codeine? Maybe I'm missing something, but they're so closely related, I don't see an easy way to seperate them.

    That part seems difficult. But why do it? They don't do that when making herion, why do it for personal use?
     

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    #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Ham-milton
    How do you propose to remove the codeine? Maybe I'm missing something, but they're so closely related, I don't see an easy way to seperate them.

    That part seems difficult. But why do it? They don't do that when making herion, why do it for personal use?


    Code:
    (removal)
    Foreign Alkaloids: Disolve 1 gram of Morphine HCl in 10cc of NaOH T.S. in a
     seperator, and shake the solution with successive portions of 15cc, 10cc,
     and 10cc of chloroform, passing the chloroform solutions through a small
     filter previously moistened with chloroform. Shake the combined chloroform
     solutions with 5cc of distilled water, seperate the chloroform, and 
     evaporate it carefully to dryness on a water bath [uh, avoid the nasty
     carcinogenic fumes which will also knock you out while your at it too]
     Add to the RESIDUE thus obtained 10cc of .002 N sulfuric acid, heat gently
     until disolved, cool, add 2 drops methyl red T.S., and titrate the excess
     H2SO4 with .02 N NaOH: not less than 7.5cc of the latter should be required.
     

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    #15
    It seems like alot of trouble, I'd rather gravity bong some opium...
     

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    #16
    ^ seems pretty simple to my limited skills, I'd rather vaporise some morphine crystals
     

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    #17
    Yeah, there's a lot of factual errors in it, and it's certainly not simple.

    It's quite difficult, actually.
     

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    #18
    Bluelighter colors's Avatar
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    just posted it for discussion! sry sry. i'm not a chemist and i did not write it. was just throwing in a tek that hadn't been posted yet for comparison.

    tek seems to be backwards compared to this, which is the method you referenced. should it be KOH to 11 first (forming calcium morphenate which remains water soluble while the crap falls out), and then NH4Cl to 9.1 (to precipitate the morphine)?

    you seem to be right about the acetylene. but what about these points...

    Quote Originally Posted by OverDriven
    morphine is more soluble in a basic solution, not acidic.
    not substantially afaik (1-2% with a raised ph8-9 from what i read). what's your source for this? anyways, in the tek the water solution is being heated. morphine is readily soluble in hot water with a neutral ph. the acid (while probably unnecessary) is added to stabilize the morphine at high temps i'm assuming. if you basify to ph12 and heat it, it would decompose, no?

    Quote Originally Posted by OverDriven
    50 grams pods = 500 grams water. One mL of water weighs one gram, you you would want 500 mL of water (half a liter), not 5 liters.
    typo? should be 500g of straw i think, based on how little 50 would render.



    additional question: which would be preferable for smoking ... the salt or the base?
    Last edited by colors; 10-02-2008 at 09:05.
     

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    #19
    ^ i think base would be best for smoking... tried and tested in opium

    For conversion to salt, am i correct that hydrochloride is superior to sulphate?
     

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    #20
    Bluelighter colors's Avatar
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    here's another one for discussion. i don't think it will render pure crystals, but it's intended to give you a clean base powder for smoking.

    ----------

    Bogumil's Smokeable O Tek

    1) Poppy straw extracted into ethanol (60 g in an Erlenmeyer, Ethanol added to make up to 1000ml) at about 70-80C, for 4 hours, then filtered and fresh ethanol added. Same amount of ethanol as before. The filtering and adding of ethanol repeated until the extract was almost clear. Make sure to filter as fine as possible.

    2) Extracts are poured together in a pyrex. A fan placed in front of it. After 30 minutes precipitate forms. Filter - it will be green. Go on evaporating and filtering each time enough precipitate has formed. At a certain point the precipitate will become brownish. At this point stop filtering and let it dry completely. It is very important to do the filtering as the evaporation goes on. Filter through a bigger pore filter first and then through a finer one. (Use the same filters as often as possible to not waste solution that stays in the filters). If this filtering is not done, the solution will be too dirty and no precipitate will form. Just check, when the precipitates get brown, thats when you don't need to filter anymore.

    3) 100ml of 1 - 2% acetic acid are made up: 1.5 ml of 99% acetic acid are added to 98.5 ml dH2O. This acid is poured in a vessel and put aside.

    4) Dried putty is scratched off the pyrex and weighed. Its important to get the weight as correct as possible.

    5) The dried putty is put in a small jar. 5x the amount of putty by weight dH2O is added (for 1.2 g putty this is 6 ml) and 2x the amount of putty by weight of the 2% acetic acid is added (for 1.2 g = 2.4 ml). Altogether in the jar there are: 1 part of dried putty and 7 parts of liquid (5 parts water, 2 parts diluted acetic acid) - and a stirbar. The jar is closed as air tight as possible and it is wrapped in aluminum foil to keep light from it. It is put on a magnetic stirrer. The temperature is set to 50C and the stirbar is turned on. It is stirred for 12 hours. It is very important to not use more than 7, max. 8 times the amount of liquid by weight of the putty. Even this way the solution will appear pretty dilute and it will not have a honey like consistency.

    6) Not everything will dissolve. A good amount of the putty will be floating in the jar. After the 12 hours the putty and solution are poured into a test tube. The tube is closed and shaken as strong as possible for 5 minutes.

    7) The liquid is filtered through a very fine filter paper. The putty that stays in the filter is discarded. The solution is put in a small jar, a stirbar is dropped in and the stirrer turned on. While it is stirred, a NaOH-solution is prepared:

    9) NaOH-solution: 5 ml dH2O are put in a small vessel. NaOH is added until no more dissolves. The solution does not have to be heated for that. Room temperature is ok.

    11) The NaOH solution is added dropwise to the extract in the glass until the pH is 7. When it is 7, the solution is filtered. The liquid is collected and put back in the jar and the stirbar is put in. In the filter there is now narcotine and some papaverine. It is light brown.

    12) The solution doesn't need to be heated for this step. Room-temperature is fine. The pH has to be monitored closely. Although you will very easily see, when the precipitate forms and then know that your almost there, there is still a range, in which the precipitate will be visible, like between 6.7 and 7.2 or between maybe 8.5 and 9.5. The accurate pH makes sure that the desired alkaloids are precipitated in the hugest possible amount. The filtering will go medium slow, depending on the papers. It will be very easy, even with normal filter papers, to filter the precipitate out.

    13) To the solution powdered Na2CO3 is added until the pH is 9.1. At about pH 8.5 a precipitate will start to form. As the sodium carbonate is added further, the precipitate gets more until the liquid is milky. The pH is checked. When it is 9.1, the solution is filtered through a fine filter paper. The solution is kept, put back in the glass and the pH is checked again. If it is not exactly 9.1 it is adjusted and the solution is filtered again. Here too, close monitoring of the pH is nessecary to get the desired alkaloids in the highest amount. The morphine precipitate is very easy to filter out. It forms immediately and the particles are big enough to stay in the filter-paper.

    14) Dry the morphine precipitate. It is suitable for smoking.

    In the above procedure the following things make a cleaner solution:
    - The repeated filtering while the alcoholic extract is evaporated down.
    - The dissolving of the dried putty in the water/acid mix. The water insoluble things stay out of the solution this way and only the really water soluble alkaloids are dissolved. What gets not dissolve in the 12 hours is unwanted dirt. Although we do the regular filtering, still about 1/4 - 1/3 of the putty don't get dissolved in this step. Thats another large amount of dirt, we keep out of our solution.

    Once you get the method down, use bigger amounts of straw. From 60g you get only 1, max. 2 grams of the good powder. 500 to 1000 grams should be a good amount of straw to process.
     

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    #21
    and what about injecting the straw precipitate?


    Also if one has acetic anhydride, simply add the powder to a spoon, add 1ml per gram of morphine, wrap in foil and bake for an hour. Voila Heroin.
     

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    #22
    Chemethist.... no mention of AA please in this thread, it's a purification/no synth thread for harm reduction blah blah......

    i don't want this thread getting closed.

    anyway,

    thank you colors for new information, although it seems a bit more difficult than some other methods that may yield purer extracts. This subject interests me a lot.

    Keep up the good work...

    -SWlM
     

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    #23
    sry for bump, but i got a question.

    which would contain more alkaloids?.......
    1kg of big pods or 1kg of small pods?

    this thread wants more input anyway,
    post or pm, lets get some info...
     

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    #24
    Quote Originally Posted by SWlM
    sry for bump, but i got a question.

    which would contain more alkaloids?.......
    1kg of big pods or 1kg of small pods?

    this thread wants more input anyway,
    post or pm, lets get some info...

    it would be biased on the opium yield of the pod.

    big pod with little yield = more trash than good
    small pod with good yield = more good
    and vice-vs I wold think

    look up which poppies produce the best yield and from what region and go from there.
     

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