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Opiate addicts and the jail and prison systems

rachamim:
yes drug addiction is a disease but you cannot compare it to cancer or diabetes. that's completely ridiculous.....you do not choose to get cancer or diabetes, it's something out of your control if you get it. now i understand that once addiction has manifested itself it can become something you cannot control as well. but it's still something you CHOSE in the beginning nevertheless. it's your choice to start using/experimenting/whatever with a drug knowing that certain drugs have a high addiction potential. you're just stupid if you don't know that or think that it can't happen to you. (technically, i guess you could choose to get cancer as well, for example lung cancer from a lifetime of smoking. it is your decision to start and continue smoking all your life knowing it could lead to cancer, hence why you chose it. but that's a whole other debate.)

and again, in case you didn't read my earlier post i'm not talking about people who are wrongly incarcerated. i'm talking about people who use drugs or are addicted to drugs. if someone is using an ILLEGAL substance then obviously they cannot just be accused and thrown in jail because they are in fact GUILTY of a crime. i'm not saying i agree with that, i fuckin hate that certain drug use is a crime. but it's a damn fact if you use an illegal drug you are guilty of breaking the law, no if's and's or but's. that's why they are called illegal substances. doing something illegal = guilty. geeze, what's so hard to comprehend about that?

and why do you find my post funny? yes i post on a drug related board and use a drug related screenname, what the hell does that have to do with anything? this board is about harm reduction but ALSO about accepting responsibility for your own actions. do you think i'm against drugs or something? i have used drugs as well, and like i said earlier i know what the consequences could be for that and i am willing to ACCEPT RESPONSIBILITY for that.
 
note to ester:
Not everyone chooses to start using drugs. I have known people who's parents started them when they were barely old enough to walk.
 
ChemicalSmile said:
They dont give a fuck about you in jail. You are not a human. You are an animal locked in a cage. Believe that. Thats just how it goes.


QFT


i know a guy who held up a computer store at gun point....ended up getting arrested for it, had to do time. when he first got popped he was shooting like 50$ a day, when he went to jail he got so ill he tried to hang himself...they didnt give him anything, not even tylenol.

they know you cant die from opiate WD, well die directly from opiate WD...so yea, they just say fuck you and let you sweat it out.
 
i know a guy who held up a computer store at gun point....ended up getting arrested for it, had to do time. when he first got popped he was shooting like 50$ a day, when he went to jail he got so ill he tried to hang himself...they didnt give him anything, not even tylenol.

they know you cant die from opiate WD, well die directly from opiate WD...so yea, they just say fuck you and let you sweat it out.

see that's what i'm talking about. i can't believe these bastards that hold people up at gunpoint and rob people, and when they actually get caught they expect to be treated with respect??? fuck that! he wasn't doing the store owner/employees any favors when he pointed a gun at them, definitely wasn't being respectful to them or even treating them like human beings at all. then he gets thrown in jail and he expects favors to be thrown his way and expects to be treated in a humane way?! i too would say fuck you and let him sweat it out.

we all know the golden rule. live by it.
 
ether_synth said:
see that's what i'm talking about. i can't believe these bastards that hold people up at gunpoint and rob people, and when they actually get caught they expect to be treated with respect??? fuck that! he wasn't doing the store owner/employees any favors when he pointed a gun at them, definitely wasn't being respectful to them or even treating them like human beings at all. then he gets thrown in jail and he expects favors to be thrown his way and expects to be treated in a humane way?! i too would say fuck you and let him sweat it out.

we all know the golden rule. live by it.

the 8th amendment forbids cruel and unusual punishment, so even serial killers are to be treated with respect in the court room/prison.
 
Being in the us I was given my subetex, in jail because I turned myselsf in. but people in sweeden and other european countries are aforeded their methadone and dIceYtalmorphine in prison, Because they are. I hate American health care, and the judical sytstem.
 
I feel for people arrested for possession or selling who have to withdraw in a cold jail cell, thats just hell.

But someone arrested for armed robbery? Sounds like a good jail WD might help give him an epiphany about his life. Its not cruel and unusual punishment, CAU would be if the guards came in and doused you with ice water because they knew you were WDing. Just the downside of commiting crimes while addicted to a drug you have to dose twice daily.

And US jails are good about giving you access to medical attention, every inmate has a chance to talk to a nurse about any health issues. If benzo or alcohol WD was getting life threatening they would get medical care, they do not want a lawsuit on their hands.
 
before they take you back in population they ask if your going to WD from any drugs, and if you say they basically keep you in this fucking box with no shower for lik 5days they might check up on you a little bit more but other then that they dont give a fuck . its jail not day care , but its not just rikker island any prison you can get drugs, but most jails ( not prison ) have a no touch visting u see them through glass but in the prison u sit at a table so its easier to get drugs in , but different places react different ways
 
Having been in prisons in 2 nations, while addicted, I have quite a bit of subjective expereince in this matter.

Rikers is not the only US facility that has methadone. It is in Seattle, Mnmouth Co. Correctional in NJ, and many other places. Back in the 80s the claim would have been true though. Back then the most you could get was Clonidine and a Tylenol without Codeine of course.

Rikers by the way is no picnic. When admitted (and I have been a few times) you must wait to see Medical for up to a day and ahalf. Then , after telling them you are in a program, you must wait for verification which always waits until normal buisiness hours. Even if your clinic provides 24 hour verificationn, Rikers will not even try until buisiness hours.

Then, you will be given 10 mgs. less than your street dose and that decreases 10 every 3 days until 30, then 5 every day. At 0 you will get Dalmane for a few days to help you sleep at night.

You can get in KEEP which is Maintenance if you have a misdemeanour or less than a year time for a felony. That takes time and patience though in order to even gain your interview. Remember, there are almost 18,000 people on Rikers and the dope house, C95 has a good 4000. It is so big that the COs use golfcartstomove from place toplace.

If you are not in a program, good luck. If you have very fresh tracks you can often get 20 mgs. which will decrease 5 every 3 days. No fresh tracks, no methadone, EVER.

I will say though, if you have to be in any jail, methadone is the way to go. Every evening after supper they call meds out , you line up with your id badge on your collar, and march down to medical and get your dose. You should see the projects, the dorms, after dosing...Like a zoo.

There are often mistakes though. I received a 20 thousand US settlement because I was incarcerated 3 days past my due date and as a result was not dosed for more than 4 days. I was on 190 so it was not fun.

As for dying from w/d...I am in methadone w/d right now, cold turkey. If you have another medical problem you can die but not from w/d itself. It still is nopicnic though.

man that must of been rough i had to do a 4 day stint in my local parish jail foR **** failing a piss test for probation for cannabis*** and the jail was so full they scheduled me a date to show up so before i called the head of medical and they said they cant give out any narcotics no matter what i did was i ended up taking all my weekend doses (because i went in on a friday )at once and 3 wafers and i figured that would hold me over for at least 3 days and just suffer the last day and it really did help i remember cuz the dose i took was 420mg and since i was already dirty for weed i had to smoke a doob for that before i went in all in all on the 4th day it was the worse but not THAT bad but i only slept the first night i came in i mean i was nodding since i had got in struggling to stay up sayin to myself (dont waste this good buzz dont do it!) because honestly how often to mmt members get a NICE nod barley ever if your maintaned but man the condition of louisiana jails are HORRIBLE everyones just out in the open on cots no a/c its like a giant sweat box i hope i never have to go back i remember thinking if i ever have to get iin trouble im running to new york and gettin in that mmt program they got!
 
Ether: Your differentiating between addiction and other accepted diseases is nothing more than moral perogative. Addiction is fully accepted as a disease, JUST LIKE any OTHER accepted diseases.

Although Addiction Science s still in its infancy it is still a known fact that its roots are biological. You responded to my point on diabetes. Diabetes must be triggered by a paticular mose of behavoir. How is that ANY different than addiction?

Addiction is soemthing we are born with. Irtt only becomes active IF we trigger it. It takes a voluntary behavoir to trigger it, JUST LIKE consuming vast amounts of table sugar can trigger forms of diabetes. The brain then triggers a response felt throughout the body and a person's life is then irreviocably changed. Again, how is this any differen?

Some cancers are environmental in imeptus. Let us take some forms of cervical cancer are triggered by HPV. HPV of course is something one gets from unprotected sex.

For that matter, so is HIV and AIDs.

How are any of these different?

"You are stupid if you think it cannot happen to you."

Let me tell you a story...I am a 40 year old man. I have been addicted for almost 25 years. Know how I got addicted?

I was shot through my jaw in Lebanon, taking out some teeth before the fragments settled in my sinuses where they remain to this day. I was first given morphine immediately after since we all carried/carry morphine injectettes.

I did not become a full fledged addict though until I received my second and last wound more than a year later at age 17. How stupid is the man who gets cancer and then becomes addicted to dilaudi before ebating his cancer? How stupid is the soldier who is pumped full of morphine and then needs it after he has physically healed?


You do,in a round about way, admit that some cancers are behavoirally drien but somehow cometo the conclusion that the pian associated with those cancers are then the fault of the person suffering from it. This is a moralpsoition, It is neither scientific nor is it humanitarian in any sense of the word.

Luckily, outside of a tiny circle, most people do not think like you.

If a person is wrongly convicted it does not matter if they also used drugs. If I am a junky, who is soemhow accuse of killing a man I never met, how is it right to throw me in jail? Because I was a junky then it is ok, because people like you do not have the same morals as me?

Her is a newsflash: EVERY society on Earth, in EVERY era excepting one group in one era, has used psychoactive substances. You know who the exception is? So called Eskimos and then only because of their environment which all changed as soon as the Europeans intorduced them to alcohol. Now there is not a single culture on Earth that does not imbibe psychoactively.

Think that you are an exception, even though you have a name associated with illicit substances? Do you smoke tobacco? Drink alcohol? Ingest caffeine in any substance? Chocolate maybe? See? Your whole line of reasoning is faulty.

Now, if we accept that drug use is illegal and that a person has been incarcerated simply for using drugs, is it then ok for a person to be tortured with purposeful withdrawal? Do you think it is ok to whip people who draw graffitti? What about amputating a limb for being accused of pilfering a 10 cent periodical? How about life with a 25 stip for being accused of the same thing with a slice of pizza? Or is instead simply wrong for some things and not for others?

So, you post on this board because you are committed to Harm Reduction? I hope that you are aware that methadone maintanence is a strong component of this philosophy and actually grew directly from it.

Or is it only people who are not so unlucky to have had their use land them in jails that should be allowed to bring stability to their lives. You think that Opioid Substiutution is some sort of reward? You have a lot of learning to with regards to Harm Reduction.

Garuda: Per your comment about armed robbery...First, there people accused of it who never did it. Second, there are people accused who were forced into it by circumstanc elike a girl who is giving her old man a ride aand he says he is going into a 7-11 for a pack of smokes. He comes out, they drive away, and she is then charged with being an accomplice (aiding and abetting). Third, what about the man in the States that was fitted with a bomb after he delivered a pizza to a man and was told he would be bolwn up if he did not comply? See, there is no one size fits all for every situation. Then, if we afford SOME people care, we cannot deny others for fear of missing boanfide cases. Your reasoning is faulty as well.

Ward: In any correctional facility I have ever been in, and I have seen my share, there have been enough drugs . The problem is purity, price, and means to use them. My first day of my last time in Rikers, in 4 upper in C95 a kid overdosed on heroin in the bathroom. The CO did not give a damn. He did get mad though when that night there was a gang conflict and a kid got killed with a shank. They really do not care, and furthermore, most drugs in jail come from staff, not the visiting room.
 
From what I've heard from detox professionals, the only detox you can die from is alcohol. I've heard it numerous times. From what I have heard, the ONLY detox you can actually die from is alcohol. I've actually heard that the only addiction you have that htey are conscerned about is alcohol, that they actually tell you to NOT stop drinking till you get to the detox center. From what I have heard is that they tell alcoholics to NOT stop drinking til they get to the center. It's the only substance that they say that for the addicts. I've heard of alcoholics having seizures and heart attacks from quitting cold turkey.
 
^^^when I was kicking heroin 23 hours a day in a cell i was talking to a hardcore alcoholic in the cell next to me. The guy was in extremely rough shape. and he was much worse off than me,
The one exception to the opiate thing i've ever heard is that my (now ex) GF said the jail gave a pregnant opiate addict 20-40mgs of OC a day to help her detox because she was 6-8 months pregnant and they didn't want to loose the baby. In my county jsil they won't give you NOTHING. Some of the oither counties give out darvocet or MAYBE a small ammount of methadone.

the lesson is, don't get caught. IF you know you're going to get caught, stuff some pills up your ass,
 
Zagneth: You need new professionals then. You can also die very easily from benzodiazepine withdrawals as well. Still, in N. America, as far as I know now facility has a policy on either alcoholor benzo w/d. I have seen many suffering from both.

Danster: No, that is not the lesson. The lesson is get caught in NYC...when in N. America.
 
Every time Iv been to jail Iv told them that Im a alcholic, and that Id have delerium tremors soon. They gave me LIbrium, and some nausea/stomach drug. I never wanted to tell them Im an Heroin addict because I think they would just like to see you suffer, but for some reason their more sympathetic/understanding to alcoholics, than to junkies.
 
^
Nice avatar. I wonder who's pic that his?
 
^ It came from someware here on BL. It coud even be yours phrozen. If it is yours, is it cool if I use it.
 
Yeah it's mine. You could use it all you want man.
 
cool, thanks.^ they dont even have dope like that here on the west coast, but awsome pic.
 
smokester said:
This applies to pretty much everything including the common cold.

You might feel like it, but you cant die from ope WD directly, as is the case of Delirium Tremens from detoxing off of benzos, barbs, alcohol, etc.


yep those were the only ones i knew you could die from.....
but i do agree, i think it is cruel, i don't know what i'd do, i mean the last time i saw my doctor and went to the pharmacy (which always give me a hard time handing over my suboxone to me), the pharm, said they couldn't give me my script b/c my doc didn't specify how many to take a day (but yet a month prior they told me my doc has to start just writing "take as directed")! I started to panic,... i couldn't imagine what would be goin thru my head in the back of the cop car whether i was fuckd up or not, i would just be thinkin about the up commin pain i would endure8(
 
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