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new suboxone pill

haribo1 said:
Many years ago I visited and was offered some. I snorted four 5mg tablets and felt groovy (I have no tolerence). It's a slippery slope, though. I'm interested in more euphoric partial agonists (somewhat like buprenorphine) to prevent tolerence kicking in. In a survey of british prisons, it was found that buprenorphine abuse was rife but people didn't keep upping their dose. In fact, even total drug-monsters said that the same dose kept giving them the same high which is interesting. Alter that side-chain and you could end up with something more euphoric but not tolerence-building...

The holy grail would be a selective, full mu1 agonist (no activity at mu2), antagonist at delta (like buprenorphine), full gamma agonist. I am both curious and very scared to see what will happen to the opiophobic/"narcotics are evil" propogandized community when selective-mu agonists can be created. Since both respiratory depression and tolerance are functions of mu2 and delta, this would be an opioid with a virtually unlimited dose ceiling, no potential for (fatal) overdose, and limited/no physical addiction.

It is possible to prevent the onset of tolerance for the most part already. Do some research on CCK antagonists (Proglumide et al), NMDA antagonists' effects on opioid potentiation and attenuation/prevention of tolerance, and ultra low-dose antagonist (e.g. naloxone) effects on opioid potentiation and attenuation/prevention of tolerance. I have used the CCK antagonist and ULD Naloxone routes to successfully block/somewhat successfully attenuate tolerance (to a point) in the past, and had I known their capabilities, would have killed to have these substances around at the beginning of my opioid "experiences."

Anyway, with enough knowledge and proper application of the above strategies in combination with not going too crazy on dose escalation (it sounds like you are already adequately paranoid/prepared on that subject), it would be substantially easier to maintain a full agonist "habit" with little to no dose escalation in the long-term.

Just some interesting subjects to read about if you haven't already.

-DD
 
there has to be an enzyme or whatever that could cause more euphoria with bupe.

for me to get "high" on suboxone. I take a whole one, with about 4 Ibuprophens, then smoke a bowl of dank, and take 2-4mgs of klonopin and some 5-htp. The ibuprofen blocks a headache and you have crazy dreams and nods too.

I only go through all the trouble when I have nothing to wake up for. (which is many days hehe).

sometimes i miss opiates. but suboxone is a gravy miracle!
 
Interesting thread. Keep us updated w/ anymore information. I've been on Suboxone maintenance for about 1.5 years now, but I may be moving up to Canada.
 
the onset of suboxone is good as is. It should be for everybody taking it as directed. I mean, if you've been taking it and are compliant with the sig rules then there should be enough built up in your system due to it's fairly long half life to the point that onset time doesn't even matter!

I can kind of understand an "insta-solve" pill or something that rapidly dissolves, faster than current suboxones, so people don't accidently swallow the pill. Maybe different flavored pills, too! Overall that seems like a waste of R&D though. Why bother fixing something that isn't broke?

Bellvue along with Yeshiva University was doing a "buprenorphine implant" research study here in NYC this past winter. I wonder what came of that? There are tons of bupe participation groups at various universities here, in coordiance with local hospitals or the uni's medican center. Columbia, St. Lukes, etc... all do a bupe study every other month it seems. A very good way for someone in the city that can't afford "regular" bupe treatment to get involved. From my experience (I've called and spoke with a few ppl from different studies) A lot of times though, the participation studies involve a FAST TAPER with bupe, opposed to your choice of when you want to taper when going to see a "real doctor".
 
^ true, you are at the will of the study. but youre right, its a great way to get treatment or at least stay well for a while when you are out on the streets or hurting for money. i was able to get 3 months of methadone and 3 months of suboxone from a study i was in totally for free. it was great.

bupe implant sounds interesting. there are a lot of bupe studies it seems. i was in one 2 years ago for a bupe skin patch. i dont know if they went ahead with it or not. it didnt work well and a bunch of the gel spilled on my skin when they were applying it and it got me pretty high actually, in that dirty bupe way.
 
previouslyhere said:
Bellvue along with Yeshiva University was doing a "buprenorphine implant" research study here in NYC this past winter.

Whoah! A Buprenorphine implant?! That's interesting!

Here's a bit of information: http://www.titanpharm.com/pdf/CPDD.pdf

This implant is called "Probuphine".

I wonder how many mgs of Buprenoprhine it delivers in a day?
The implant works for 6 months.
 
previouslyhere said:
the onset of suboxone is good as is. It should be for everybody taking it as directed. I mean, if you've been taking it and are compliant with the sig rules then there should be enough built up in your system due to it's fairly long half life to the point that onset time doesn't even matter!

I can kind of understand an "insta-solve" pill or something that rapidly dissolves, faster than current suboxones, so people don't accidently swallow the pill. Maybe different flavored pills, too! Overall that seems like a waste of R&D though. Why bother fixing something that isn't broke?

Yeah, it sounds to me like the company isn't putting too much effort into making some new innovative suboxone pill here. Their attempt to market a new pill that dissolves faster and tastes better is a pretty half assed reason to release a new pill on the market. I guess their attitude is that they can release something that is slightly better than what they already have by not spending that much money in order to make more money in the suboxone market. I guess they think more people will like the fact that it dissolves so fast and isn't gross tasting. I imagine there are plenty of H addicts who have problems dealing with the bitter taste of pills. Personally as a long-time drug user I have become quite immune to most bitter tastes of most different pills from all my attempts to get high by taking things sublingually over the years.
 
For the poster asking about the reason behind the lack of "euphoria " with bupe...Like methadone [another ultra-high affinity agonist] it lacks the vital 1/4 of the 4 part Morphine Rule. As another poster stated however, this does not stop some people from abusing it. As stated, in S. Asia [SW if you want to be precise] they inject it [I believe th poster also stated this]. It is a huge problem but then again so is bhang [vile substance] and Phenisdyl [vile times two] so it does not mean that is a paticulary effective recreational substance for most people [add a third one with Nubain Hcl.].
 
^ Im confused. What is this "4 part Morphine Rule?"

You can make fun of me if its something everyone knows and Im just dumb and dont realize it.
 
A quick googling brings us:

1. A tertiary nitrogen with a small alkyl substituent.
2. A quaternary carbon.
3. A phenyl group or its isosteric equivalent directly
attached to the quaternary carbon.
4. A 2 carbon spacer between the quaternary carbon
and the tertiary nitrogen

This is referring to the opiate's molecular structure.

Looking at bupe, it looks like it actually does follow all parts, as it should being morphine-derived.

The reason bupe lacks the euphoria of a other opioids, such as heroin and oxycodone (pure agonists), is simple; buprenorphine is only a partial agonist at the mu receptor.


Sorry for the hijack.
 
^ Hm. Interesting.

I didnt even think to google it because I just figured it was some kind of set of rules that...you know, I dont even know what I thought.

Thanks for clearing it up though.
 
I didn't mean anything rude or negative by the google comment, sorry if it came off that way.
Always glad to help.
 
^ no problem, never thought otherwise.

Even if you had, I said it was cool to make fun of me for asking, so it would have been fine.
 
The study sounds great no matter how anti-climatic the result of the new pill. I did subutex maintainence without insurance and it definitely wasn't cheap. I was paying $8 dollars a pill and $150 every 2 weeks for the doctor visit. It was a lot cheaper than my oxycodone habit though.
 
^ My experience with suboxone maintenence is the same, but its not that big of a deal to me because any price is better than the habit you are coming from. You gotta figure, like in my case for example, I was spending almost 200 dollars a day on heroin, so 150 bucks a week aint shit (mine was actually cheaper. Initial 400 dollar payment, which included 4 doctor visits, then 80 dollars a visit after that, which were every two weeks, and about 80 dollars per prescription)
 
Thats interesting... I get headaches On doses of suboxone above 4MG... i'm going

to bring this up to my doctor and possibly get the subutex script instead. I never

was an IV user so i Shouldnt have any problems right?
 
medicine cabinet- i'm in the area :) actually a lil north of towson if you know where that is
 
makaveli777 said:
Thats interesting... I get headaches On doses of suboxone above 4MG... i'm going

to bring this up to my doctor and possibly get the subutex script instead. I never

was an IV user so i Shouldnt have any problems right?
I used to get the same headaches, though switching to subutex made no difference - I believe they were from the bupe itself.
 
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