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  • AADD Moderators: swilow | Vagabond696

Neo-doves Part II

why Canada?
Bribes?
Yeah whats next no legal high worth trying other than alcohol and smokes?
Governments just need unrecognized eceptacnce of some of the profits and its ok.
What should all our drugs come through organized crime?

whats happening with London underground?
 
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Good stuff.

You state
Reformulation of the determined compounds i.e. altered ratios of active compounds.
Click to expand...

But I see no type of quantitative data to indicate current ratios...or more importantly actual amounts of each compound.

Do you know if any type of quantitative analysis was done? Or am I just not seeing it?
 
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tadfish said:
why Canada?
Bribes?
Yeah whats next no legal high worth trying other than alcohol and smokes?
Governments just need unrecognized eceptacnce of some of the profits and its ok.
What should all our drugs come through organized crime?

whats happening with London underground?
Click to expand...

LU recently had some pills analysed (cops), and they found a weird-ass pipradol analogue, not desoxy- but more arcane. It's also FUCKING IDIOTIC for them to be selling to the US, whatever the disclaimers about 'plant food.' Surprised the DEA hasn't jumped them yet. 'Those who fuck with the Eagle had best learn to fly.'
 
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I don't understand.
If identification using GC/MSD can only be considered tentative, how can conclusions then be validated?
If reference standards are not available, how can you 100% positively identify the compounds?
Click to expand...

You can't and I thought I made that quite clear. I said

Interpretation of results from the above mentioned procedures has been independently assessed and conclusions validated
Click to expand...

Validated: dictionary definition as used in this context: corroborated, endorsed, confirmed etc

While never a guarantee, I'm confident of the analysts' ability and believe that by noting both expected retention times for various solvent matrixes/ columns with HPLC, and mass fragment data from GC/MS and LC/MS compared with data on mass spectral libraries, the results for 3 of the 4 previously un-encountered chems should be all but conclusive. While another substance with similar retention times and fragments of mass/charge could theoretically be mistaken for one of the chemicals, this is less likely if 2 different forms of chromatography were used and both these results when compared to spectral databases pointed to a single compound. It may not be 100%, but it will normally be as close as you can get without confirmation using certified pure substances.


The one compound where structure was more difficult to elucidate from these methods was confirmed using NMR. I've proven to be reasonably good with NMR, and believe I'd be able to distinguish a 4-methyl peak, without need for employing 2DNMR. As said, the conclusions were agreed with by an independent source who reviewed the data, probably a University lecturer from where the NMR was done.
 
Do you know if any type of quantitative analysis was done? Or am I just not seeing it?
Click to expand...

Quantitative assessment can be deduced from peaks seen from GC or LC data, but in order to accurately determine how many milligrams of each is present, pure samples are required as references ( peak of the known quantity of the pure chemical is measured against the peak of the sample). However, without pure samples, it's usually possible to determine the ratios of the compounds in a mixture. Whether it was done or not I've yet to find out.
 
Having made some inquiries this morning:
-confirmation was made by a third party academic, at who's university the NMR study was completed. It was waiting for this confirmation that took the longest time in the release of these products, but it was important for us to ensure that Bluelight had accurate, not just fast information. It's stuff you're putting in your body, after all!
-pure references are currently being acquired where possible, and manufactured where necessary, to get some quant results. They'll come later.

As ever, in short, basically what p_d says...
 
PS I'll get the survey results to P_d today, and techy that he is, he can work out how to incorporate them into the overall findings.
 
Are mine that I ordered 10 days ago possibly going to get stopped by customs now? Or will nothing have changed.. yet.
 
Is this NMR data posted anywhere on line?

Does anyone know if they did carbon, proton, or both or what?
 
jenkem said:
Are mine that I ordered 10 days ago possibly going to get stopped by customs now? Or will nothing have changed.. yet.
Click to expand...

No-one can answer that question authoritatively, but it will PROBABLY take a little time for this to filter through to law enforcement. Depending on where you are, they may or may not be illegal...
 
jenkem, probably not.

its not really in their interests atm like stopping the more popular drugs.. and fruit and shit.

theyll probably open it, see the bottle label and say whatever..
 
My impression is that there'll be almost no interest in this to start with- to get stuck into this politically runs the risk of having to admit that there is no way of keeping up with newer products as they emerge onto the market, with the current regime as it is. If someone overdoses/some kid is found with it etc, and the press get hold of it- the honeymoon is over. It's not often mentioned, but another reason to moderate drug use is that overdoses just give prohibitionists excuses to go hard...
 
phase dancer and drplatypus and to everyone else who collaborated with you, thank you! :) you've done a great service for all of us.

[EDIT: Removed unnecessary content. Lil Angel15]
 
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Outstanding work P_D! Thank you for all the time and effort you put in to get these results out into the open. Very interesting stuff indeed! No wonder the SC's feel so strong since they are more potent than methamphetamine after all!

I'm so glad the first release of this information was on BL as well! Just goes to show how dedicated to harm minimisation the brains of this site really are. I intend to spread this information as wide as I can, some of these unknown compounds sound pretty nasty..
 
Firstly, a HUGE thankyou to p_d and drplatypus for putting so much time, effort and patience into this project. You efforts are truly appreciated by those on the board that have an interest in harm minimisation.

Now - I have a limited amount of chemical knowledge, so what do these results mean for a user who has used one or two pills every now and then recreationally. I'm particularly worried about the findings of (permanent??) DA depletion. Would people recommend sticking away from this range entirely, or are there other ways to minimise harms as with using other drugs, e.g. only using once every few months, not redosing, not mixing etc...
 
Sorry for showing my ignorance of chemistry here but if Phthalimidopropiophenone is a prodrug that the stomach acid may turn into an illicit drug what exactly is that drug?

I take it that it is some sort of cathinone?
 
Personally I would just say stay away from them - although I admit I'm a hypocrite.

If its a methamphetamine analogue I don't imagine the police are going to go easy on you, I can already imagine the headlines "Drug users importing designer super ice".
 
Thanks for all the hard work that went into this.

That chemical list is quite different from the companies product page

"ingredients : Vitamin C,Magnesium,Creatine.,Alpha Lipoic Acid ,Lycopene, Beta Carotene,Amino acids blend"
 
Is it though? That ingrediants list is fairly unspecific... I'm no chemist, but Amino acid blend alone could mean many things.

Maybe that was your point, though. :p
 
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