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help with a methadone detox?

oxyaddict05

Bluelighter
Joined
Jun 24, 2007
Messages
168
So I have been using anywhere from 80 to 240mg of oxycodone 5 out of 7 days for the past 2 months or so. I am planning on getting clean and have access to a very large supply of 5mg methadone pills. I have never used methadone either to get high, or to get clean, so I am completely clueless. However, after searching the forum/web, I am aware of methadones basic properties (ie, long half-life)

I would like to detox off the oxy using a combination of methadone and xanax. I have some exams coming up this coming week, (college student), so I would like to use just the right amount of methadone so that I don't really get high, and that I am feeling well enough to be a productive student. So, here are my questions:

1. Do I need to take it every day? Or is every other day fine? (example: one larger dose every other day, or 2 smaller doses every day)

2. What dose should I start out with?

3. How should I taper it. How long should the taper be? I don't mind a little pain after my midterms are done (5 days from now) but until then, I can't afford to be dope sick.

I think that covers everything. I may have left out an important element but we'll see. And thanks to everyone who took the time out of their day to help a stranger!%) very cool...
 
As I've stated in some other posts tonight, it seems we learn something new about Methadone fairly often considering its advanced age in the narcotic community. Dose conversion from any narcotic opioid to Methadone is a difficult exercise in that Methadone appears to have very interesting properties that seem to indicate it has effects on its own potency, and it can effectively be substituted for many other opioids at much lower doses than first thought was the case. All of that is complicated by Methadone's lengthy (and highly variable from person to person) half-life.

First, I'll say that oral/insufflated ingestion of 80-240mg oxycodone/day with at least two "clean" days per week is a relatively small habit. Small on what scale? Small enough to be concerned that you aren't substituting a worse habit in an effort to detox from the original habit.

In any circumstances other than the ones you state here, e.g. impending circumstance in which one needs to perform at one's intellectual and/or physical best, I would seriously recommend that you attempt a cold-turkey kick. The xanax would help you a lot in such an endeavor, along with some OTC meds and supplements. But we won't go down that path since it's not feasible to be in the height of an agonizing narcotic withdrawal if you want to be anything more than useless in any sort of professional or student capacity. However, I will make one final suggestion along these lines -- you might consider simply continuing your Oxy habit as minimally as possible until you get through your exams, and then quit cold-turkey when you have 2 weeks or so to recover fully. If it's possible, I would give it serious consideration.

The next best solution in your situation would be a short term of Suboxone/Subutex (buprenorphine). In case you don't know, buprenorphine is a narcotic similar to both Oxy and Methadone, but with various properties that make tapering and eventual cessation of the medication less agonizing. Unfortunately, you would have to find a Suboxone doctor on a student budget/insurance plan in a limited amount of time, and get started on treatment, all the while (I assume) you would probably like to get some studying in. Understandable. However, if Suboxone is available to you, I recommend it, and like the above plan, I could offer a plan to get you wherever you wanted to be with appropriate supplemental meds/supplements and advice.

However, since you asked, I'll answer: my last choice in this situation would be Methadone due entirely to the potential danger of ending up with a habit worse than the one you have now, with a higher tolerance to go along with it (which naturally means it's more expensive daily). But since it's what you seem to have available, here goes:

Methadone has a very lengthy half-life compared to the opioids you're taking now, or indeed many others. When one is taking Methadone daily, it takes 5 days for the full effects of his daily dose to be felt/appreciated, since some fraction of day 1's dose is still psychoactive inside your brain/body at the end of day 5. What does that mean? Well, it means that unless you plan to do what I'd be worried about above and end up with a bigger habit than the one you started with, you can't expect to feel 100% good on day 1 or day 2, or possibly even day 3, since the methadone is "building up" in your system during that time. What you don't want to do is continue taking oxy for that period, or you will simply lengthen the time it takes to stabilize on a dose, and you want that dose to be as small as possible to reduce the primary danger I've probably overstated by now.

For your habit I'd probably start at 5mg/day and see how you feel on the third day. If you are feeling any physical pain, or intense discomfort with respect to your internal temperature (e.g. cold/hot flashes, goosebumps, all when the external temperature has not changed at all) on the third day, I would increase your dose to 7.5mg. If you're still not 100% by day 5, go ahead and increase to 10mg, but don't go any higher than 10mg/day unless you're actually taking more than 240mg oxy/day.

Xanax won't really be necessary with Methadone -- Methadone is a full agonist opioid, so after your build-up period, and if you're on the proper dose, while you won't be "high" or euphoric, you definitely won't feel even a hint of withdrawal or the negative psychological symptoms that accompany it, e.g. dysphoria, lack of motivation (beyond normal laziness ;) ), etc. If you have trouble sleeping the first night because you haven't built-up the Methadone yet, go ahead and take 0.5-1.5mg Xanax or whatever is a lowish sedative dose for you so you can get a few hours of sleep, but you should be sleeping if not 12 hours of lazy comfortable sleep, then at least 6-8 hours by the second night.

Once your exams are over, I would immediately attempt a taper down as follows: If you're on 10mg/day, taper to 7.5mg/day. If you're on 7.5mg/day, taper to 5mg/day. If you're on 5mg/day, taper to 4mg/day. Hold the tapered dose for a full week (again, it takes a long time for the full effects of the lower dose to be felt, since the day you taper, the previous 5 days' respective fractions of the higher dose will still be psychoactive) and see how you feel. If you're in withdrawal you can't handle, increase 1mg every 2 days til you're comfortable, hold for a week, and start tapering down 1mg/week. If you feel okay, repeat the taper with the same rules -- if you're above 5mg, take off another 2.5mg; if you're at 5mg or less, take off 1mg. Wait a week. Rinse, repeat. This should get you down to the 2-3mg level.

When you get down to 2-3mg, the next taper may have you pretty uncomfortable, because your brain is going to have to start making up the difference in endorphins that it hasn't had to produce since your habit got its legs. In that case, increase 0.5mg and wait to be 100% comfortable again before restarting your taper. The idea is not to increase to the point where you're 100% comfortable immediately -- you want to split the difference; get the brain making those endorphins again, but not be in so much agony you can't sleep, or, worse, you go out and score and have to start over.

If the above DOES happen at the 2-3mg mark, slow down your taper -- 1mg every two weeks instead of every week. Since the plan only allows you to increase half of what you took away for comfort's sake, you have nowhere to go but down, and you'll eventually be clean.

However, the last few mg of any Methadone taper are the absolute worst, and you have to play them by ear and listen to your body. Maybe you want to start tapering 0.5mg every 2 weeks for the last 1mg. Maybe when you get down to a 0mg day you want to start taking 0.5mg every other day for 2 weeks, then maybe every 3 days until you feel like you can stop. You have to play it by ear.

However, I'm banking on the fact that you won't have been on Methadone very long at all when you start your taper, so you will be able to get away with a lot more than, say, me -- I have been taking 110mg Methadone/day for over a year now. I could probably taper relatively quickly (say maybe 5-8mg/week) down to the 30-45mg mark, but after that it would get exponentially harder and I'd have to slow way down; when I got down to the last 15mg, I might easily down to 1mg/month, and the last 10mg might take me a full year. Since your dose will be much lower and your total duration will be much shorter, you shouldn't fall into that necessity, but a word to the wise, you'll be making the transition to that boat if you increase your dose past 10mg/day or if you stay there for more than a week or two at the outside.

Xanax and other benzos are great for the final portion of the taper if you're like me and the WORST part about the taper withdrawal is the insomnia -- just don't trade an opioid habit for a benzo habit; benzo withdrawal can be fatal. I wouldn't use benzos to sleep more than two nights in a row, with optional lower doses to relax if anxiety is an issue; if you're taking some dose of a benzo every day for 3-4 days though you're probably tapering too fast and you should up your methadone a bit in order to lay off the benzos.

If you have intestinal cramps/diarrhea you should take Immodium -- it's a very powerful full agonist opioid on the same level as Fentanyl, but it can't cross the blood-brain barrier, so it won't affect your withdrawal. What it will do, though, is bind to the opioid receptors in your intestines, which gives you a world of help when it comes to the GI withdrawal symptoms.

Warm baths help with pain/anxiety but again if you're suffering either of those to the point of agony you're tapering too fast.

Take a multivitamin daily!!!! Will your withdrawal be much worse or much longer without it? No, but when you're withdrawing, doesn't every bit of comfort and every extra second count? Your brain is going to be manufacturing endorphins in quantities it hasn't needed to since the first dose of your habit. The other physical symptoms are going to be taxing the hell out of your body. You're not going to feel like eating, so at least take a multivitamin to take care of the purely physical metabolic needs that you will have -- this is a very traumatic event for your body and especially your neurochemistry, so give it as much of a break as you can.

I've found that Gabapentin (Neurontin) really helps with certain withdrawal symptoms. It's an unscheduled (non-narcotic, non-addictive) medication sometimes prescribed for nerve pain or seizures. You need a script for it, but if you have a sympathetic doc that knows what you're going through he'll write it no sweat.

Similarly, Clonidine, a blood pressure medication, happens to relieve quite a majority of withdrawal symptoms from anxiety to insomnia to cramps -- you definitely won't feel 100%, but it definitely helps. It's also Rx only, but again it's non-narcotic, uncontrolled, and non-addictive, so any sympathetic doc will write for it no problem.

I seriously doubt you'll need really anything but the Methadone, while you're on the Methadone, and you'll only start needing the other stuff when you get below a certain level of your taper.

If your goal is to get through exams with the methadone and start using again, I'd still recommend tapering with the methadone as low as you can go and waiting at least 36-48 hours between your last dose of methadone and your first dose of recreational opioid -- the methadone you'll be using for exams is going to raise your tolerance, no two ways about that, so you'll want to do everything you can to lower it as much as possible before you get back in the habit, so to speak.

Good luck; all the best.
 
Pretty much agree with everything that guy stated already but I will add:

A 5mg starting dose is quite low for even maintenance of your current habit, but still it'd be in your best interest to start there. If it works, great. Kicking the methadone will be that much easier in the end...

Yeah, hold off on the xanax. You won't need it, not to mention a potentially dangerous combo, save it for when you have to quit the 'dones...
 
First, trying to detox from one opiate/opioid while using another is not only counterproductive but dangerous to boot, especially when one has the very long half life that methadone does. Credit to Diacetyl for noting this correctly.

Secondly, then combining Benzos with the 2 opiates/opioids is just ratcheting up your chances for a fatal overdose.

Diacetyl: The lower doses you talk about relate to analgesia, not psychoactive benefits."Recommedning Cold Turkey." Not neccessarily. I would offer that the poster, if the need isthere, utilise another substance BUT while under a medical professional's care.

"First day's dosage is still psychoactive within the body on day 5." No offence but that is not true. You might be confusing "Optimum Dosing/Plateau Stage" with the intitial period. At Optimum Dosing, which occurs from between 10 and 14 days AFTER intial dosage, there WILL BE a resevoir system within plasma but that is not "psychoactive." It is merely concerning tolerance and ultimate evacuation, this is why it takes so long to detox from it.

"For your habit." While I am usually the first one to offer "better safe than sorry," AMA guidelines specifiy an initial dosage of 20 to 30 mgs. in terms of Detox or Maintenance. The reason it is so low is because they work under the assumption that all habits are minimal so as to avoid inadvertantly causing an overdosage. From the baselinf of 20 to 30 mgs., they are then able to adjust dosages in 10 mg. increments every 24 hours.

Taking 5 mg. of methadone is not going to mean anything one way or another in the end.

I would recommend the poster seek medical advice (from other than the internet) , but in lieu of this I would suggest that they follow AMA guidelines and initially dose at 20 mgs. From there they can decide just how to adjust the dosage. I am sorry but advising someone to adjust their dosage in 2.5 mg increments is non-sensical. It will create a possible buildup that is much more difficult to manage in terms of calculating exact dosages (due to the long half life), plus leave the poster in unneccessary distress and pain.

You are correct that Benzos are NOT neccessary.

I would not recommend a tapering schedualing because this issue is highly subjective. Noone's physiology or mental state is the same as any other peron's. Simply follow the guidelines, 20 initially, AFTER 24 hours, either adjust up or down by 10, and then ALWAYS wait 24 hours between either incremental adjustments OR taking your correct dosage.

"Diacety's personal tapering." To illustrate just how subjective this is, I was on between 160 and 220 for 17 years. I went Cold Turkey on July 20th from 160 and by 8.5 days all physcial symptoms were gone.

At other times in my life I was dropped 10 mgs. every 3 days until I hit 40 and then 5 every 3 days until 10 mgs and then cessation. A person will not feel it until they hit that wall at is usually at 50 mgs. or less and then only when they are in Optimum Dosage.

A person like the poster would not face any such hurdles if they begin their detox from Day 1 (on methadone). In other words, sate their physical symptoms and from day one adjust until they are comfortable. Wait 3 days and then drop 10 until 0.

"Immodium." : Loperamide is a good idea, but does not work for most people, aside from perhaps a slight placebo effect. It will however keep that diarreah at bay.

I simply keep caloric intake at a minimum and instead hydrate myself with electrolyte solutions,etc. so as to avoid weakening myself too much. Anyway, most people do not even think of food for a couple of days. Make sure you remain hydrated.

"Multivitamins." Also good.

"Gabapentin." Terrible idea. The substance also holds abuse potential and one does not need SSRI issues while in acute W/D.

"Methadone is a worse habit than oxy..." In what way? The detox is longer but much, much more mild so that overall I would say oxycodone withdrawal is much harder.

(Edited for spelling and to adjust the space between the second to last and last paragraph)
 
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i reckon u will need more than 5mg of methadone a day if u dont wanna feel any withdrawal effects from your dose of oxys. Plus its very true about it building up over 5 days, if u ease all the pain on day 1, u r probably gonna find yaself on a much bigger dose by day 5.

everyone is different, I needed heaps, to get off it i did it slow and steady and felt basically zero withdrawal from 140mg - 0 over 6 months plus during that time my mental addiction to opiates also subsided.
 
wow thanks so much for all the info!! I am going to try to take 30mg today, and 30 mg tomorrow, and if i feel shity on day 3, im gonna up it to 40mg, how does that sound? once I take my exam on tuesday, I don't mind dropping to like 10mg and feel some withdrawal. But do you guys think 30mg day 1, 30mg day 2, 40mg day 3, 40mg day 4, , (exam) then drop it from there?
 
or wait, maybe I should start at 20mg instead. When you say to adjust the dose by 10mg, you mean to take 30mg the next day? ( add 10mg to the 20mg) and not 10?


After re-reading the first response, I am kinda frightened. I know that done is some SERIOUS shit, but I thought that even taking 40mg a day for 5 days is not that big a deal? Also, as stated, done builds up in the body, so is it really safe to start at 20-30mg and increase to 30-40mg the next day?


So after 4 day and my exam, i should lower my dose by 10mg every 3 days until zero? I shouldn't go any faster?

SO basically, I am looking at a ten day detox if I use the following dosages a day:
20mg, 30mg, 30mg, 30mg, 20mg, 20mg, 20mg, 10mg, 10mg, 10mg, ZERO

how does that look?
 
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I would still start with 30mg personally, though it isn't for me to recommend that for someone else. Try 20mg and go from there.

That detox looks fast, my guess is that you will be in some pain, especially at the end.

GL
 
cool, just popped 30mg, I'm going to try and keep at at 30mg a day, maybe go to 35mg


I don't mind some pain at the end when my exam is done. Thats what the xanax is for =)
 
^Yeh wasn't it? I am so impressed with the help some people give on this forum. Maybe some day I'll know that much and can do the same lol
 
yep. i was coming up here to say my piece but there was nothing to add, really :)
 
I am just worried about the different tapers he and rachamim posted. He said to go down 1mg at a time, while Rachamin said 10mg every 3 days. I figure the later is more realistic for my case as I will not be on methadone for very long.

SomeKindaLove: thats a cool/interesting picture you got by your name. looks almost like a baby with that stoge
 
Personally, I would try to go with 2.5mg every other day, maybe 5mg every other day if you can handle it, but it all varies ... do whatever's comfortable ... as long as you're going down on the dose, you're doing well :) and what's the old saying? two junkies ,three opinions?

And yes, it's a baby smokin' a cig. I yoinked it off some anti-smoking web site, I can't remember which. Kind of has a late-90's early-internet feeling too it ... who else remembers the dancing baby?
 
wow 5 mg every other day, that extends my detox to 14 days. Now I am not going to experience the crazy methadone withdrawals from only being on it this long right?
 
hopefully not, that's the point of the taper :) will it be fun? nah. but not like you read about. going cold turkey off methadone is fucking ridiculous, but it's actually pretty amenable to tapering down as long as you have the willpower, i.e., a sincere desire to change, which it sounds like you do.

don't try to rush this. rushing your detox can put you in just as bad a place as you are now, or worse. of course, delaying it too long will just continue to build your tolerance & addiction. it's all a balancing act, and there are no hard and fast rules. as long as your dosage is going down, you are succeeding in tapering.
 
Listen, I noted that "tapering" is a highly subjective subject. What an intelligent person might do is see how they feel after their first day of decreasing and adjust from that baseline.

A person who has reached Optimum Dosing will not feel physical effect for at least days and often none at all until they hit that wall at 50 or lower.

In your case, you are on oxyocdone, on a more than minimal dosgage. I would dose at the initial baseline. then adjust up or down as the case may be after 24 hours. ALWAYS ALLOW 24 HOURS BETWEEN SUBSEQENT DOSAGES.

If you felt fine on your initial dosage, you should REALLY consider decresing on the second day as it will make it all the easier as you come off of it.

Your question on experiencing methadone W/D. If you use fore more than a minimum of 3 days, 7 at most, you WILL have a habit with methadone but it would be a very minimal habit.

If you are using methadone , and you really shoud consider not using any opaite/opioid because if detox is your short term goal you are kind of defeating the purpose, you shoul really use it for less than 5 days. You find your comfort zone and then rapidly drop from there so as to counteract any developing physical habit with methadone.

"Cold Turkey off of methadone." Having just done it in July I can say it is nowhere near as terrible as some might believe it to be. However, if the poster uses it as described he/she will not have that problem since any habituation would have been extremely minimal.
 
Alright, I took 30mg tonight, and if I feel okay by the next time I dose, I will drop it to 25mg. Thanks again Rachamim.

The main reason why I am asking and not just finding out for myself, is that I have to buy all the methadone either tonight or tomorrow. After that, I am stuck with what I have. So I want to have the right amount yah know?

I think the 30mg may have been too much. Right now, 90 min after dosing, I actually feel pretty good. I am by no means high, but I do have a slight warm buzz going(my last dose of oxy was 240mg about 28 hours ago)
 
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Glad to hear it is working for you. ust keep being careful and pay attention to your increments and periods of time between them. Good luck.
 
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