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The "new" pseudoephedrine (Phenylephrine)

It definitely reacts with all amines.
If I remember, Eleusis had a synth that went from the MD-2-OH to the secondary amine as well...
Doubt it would react with the phenol though
 
The Poos synthesis requires a 1, 2 *primary* aminoalcohol. The cyanogen bromide forms a mono alkyl cyanamide with spontaneously cyclizes to form a 2 amino oxazoline. I'm pretty sure without a primary amine the cyclization will not occur.

Cyanogen Bromide will dealkylate tertiary amines - von Braun reaction. With a secondary amine like this cyanogen bromide would form a dialkyl cyanamide.

All in all a pretty uninteresting compound.
 
As for guaranteeing the lack of recreational value of adrenaline... I grew up in a coupon-cutting family, and so rather than buying Epipens for my anaphylaxis via specific plant proteins, I was given (by age 9-10) a syringe and a vial of 1 mg/ml epinephrine to draw up...

Well I gave, after urging them STRONGLY not to, two friends who were IV ketamine addicts (approx 12 or less times a day, one of which was also a user of just about anything he could get his hands on). One of them pushed down the plunger, got this look of geeked-out deer and headlights on his face and said 'Don't do it!' to his then-girlfriend. She responded by saying 'Well, you're not dead' and proceeded to insert the 29-guage terumo into her vein. As I'm sure you can imagine, they both agreed that some things were never popular for a reason. Like pocket-protectors among jocks!
 
retired_chemist said:
The Poos synthesis requires a 1, 2 *primary* aminoalcohol. The cyanogen bromide forms a mono alkyl cyanamide with spontaneously cyclizes to form a 2 amino oxazoline. I'm pretty sure without a primary amine the cyclization will not occur.

Cyanogen Bromide will dealkylate tertiary amines - von Braun reaction. With a secondary amine like this cyanogen bromide would form a dialkyl cyanamide.

All in all a pretty uninteresting compound.
Click to expand...

Apologies for being slow earlier now I get it:

under the poos reaction conditions CN-Br should still react to form the isomeric oxazolidine the double bond shifted to the exocyclic nitrogen. a 5 phenyl oxazolidin-2-ylamine.
I am pretty sure that as it is isosteric these woud be active.

Encouraging meth cooks to use CNBr could solve several problems simultaneously. :)
V
 
vecktor said:
Encouraging meth cooks to use CNBr could solve several problems simultaneously. :)
V
Click to expand...

Any information on the pulmonary hypertension of this class? I suggested the 3 methoxy simply because F&B & some people mentioned (I think...) that a 3 methoxy is similar to the methylenedioxy ring in it's action thus making (possibly) an MDMA type drug.
Pulmonary hypertension is a serious, serious condition. That U4EUH farm in the US showed all 3 people involved to have it quite badly.
 
ya i noticed this, not only is it useless as any kind of precursor, it dont even work as a decent decongestant!
 
CNBr does make the hazards of traces of PH3 and HI fumes look fairly trivial...
 
fasteddie said:
CNBr does make the hazards of traces of PH3 and HI fumes look fairly trivial...
Click to expand...

Well, it's BP is 61.4C so, that makes it a BIT less nasty than, say, phosphine, but it's very toxic. I guess anyone unqualified & unprepared to make methamphetamine would be similarly stupid over this, if the money were right. I mean, don't they always?
 
vecktor said:
well I think we all agree with the DEA and various governements phenylephrine is thoroughly useless, as a precursor, and perhaps as a decongenstant too. all this will do is cause the mexicans to make an even higher proportion of the meth consumed in the US, the mexicans will always have proper decongestants. this is not good for the US balance of payments situation!
Click to expand...
I saw a PBS special a while back and they were talking about the production of pseudoephedrine and saying only a handful of large-scale labs could produce it. The DEA agent on the show clamed the DEA and the U.S had the power to stop all production of it in major labs like that, but that it the pharmaceutical companies were slowing it down.
So some people think that in the near future there will be no more pseudoephedrine production and no more meth.
The link to the PBS show: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/meth/view/
 
I suppose the next step is to regulate styrene sales.

Without veering into verboten synthesis chat, that's the start of the next clandestine route, once pseudo becomes prescription only.
 
There's nothing hard about producing pseudoephedrine. In the future it might be necessary to grow Ephedra sinica commercially for the high concentration of ephedrine and psuedoephedrine useful as a precursor.
 
there will always be a market and need for ephedrine and pseudo for colds and fat burning. It will never go away.

styrene, yep, that would work. It's just not otc and not really feasible to decompose plastics for it

i think the p2p route will return, i remember people on the hive raving about the 80's meth (racemic) that was so much better than the d- that is produced from pseudo.

besides, whats sexier than the image of a group of hells angels tossing a 55 gallon drum full of p2p, methylamine and reducing agent of choice into a river and hoping it doesn't explode?

the ensuing explosion :D
 
^Well, European speed is plain amphetamine from P2P, so it must still be about.
 
kidamnesiac said:
styrene, yep, that would work. It's just not otc and not really feasible to decompose plastics for it

i think the p2p route will return, i remember people on the hive raving about the 80's meth (racemic) that was so much better than the d- that is produced from pseudo.
Click to expand...

Sure styrene is OTC. ACE hardware sells it JUST IN CASE YOU WANT TO THIN YOUR POLYESTER RESIN (no sources!) Of course, there's still two big steps and a purification between that and p2p, even.

Prop dope (d, l, from P2P) is sometimes not to the taste of the hardcore d isomer fancying tweaker.
 
haribo1 said:
Pulmonary hypertension is a serious, serious condition. That U4EUH farm in the US showed all 3 people involved to have it quite badly.
Click to expand...
haribo:
what u4euh farm? is this online information?
V
 
Coolio said:
There's nothing hard about producing pseudoephedrine. In the future it might be necessary to grow Ephedra sinica commercially for the high concentration of ephedrine and psuedoephedrine useful as a precursor.
Click to expand...

In New Zealand there have been reports of gangs growing Ephedra sinensis under grow lights as a reliable source of ephedrine for making meth since the government took all the OTC pseudoeph products off the market....but then the price for meth over there is ridiculously high (up to $1000/gram) so i guess growing the plants to get precursors is worth it when the end product is so profitable....
 
Isn't ordering pure ephedrine bulk from china (?) an effective way?
 
Ephedrine is a List I chemical, so if Customs reported it to the DEA they would have your address to investigate.

If you ship Ephedra though it's perfectly legit. Even if it's been standardized to a high alkaloid content.
 
I'm pretty sure they still have ephedra (ma huang) in chinatowns
 
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