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    new suboxone pill 
    #1
    Bluelighter 'medicine cabinet''s Avatar
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    this will probably get closed but,

    on the 28th i am set to take part in a research study here in baltimore for a new type of suboxone pill. it is supposed to be like one of those rapid dissolve type pills. i hear its supposed to be a new flavor as well. the formulation will be the same but the pill will be different size/taste ect..

    the study wont give me an actual dose of the new pill, its just a marketing group to try out the new pill and how fast it dissolves, then i guess i rate the pill on taste and how fast it breaks down. which is weird cause you think reckitt becksindale or however you spell the manufacturers name would be interested in if the buperenorphine gets absorbed any faster.

    if anyone in the baltimore area takes suboxone and is interseted in the study PM me. it pays 50$ for 30 mins also.
     

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    #2
    Bluelighter DopaMan's Avatar
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    Keep us updated on the delicious flavor and speed of dissolution.

    Also it will be interesting to see if the mods consider passing out information on participating in drug studies to be sourcing
     

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    #3
    Do I take it that Suboxone is for treating drug-dependance rather than removing pain? If so, I'm surprised that the company would care, but there you go. Subutex will shortly be history & Suboxone will take it's place (the king is dead, long live the king and so on). I keep hearing that although you cannot shoot them, you can still snort them without going into withdrawal. Dunno if it's true, but there is some anecdotal evidence around the place...
     

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    #4
    Bluelighter DopaMan's Avatar
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    I know plenty of people who snort sub. There isn't enough naloxone in there to do much even if shot. A headache is the only side effect I have heard of and most say 200 - 400mg of ibuprofen clears that up.
     

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    #5
    ^Interesting to know. So, Suboxone is no improvement over Subutex?
     

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    #6
    Bluelighter 'medicine cabinet''s Avatar
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    Yea i wasnt sure if this would be considered sourcing or not, if it is ill delete the post.

    suboxone is FDA approved for the treatment of opiate dependence. its just a formulation of buprenorphine and nalaxone, bupe isnt used too much for pain in the states as in europe, rest of the world. i have read its really big in india and france as an opiate of abuse.

    subutex is made by the same company but doesnt have the nalaxone in it. it is usually given during the induction phase of a maintenance or detox program. not alwayts, but sometimes. it is Rxed instead of suboxone for people that get bad headaches form the nalaxone. most people would think the nalaxone in the suboxone would keep people from shooting for fear of instant WD, but as some already know, you can shoot suboxone if you are already dependent on it. it seems like the bupe has a higher affinity for the receptors.

    if you are on other opiates like heroin or methadone, shooting it would induce WD but it would mainly be from the action of the bupe, since it naturally has antagonist properties. i think bupe is a dirty feeling high and dont take them to get high, but i know a few ppl who actually like to snort them. to each their own. IV bupe isnt bad either, its just not all that euphoric imo.

    as far as the actual pill of suboxone, its like a lemon lime flavoring but also has a bitter medicine taste. they take around 10 mins or so to dissolve them under the tongue as directed. so my guess is these new ones will have a better flavor and will dissolve faster. and yea it is interesting the company would spend the $ on something like this, but i can see a lot of ppl on the drug being thankful they are. they do taste pretty bad and dissolve slow.
     

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    #7
    ^Thanks for the information. I sort of guessed buprenorphine would have a higher affinity, but I thought that naloxone would still compete to a certain extent.
    I'm interested in the Chinese use of dihydro etorphine for pain and as a therapy for opiate addiction. Apparently they make 50ug tablets. It's supposed not to build up tolerence for some reason (like buprenorphine) although it LOOKS like a full agonist...
     

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    #8
    Bluelighter The Young Geezer's Avatar
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    Whoa!!! they have pills of etorphine made by a company and marketed for the general public in China? Incredible, it's supposed to be the most euphoric opoid with ketobemidone from what I've heard, I might be wrong cause some people say that despite it's ultra-high potency it ain't that euphoric, but I heard mixed reports of etorphine, but it always came from a lab source, didn't know it was legally marketed....fuck and my sister's best friend just came back from China....had I known this early I might have asked her for a gift, do you know the brand name? Thanks a lot
     

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    #9
    ^It's dihydro etorphine to be exact. I don't know why, but the 2 seem to be slightly different in action. Oh, and ketobemidone IS the nuts if you like that kind of high.
     

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    #10
    Bluelighter The Young Geezer's Avatar
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    I'm half swedish actually and lived in Malmo and Stockholm for a while, for sure I'll go back there since my father is Swedish and all his family is there, when I was there in november I was able to get some morphine and bupe pills in Gothenburg, but when I asked for ketobemidone they looked at me like I was crazy, and these were hardcore swedish heavy-metal junkies, guess I asked the wrong people or it isn't so diverted, but I promise next time I go to Sverige I'll get the fucking holy grail that ketobemidone is supposed to be! Have you tried it or "came by it" by chance Mr. Haribo?
     

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    #11
    Many years ago I visited and was offered some. I snorted four 5mg tablets and felt groovy (I have no tolerence). It's a slippery slope, though. I'm interested in more euphoric partial agonists (somewhat like buprenorphine) to prevent tolerence kicking in. In a survey of british prisons, it was found that buprenorphine abuse was rife but people didn't keep upping their dose. In fact, even total drug-monsters said that the same dose kept giving them the same high which is interesting. Alter that side-chain and you could end up with something more euphoric but not tolerence-building...
     

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    #12
    ^
    According to some articles I've read bupe abuse is also very common in India (Pakistan and the Phillipines too if I remember correctly). The most common moa being IV. One article was about the consequences of missed bupe shots. It even had abcess photos.


    As to the original topic, I never had a problem with bupe's SL onset. It was always rapid enough for me and everyone else I've talked to.

    Who's making these pills? I wouldn't be surprised if they're being made by Reckitt Benckiser and that that their Suboxone patents are about to expire soon.
     

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    #13
    Bluelighter
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    ^ If that is the case we may get it in Canada now. I think price is a major concern for Health Canada.

    If it goes generic then it may just become available soon here. That would be nice I think.
     

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    #14
    Bluelighter The Young Geezer's Avatar
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    If they become available in Alberta I'm saved, I'll go from naltrexone to bupe, my psychiatrist promesied me bupe, but there is no bupe in Argentina, however I have a lot of family that works in the medical field in Calgary, and I contacted them and my cousin who is a doctor topld me that bupe in alberta was still on trial stage so he couldn't get it to me, if I got bupe I think I'd stop doing what I do, take naltrexopne a few days to down-regulate my receptors and then take whatever opioid I come across 72 hours after and binge like a motherfucker, if this becomes availabale in Alberta I'm saved cause my cousin can legally import it, I already did the paper-eork at the health ministry down here to import bupe, but the other source I have is family in Israel and is too complicated since no one is in the medical field, I reallly really hope bupe becomes available in Alberta!
     

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    #15
    Bluelighter jasoncrest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by haribo1
    I'm interested in more euphoric partial agonists (somewhat like buprenorphine) to prevent tolerence kicking in. In a survey of british prisons, it was found that buprenorphine abuse was rife but people didn't keep upping their dose. In fact, even total drug-monsters said that the same dose kept giving them the same high which is interesting.
    Most users don't increase their Buprenorphine dosage because there is the ceiling dosage (there's no increase in effects above 16-24mg/day), so even people who have used it for years (like me) still use the same dosage, and never increase their dosage.
    But tolerance still develops quickly, after a few days/weeks of daily use, you feel nothing from it anymore, and if you started with 16-24mg, you can't take more to get more effects, as it is useless.
    I even find that the tolerance to Buprenorphine increase faster than tolerance to Morphine, because it is so long acting, so, just like Methadone, if you take it daily, the tolerance is very high after only a few days/weeks of use...
     

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    #16
    So whats the new flavor????
    I've been taking the nasty orange-ish suboxone for a year now. I'd be more than happy to get something that didn't taste quite as terrible?
     

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    #17
    Bluelighter 'medicine cabinet''s Avatar
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    im not sure of the new flavor yet, i get to try the pill on the 28th, so i have to wait another week. ill def left everyone know. im thinking they go in the direction of liquid methadone and give it some kind of a cherry flavor.
     

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    #18
    ^
    Do you know who's making them?
     

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    #19
    Bluelighter 'medicine cabinet''s Avatar
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    yea its going to be made by the same company. it is research for a new formulation of the pill. the guy from the research company i talked to said the pill is supposed to dissolve in like 1-2 minutes instead of 10
     

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    #20
    Bluelighter 'medicine cabinet''s Avatar
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    UPDATE:

    i just got back from the study for the new pill. heres what i know so far...

    the pills are still being made by reckitt. the shitty thing is the new pills are exactly like the old ones. they look the same, orange hexagon with N8 and a cross on the other side. the taste is a little bit sweeter. and as for the speed they dissolve it seemed faster but not by much. all in all i was pretty dissapointed. i was hoping for some small pill that would dissolve super fast but it wasnt like that. also the pills seemed less dense and more sticky when you first put them under the tongue.

    the research guy told me in europe they are trying to come out with a buccal tablet and a rapid disolve strip, like one of the listerene things. but those formulations dont contain nalaxone. he said since suboxone is rxed more than subutex here in the states, they wernt doing the trials for the buccal tablet and strip.
     

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    #21
    Quote Originally Posted by haribo1
    Many years ago I visited and was offered some. I snorted four 5mg tablets and felt groovy (I have no tolerence). It's a slippery slope, though. I'm interested in more euphoric partial agonists (somewhat like buprenorphine) to prevent tolerence kicking in. In a survey of british prisons, it was found that buprenorphine abuse was rife but people didn't keep upping their dose. In fact, even total drug-monsters said that the same dose kept giving them the same high which is interesting. Alter that side-chain and you could end up with something more euphoric but not tolerence-building...
    The holy grail would be a selective, full mu1 agonist (no activity at mu2), antagonist at delta (like buprenorphine), full gamma agonist. I am both curious and very scared to see what will happen to the opiophobic/"narcotics are evil" propogandized community when selective-mu agonists can be created. Since both respiratory depression and tolerance are functions of mu2 and delta, this would be an opioid with a virtually unlimited dose ceiling, no potential for (fatal) overdose, and limited/no physical addiction.

    It is possible to prevent the onset of tolerance for the most part already. Do some research on CCK antagonists (Proglumide et al), NMDA antagonists' effects on opioid potentiation and attenuation/prevention of tolerance, and ultra low-dose antagonist (e.g. naloxone) effects on opioid potentiation and attenuation/prevention of tolerance. I have used the CCK antagonist and ULD Naloxone routes to successfully block/somewhat successfully attenuate tolerance (to a point) in the past, and had I known their capabilities, would have killed to have these substances around at the beginning of my opioid "experiences."

    Anyway, with enough knowledge and proper application of the above strategies in combination with not going too crazy on dose escalation (it sounds like you are already adequately paranoid/prepared on that subject), it would be substantially easier to maintain a full agonist "habit" with little to no dose escalation in the long-term.

    Just some interesting subjects to read about if you haven't already.

    -DD
     

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    #22
    Bluelighter motiv311's Avatar
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    there has to be an enzyme or whatever that could cause more euphoria with bupe.

    for me to get "high" on suboxone. I take a whole one, with about 4 Ibuprophens, then smoke a bowl of dank, and take 2-4mgs of klonopin and some 5-htp. The ibuprofen blocks a headache and you have crazy dreams and nods too.

    I only go through all the trouble when I have nothing to wake up for. (which is many days hehe).

    sometimes i miss opiates. but suboxone is a gravy miracle!
     

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    #23
    Bluelighter Philoscybin's Avatar
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    Interesting thread. Keep us updated w/ anymore information. I've been on Suboxone maintenance for about 1.5 years now, but I may be moving up to Canada.
     

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    #24
    the onset of suboxone is good as is. It should be for everybody taking it as directed. I mean, if you've been taking it and are compliant with the sig rules then there should be enough built up in your system due to it's fairly long half life to the point that onset time doesn't even matter!

    I can kind of understand an "insta-solve" pill or something that rapidly dissolves, faster than current suboxones, so people don't accidently swallow the pill. Maybe different flavored pills, too! Overall that seems like a waste of R&D though. Why bother fixing something that isn't broke?

    Bellvue along with Yeshiva University was doing a "buprenorphine implant" research study here in NYC this past winter. I wonder what came of that? There are tons of bupe participation groups at various universities here, in coordiance with local hospitals or the uni's medican center. Columbia, St. Lukes, etc... all do a bupe study every other month it seems. A very good way for someone in the city that can't afford "regular" bupe treatment to get involved. From my experience (I've called and spoke with a few ppl from different studies) A lot of times though, the participation studies involve a FAST TAPER with bupe, opposed to your choice of when you want to taper when going to see a "real doctor".
     

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    #25
    Bluelighter 'medicine cabinet''s Avatar
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    ^ true, you are at the will of the study. but youre right, its a great way to get treatment or at least stay well for a while when you are out on the streets or hurting for money. i was able to get 3 months of methadone and 3 months of suboxone from a study i was in totally for free. it was great.

    bupe implant sounds interesting. there are a lot of bupe studies it seems. i was in one 2 years ago for a bupe skin patch. i dont know if they went ahead with it or not. it didnt work well and a bunch of the gel spilled on my skin when they were applying it and it got me pretty high actually, in that dirty bupe way.
     

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