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Thread: Opiate addicts and the jail and prison systems

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    Opiate addicts and the jail and prison systems 
    #1
    be prepared to detox if arrested (unless your on rikers island in new york) doesnt anyone agree that this is cruel and unusual punishment? shouldnt they give you somthing like methadone or subutex i mean people could die detoxing!
     

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    #2
    That's the catch- you can't [die from an ope WD]. Benzos, on the other hand...
     

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    #3
    really? ive heard that you can die but i really never seen any scientific proof ... but couldnt u die from a methadone detox???
     

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    #4
    not from an opioid, no
     

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    #5
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    you can die from opiate withdrawal, its just unlikely to die directly from it. but if you have some other medical condition that could be worsened or aggravated by opiate withdrawal, you could die. at least according to what ive read.
     

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    #6
    Bluelighter ChemicalSmiles's Avatar
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    They dont give a fuck about you in jail. You are not a human. You are an animal locked in a cage. Believe that. Thats just how it goes.
     

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    #7
    Quote Originally Posted by burn out
    you can die from opiate withdrawal, its just unlikely to die directly from it. but if you have some other medical condition that could be worsened or aggravated by opiate withdrawal, you could die. at least according to what ive read.
    This applies to pretty much everything including the common cold.

    You might feel like it, but you cant die from ope WD directly, as is the case of Delirium Tremens from detoxing off of benzos, barbs, alcohol, etc.
     

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    #8
    Bluelighter melange's Avatar
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    yea but as evidence shows it's pretty rare
     

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    #9
    Quote Originally Posted by smokester
    This applies to pretty much everything including the common cold.

    You might feel like it, but you cant die from ope WD directly, as is the case of Delirium Tremens from detoxing off of benzos, barbs, alcohol, etc.
    You can die from alcohol and benzo WD if your dose is high enough, a friend witnessed a woman he worked with go into seizures in the office and taken away by ambulance because she was WDing from xanax.
     

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    #10
    Bluelighter getreal's Avatar
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    Yea, and you can die in a plane crash, a botched surgery, a tornado, blah blah.
     

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    #11
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    lately there have been movements in the US justice system to allow some type substance to aid opiate w/d of addicts serving time. there are a handful of prisons that will let you take some type of maintenance route.

    but jail is not like prison. if you are serving time in jail it usually a much more short of a stay. you do not get things like carpet, good commisary, and time to go outside (usually) when serving jail. you sure as fuck don't get hooked up with any opiate maintenance drugs.
     

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    #12
    Bluelight Crew sonic's Avatar
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    This is more of a social topic so I'm going to move it to drug culture.

    -> Drug Culture

    Of course it's cruel. Law enforcement is intentionally cruel to "junkies" because they have blind hatred for them. That's one of the reasons I have blind hatred for all law enforcement. The fact of the matter is that opiate withdrawal alone just isn't fatal, unlike drugs that work on GABA like benzos and alcohol because withdrawal from these drugs can cause seizures.
     

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    #13
    i hate this talk of how people addicted to drugs need to be treated nicely in jail, or anyone in jail for that matter. it's a fact of life that jail sucks. it's sucky and crappy and made to be that way so people will be deterred from landing themselves there. if you're so concerned about having to go through withdrawals in jail then don't fuckin get arrested. if you decide to do something to get yourself arrested, then deal with going to crappy jail. fact of life. deal with it.
     

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    #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by smokester
    This applies to pretty much everything including the common cold.

    You might feel like it, but you cant die from ope WD directly, as is the case of Delirium Tremens from detoxing off of benzos, barbs, alcohol, etc.

    lots of people actually do die from the common cold.
     

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    #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by ether_synth
    i hate this talk of how people addicted to drugs need to be treated nicely in jail, or anyone in jail for that matter. it's a fact of life that jail sucks. it's sucky and crappy and made to be that way so people will be deterred from landing themselves there. if you're so concerned about having to go through withdrawals in jail then don't fuckin get arrested. if you decide to do something to get yourself arrested, then deal with going to crappy jail. fact of life. deal with it.

    its supposed to be innocent until proven guilty though, this may shock you but not everyone who gets arrested is guilty of a crime. that's why people complain, people who are in jail awaiting trial are treated just like they're already guilty. i know someone in jail right now and he gets 1 20 minute visit with his wife per week and he cant even make phone calls to cell phones, how is that innocent until proven guilty?
     

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    #16
    Bluelighter mukant666's Avatar
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    i hate this talk of how people addicted to drugs need to be treated nicely in jail, or anyone in jail for that matter. it's a fact of life that jail sucks. it's sucky and crappy and made to be that way so people will be deterred from landing themselves there. if you're so concerned about having to go through withdrawals in jail then don't fuckin get arrested. if you decide to do something to get yourself arrested, then deal with going to crappy jail. fact of life. deal with it.
    I know, that's some BS how poeple think they should be treated nice when they are in jail, like given methadone or suboxone. If you were in jail and had to go through withdrawals would suck though.
     

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    #17
    i agree with you burn out, but since this is about opiate addicts and jail, i guess my response was more aimed to addicts suffering withdrawals in jail. it's something that people with a physical dependance on any illegal substance needs to accept as part of the consequences for their decisions. they need to think to themselves, "every time i use drugs i am running some risk of getting arrested/getting caught and if i go to jail no one there is going to look out for me or really care about my wellbeing, but i am willing to take that risk." and they if are willing to take that risk then they need to be willing to deal with the consequences, yes which could include going through withdrawals in jail. don't expect anyone to make your visit there a nice and comfy one.

    and this goes to anyone who uses drugs, not just opiate addicts. the times i decide to use an illegal substance i am also accepting that there is some risk i could go to jail and it's going to be shitty as hell. but if i get caught well that's my fault and i shouldn't be complaining that jail treatment isn't nice.
     

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    #18
    Bluelighter rachamim's Avatar
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    Ether: Funny, youpost on a drug related board, use a drug related screen name and then come up with pseudo-fascist nonsense about the treatment needs of drug addicted individuals.

    Tell us, do you believe that drug addiction is a disease? If so, then how is it different from a person with cancer? Should they recieve chemo in jaoil? What about pain relief? How about diabetics? Should they have their insulin denied?

    What about people who do not belong in jail? say a person who is wrongly incarcerated, something that happens quite often. Should they be made to suffer needlessly?

    Addiction is a recognised disease the world over. Opioid Substitution Therapy is a recognised therapy for managing this debilitating disease although not worldside. It is however totally recognised in the US, Canada, and the EU...among many other places.


    China used to offer users one chance at rehab and then execute them if they had a single dirty urine afterwards. Now even China offers methadone, and has begun a pilot program within some of its prisons.

    With your line of reasoning, we could just throw a person ACCUSED of a crime into a dubngeon and not feed him or her, because jail after all is not supposed to be a nice place...
     

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    #19
    Bluelighter rachamim's Avatar
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    Having been in prisons in 2 nations, while addicted, I have quite a bit of subjective expereince in this matter.

    Rikers is not the only US facility that has methadone. It is in Seattle, Mnmouth Co. Correctional in NJ, and many other places. Back in the 80s the claim would have been true though. Back then the most you could get was Clonidine and a Tylenol without Codeine of course.

    Rikers by the way is no picnic. When admitted (and I have been a few times) you must wait to see Medical for up to a day and ahalf. Then , after telling them you are in a program, you must wait for verification which always waits until normal buisiness hours. Even if your clinic provides 24 hour verificationn, Rikers will not even try until buisiness hours.

    Then, you will be given 10 mgs. less than your street dose and that decreases 10 every 3 days until 30, then 5 every day. At 0 you will get Dalmane for a few days to help you sleep at night.

    You can get in KEEP which is Maintenance if you have a misdemeanour or less than a year time for a felony. That takes time and patience though in order to even gain your interview. Remember, there are almost 18,000 people on Rikers and the dope house, C95 has a good 4000. It is so big that the COs use golfcartstomove from place toplace.

    If you are not in a program, good luck. If you have very fresh tracks you can often get 20 mgs. which will decrease 5 every 3 days. No fresh tracks, no methadone, EVER.

    I will say though, if you have to be in any jail, methadone is the way to go. Every evening after supper they call meds out , you line up with your id badge on your collar, and march down to medical and get your dose. You should see the projects, the dorms, after dosing...Like a zoo.

    There are often mistakes though. I received a 20 thousand US settlement because I was incarcerated 3 days past my due date and as a result was not dosed for more than 4 days. I was on 190 so it was not fun.

    As for dying from w/d...I am in methadone w/d right now, cold turkey. If you have another medical problem you can die but not from w/d itself. It still is nopicnic though.
     

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    #20
    Quote Originally Posted by rachamim
    With your line of reasoning, we could just throw a person ACCUSED of a crime into a dubngeon and not feed him or her, because jail after all is not supposed to be a nice place...
    In the USA, if they want to do this they can now, all they gotta do is call you a terrorist.

    Anyway, most jails here in Mich they will take you to the hopsital if your dt'ing bad enough, what happens next is up to the hospital, but I have heard of people having to go to rehab on tether, then having to serve the whole jail time afterward, and still getting billed for the rehab.. but its still better than nothing. Not everyone gets treated equally though.....
     

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    #21
    rachamim:
    yes drug addiction is a disease but you cannot compare it to cancer or diabetes. that's completely ridiculous.....you do not choose to get cancer or diabetes, it's something out of your control if you get it. now i understand that once addiction has manifested itself it can become something you cannot control as well. but it's still something you CHOSE in the beginning nevertheless. it's your choice to start using/experimenting/whatever with a drug knowing that certain drugs have a high addiction potential. you're just stupid if you don't know that or think that it can't happen to you. (technically, i guess you could choose to get cancer as well, for example lung cancer from a lifetime of smoking. it is your decision to start and continue smoking all your life knowing it could lead to cancer, hence why you chose it. but that's a whole other debate.)

    and again, in case you didn't read my earlier post i'm not talking about people who are wrongly incarcerated. i'm talking about people who use drugs or are addicted to drugs. if someone is using an ILLEGAL substance then obviously they cannot just be accused and thrown in jail because they are in fact GUILTY of a crime. i'm not saying i agree with that, i fuckin hate that certain drug use is a crime. but it's a damn fact if you use an illegal drug you are guilty of breaking the law, no if's and's or but's. that's why they are called illegal substances. doing something illegal = guilty. geeze, what's so hard to comprehend about that?

    and why do you find my post funny? yes i post on a drug related board and use a drug related screenname, what the hell does that have to do with anything? this board is about harm reduction but ALSO about accepting responsibility for your own actions. do you think i'm against drugs or something? i have used drugs as well, and like i said earlier i know what the consequences could be for that and i am willing to ACCEPT RESPONSIBILITY for that.
     

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    #22
    note to ester:
    Not everyone chooses to start using drugs. I have known people who's parents started them when they were barely old enough to walk.
     

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    #23
    Bluelighter 'medicine cabinet''s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChemicalSmile
    They dont give a fuck about you in jail. You are not a human. You are an animal locked in a cage. Believe that. Thats just how it goes.

    QFT


    i know a guy who held up a computer store at gun point....ended up getting arrested for it, had to do time. when he first got popped he was shooting like 50$ a day, when he went to jail he got so ill he tried to hang himself...they didnt give him anything, not even tylenol.

    they know you cant die from opiate WD, well die directly from opiate WD...so yea, they just say fuck you and let you sweat it out.
     

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    #24
    i know a guy who held up a computer store at gun point....ended up getting arrested for it, had to do time. when he first got popped he was shooting like 50$ a day, when he went to jail he got so ill he tried to hang himself...they didnt give him anything, not even tylenol.

    they know you cant die from opiate WD, well die directly from opiate WD...so yea, they just say fuck you and let you sweat it out.
    see that's what i'm talking about. i can't believe these bastards that hold people up at gunpoint and rob people, and when they actually get caught they expect to be treated with respect??? fuck that! he wasn't doing the store owner/employees any favors when he pointed a gun at them, definitely wasn't being respectful to them or even treating them like human beings at all. then he gets thrown in jail and he expects favors to be thrown his way and expects to be treated in a humane way?! i too would say fuck you and let him sweat it out.

    we all know the golden rule. live by it.
     

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    #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by ether_synth
    see that's what i'm talking about. i can't believe these bastards that hold people up at gunpoint and rob people, and when they actually get caught they expect to be treated with respect??? fuck that! he wasn't doing the store owner/employees any favors when he pointed a gun at them, definitely wasn't being respectful to them or even treating them like human beings at all. then he gets thrown in jail and he expects favors to be thrown his way and expects to be treated in a humane way?! i too would say fuck you and let him sweat it out.

    we all know the golden rule. live by it.
    the 8th amendment forbids cruel and unusual punishment, so even serial killers are to be treated with respect in the court room/prison.
     

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