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  • AADD Moderators: swilow | Vagabond696

Neo-doves Part II

phase_dancer said:
Perhaps some of you need reminding what this site is all about. It’s not designed to facilitate you obtaining drugs, it’s about protecting users, and an informed choice is the first and most important step.

Right fkin on PD! You ignorant lab rats need to wake up & take in a deep lungful of reality. You should be thankful you have a resource such as bl that ultimately, IS looking after YOUR best interests.
 
You mentioned a prodrug. Now Im more interested.
We all know about combinations, but a prodrug to me means a drug that has no effects until combined with another drug to potentiate it.
 
What about [vendor] selling Philosophers Stone?
Should we contact the powers that be to let them know they are selling a substance that contains psilocin and psilocybin?

[EDIT: Vendor removed. hoptis]
 
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I will point out that I have never purchase anything from ******** nor have I used any of their products.

Would also like to mention that my brother was getting his products synthed in NZ, not China or India, it as much more expensive, but a much cleaner product.
And his prices reflected this.
 
Splatt: A prodrug is generally an inactive compound that it converted to an active through a metabolic pathway. In this case my guess would be that it is an chemical analog to a regulated compound which it is converted to when entered in the body. This would also most likely cause a positive result in drug tests. However I am like you most intrigued. Can't we get the answers soon! =D
 
Maybe im thinking of the term piggyback then.

But that meaning of a prodrug would mean things like GBLK, 14,B and 2C-E etc. are prodrugs seeing as theyve all been known or thought to pass through a few stages before becoming an active drug.
 
Had a rather disturbing experience with the SC2's, 17 hours after my last dose I was still unable to sleep - in fact 15 of those 17 hours were spent in bed trying to sleep before work but it was simply physically impossible. Had a few valiums which chilled me out but didn't help bring on sleep, so given I couldn't afford to call in sick the only option was another line and here I am again, 7am and wired :\
 
^Yeah splatt, you of all people should know about prodrugs... (GBL).

In actuality, i'll say this much, re: packaging

A Friend and I first started ordering these way back when the original thread started. And at first, we had seizures because after the first batch (originally labeled "Neo-Dove" - WARNING: This Product May Sex You Up") They changed it because of some customs seizures to label it an aphrodisiac, at which point they were seized in australia because Aphrodisiacs including Viagra, Cialis and Yohimbine are restricted imports. And after chatting to the head honcho we decided it best to label them as a vitamin supplement to ensure them easily getting thru customs.

Quite simple really. And thats the full story there folks
 
So where's the results already? If the cops know then the rest of us should too.
 
snake venom...

no i dont know.. ill just wait for the report methinks.
Lets just hope it isn't Ethcathinone and BK-PMA or some stupid shit.
 
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I hope you guys know that the contents of neo doves and sub cocas have looked and smelled different about three different times now.. Originally quite consistant with a draino smell, then had black bits and shit and smelled like some kind of herbal product, now looks like sand with pink specks in it.
 
rm2x said:
What about [vendor] selling Philosophers Stone? Should we contact the powers that be to let them know they are selling a substance that contains psilocin and psilocybin?

Why would there be a need? These compounds have been relatively well researched, and are relatively harmless drugs, are they not? It's fairly common knowledge that the products contain psilocybin etc and shop attendants have always explained the active ingredients in their products whenever I’ve asked. However, if there is any product for which the ingredients are purposely hidden or not revealed, I’ll have no hesitation in assisting with facilitating identification of the ingredients and revealing this publicly. Same applies for any and all retail products, whether they contain drugs or not. If I had my way, additive abbreviations such as the letter/numbers currently displayed on retail products would be outlawed and full disclosure required.

I think you're confusing the issue somewhat rm2x. In the question you've raised, you're talking about a known drug, marketed locally, which is technically illegal, but relatively safe, and probably already known to police. In contrast, this issue is about informing users and authorities on a range of previously unheard of or little known substances, some of which may, or may not be dangerous to your health. I could also argue that in light of what we know of police surveillance of this site, that you may have unwittingly brought attention to this local product through your above question.

Still, unlike the Neorg range, you can't tell me that police/ forensics don't already have an idea of what's in some of the locally available 'herbal' products. With most of these products - particularly in the example you've used - it would take little to identify the active ingredients. This is because most are likely to be known compounds, and as such, spectral data is available to aid with identification. That's contrary to the Neorg range, where most of these compounds are novel. As such, unless pure samples of suspected compounds can be sourced, often the spectral data required to verify results is all but impossible to obtain.

You might be interested in hearing that others, not based in Australia, intend to reveal the contents of Spice Gold if and when it can be deduced. If it is an analogue of THC, once it's known and stated on public boards, it will likely be specifically scheduled. Still, like these products, if users aren't informed of the actives, people here and elsewhere will endeavour to find out what these substances are.

Also think about drug research as conducted by NDARC and other such institutions. What do you think happens when users describe experiences with new or previously unheard of substances? While personal details aren't passed on, authorities are often informed if info on new drugs or user trends is deemed important enough. There's nothing new here. It's the way our research organisations and health, social and legal departments interact.

But that meaning of a prodrug would mean things like GBLK, 14,B and 2C-E etc. are prodrugs seeing as theyve all been known or thought to pass through a few stages before becoming an active drug.

A pro-drug is anything that has no structure activity relationship when outside the body, but through some metabolic or body action is transformed into an active drug in vivo. In this case, the substance in question is thought to be converted to an active (illicit) substance through acid hydrolysis in the stomach.

From what I've been told, this prodrug approach is currently being exploited in particular body building products available online, with more than one unaware consumer registering positive for a PED. These potentially life changing outcomes came from taking an off the shelf product which had no mention of any pro-drug ingredient.

Would also like to mention that my brother was getting his products synthed in NZ, not China or India, it as much more expensive, but a much cleaner product.

That is commendable, considering the retail product would likely be more expensive and/or the profits less than for a competing imported product. But without regulations governing compulsory QC, I'd be surprised if all party pill manufacturers would sacrifice market share/profits in this way. I could be wrong though; some kiwis I've known are quite conscientious :)

So where's the results already? If the cops know then the rest of us should too.

Hold your horses. I've already said that once the survey target is reached the info will be presented here along with that which is known about the effects etc of these compounds. That is, if I ever get the time to prepare it :\
 
As ever PD, you are a voice of reason, frequently in a wilderness of muppets. Let's be clear here- the role of the sensible medical practitioner or scientist is to keep people safe from their choices. I don't believe that it is to necessarily stop people from using drugs, as long as they are fully informed and understand the consequences. But it is absolutely NOT to act as some sort of facilitator for a potentially dangerous behaviour...
If we told you that the compound was 'turtlecox', would you know what that meant? Alot of people appear more than happy to have used it without knowing...

There is no point in releasing a 'name' until we have some information that might be of use to you in keeping you safe. I don't care who you are, you don't have the respect that the extended chemistry community (both licit and clandestine) has for Phase Dancer, and if I had to bet the life of a future patient (ie you!) on knowledge about a product, gleaned from the far reaches of the world, I'd put the house on PD...
So relax already. It's like listening to 6 year olds on Christmas Eve. If you haven't done the survey, give it a crack. Of course the results will be openly available- Bluelight is openly available. And if it makes you sleep easier at night, the results will only be distributed to health professionals... Fortunately I got timed out before my original rant from last night let me finish!
 
drplatypus said:
.... And if it makes you sleep easier at night, the results will only be distributed to health professionals... Fortunately I got timed out before my original rant from last night let me finish!

Thank you Dr, that's all I wanted to hear. And yes, it does let me sleep easier.

If the authorities read this site then good on them, it's just another indication that they're failing miserably in their duty of care and require a site run by users for information.

Sadly, the end result will be another victory for drug enforcement and the overwhelming message that we all want a cheap safe source of entertainment that isn't alchohol will be lost. The biggest dangers of dealing with illegals is the requirement to interact with criminal elements, the highly inflated prices, the lack of accountability, the lack of accurate consumer information, sloppy manufacture, and the silliness of being busted.

Anyone else think it rather ironic that now they've stopped BZP from NZ (as if that makes a difference) that they start publishing articles on how they need an alternative to ice? What's the bet NZ starts having an ice problem again once they ban party pills?

Look forward to the results. And thanks for your efforts (and PD's and anyone else involved).
 
drplatypus said:
Let's be clear here- the role of the sensible medical practitioner or scientist is to keep people safe from their choices....

I know you clarify this statement but, no, the role of a sensible medical practitioner is to provide me, and others, with the information I need to make safe choices. I dislike that word "keep", awfully close to "enforce".
 
After getting so off track, I would like to try and regain some focus, both in content and specificity (hopefully within the parameters of the guidelines). So, three quick points:

1) I realise this might be unanswerable at this time, or purely speculative, but is it possible that the substances in the neo product could have enzyme induction or inhibition properties based on their similarities to other compounds (e.g., CYP3A4)? Such information would have possible harm reduction implications pertaining to possible contraindications and as Splatt has mentioned, could influence the reason for a participant in the survey endorsing the hospital admission items (e.g., potentially dangerous interactions)

2) With regard to the symptoms of the substances, I wonder whether there could be some confusion regarding those that are acute and those that are only associated with more chronic use. For example, anecdotal evidence suggests that the SC leads to hallucinations only after bingeing, that appear to be similar to the over stimulation of dopamine pathways seen in amphetamine psychosis, but not when used in small and infrequent sessions. Perhaps in reporting the symptoms it would have been useful to consider dosage, frequency, etc.

3) The way I see it, at this point nothing has changed. Since the report has not been released, we don’t know what substances are contained in the capsules, other than knowing that they might be considered illegal in some states given the analogue laws. The only way in which there would be any change is if the company has been ‘blacklisted’ by customs, and hence, all importations would be checked and perhaps confiscated (and perhaps criminal charges would be applied). But that is only if customs et al. have the ability to confirm the nature of the compounds. I am not very knowledgeable on the logistics of chemical analysis, but given the time and effort it has taken a team of scientists, it would seem that it is going to take such authorities some time to gather the technological specificity to conduct such confirmation (i.e., the current swift analysis that is conducted on suspect packages is relatively rudimentary, akin to a saliva test), and to further determine the legality of these substances. Given the changes we are witnessing, I wonder whether customs will be considering applying more advanced technologies to detect illicit/suspect substances?
 
This was posted in the other thread but was intended for here so copying...

drplatypus said:
To try to get back on thread, thanks to all who have completed the survey- I want to release the Chemistry with Phase Dancer's commentary ASAP, so anyone's still undecided please please PLEASE give it a crack- I promise you, the results will surprise you! PM me with any queries...

NEORGANICS PRODUCT SURVEY
 
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Well, since I don't know whats in them and they havent killed me yet...

I took the plunge and had the neo doves and SC's snorted on the comedown of MDFA+MDMA along with K. The depth perception is amazing. Everything is so 2D but you can pinpoint exactly wherte something is, how far away something is.. muich better than our 3D. You can make anything turn into anything, witrh full open eye visual control, just by not blinking for minutes....


ll be seeking this in pure form when I find out what exaxtly they are. And experimenting with one chemical at a time, not the combinations in the capsules. They are really shit for snorting.

I'd have to say ND's kick the shit out of SC's. But SC's have their place for shit-talking speed-head mood...
 
As p_d stated:
Perhaps some of you need reminding what this site is all about. It’s not designed to facilitate you obtaining drugs, it’s about protecting users, and an informed choice is the first and most important step.

That actually made me realise exactly how stupid I was being, I'm sorry, I was acting on impulse, which is quite rare for me these days.

I didn't mean to sound so offensive, to be perfectly honest I got paranoid, for no real reason.

I won't do this again, and I do apologise for firing off so quickly, as you can see by my older posts that I normally am much more rational :|

So P-D and Dr Platypus, I am sorry, I'll keep out of this thread from now on and think before I post.
Also sorry to Hoptis for posting the vendors name, that was also out of line and I had no right to do that.
 
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