eXisTenCe_
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Yeah, I totally agree. Of all b-ketones I ever did b1 was definitely the most speedy one. So be carefull!
The Big & Dandy bk-MBDB (Butylone) Thread
- Thread starter Jackal
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Yeah, I totally agree. Of all b-ketones I ever did b1 was definitely the most speedy one. So be carefull!
eXisTenCe_
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- Sep 23, 2010
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but still overall I'd rank b1 better than mephedrone, I really dont know, but much as I like m1 and b1, I had only bad experiences with meph.
Quantum_Think
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- Jun 28, 2010
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i'm soo high on bk-mbdb right now.
i ordered it almost a year ago but haven't touched it since because it gave me terrible anxiety the first time i tried it.
i insuffulated ~70 mg total tonight, approximately 10 hours after i dropped a roll (mdma, ~80mg)
i'm sooo glad i took it, i think you guys were right about this drug being mindstate-dependent. bk-mbdb put me in a shittier mood when i was already in a shitty mood, but when i took it tonight it put me in a much better mood cause i was already in a good mood.
i am also experiencing some minor visuals, mostly quick-moving fragments of visual perception "fireflies".
i ordered it almost a year ago but haven't touched it since because it gave me terrible anxiety the first time i tried it.
i insuffulated ~70 mg total tonight, approximately 10 hours after i dropped a roll (mdma, ~80mg)
i'm sooo glad i took it, i think you guys were right about this drug being mindstate-dependent. bk-mbdb put me in a shittier mood when i was already in a shitty mood, but when i took it tonight it put me in a much better mood cause i was already in a good mood.
i am also experiencing some minor visuals, mostly quick-moving fragments of visual perception "fireflies".
I'm curious to know how a parachute mixture of M1/B1 with MDAI and bit of mephedrone would effect someone.
Anyone have any insight?
Also, the over-energy and anxiety posted by others, i wonder if it was cut with MDPV?
I'd figure 150mg mephedrone mixed with 250mg M1, 80mg B1 and 100mg MDAI would bring the feeling closest to MDMA.
Anyone have any insight?
Also, the over-energy and anxiety posted by others, i wonder if it was cut with MDPV?
I'd figure 150mg mephedrone mixed with 250mg M1, 80mg B1 and 100mg MDAI would bring the feeling closest to MDMA.
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Dunno why everyone finds M1 jittery and makes them want to redose. Then again i find M1 lacking without mephedrone. Two halves of a whole. Toss some MDAI and 50mg flephedrone, rail a 200mg mephedrone line on the come-up and you're gravy. I just wonder if B1 would compliment all this or make it uncomfortable.
Then again, i have a very reliable source for M1. It's never jittery or speedy, very relaxing. Unfortunately it takes me 300-400mg to get to a good spot while others who do it are great at 150-200mg....
Does Butylone cause nausea similar to methylone?
Then again, i have a very reliable source for M1. It's never jittery or speedy, very relaxing. Unfortunately it takes me 300-400mg to get to a good spot while others who do it are great at 150-200mg....
Does Butylone cause nausea similar to methylone?
PhyllipThylamine
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- Feb 5, 2011
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I would very much agree with this.
Would it be wrong to say that the length of the chain going off of the carbon that is between the ketone and the nitrogen is what gives the larger stimulant feel?
I am curious because MDPV seems to support this as the MDO sub on MDPV vs regular pyrovalerone seems to change its potency alot.
Limited experiences that are online of pentylone support what I said I guessed, assuming all of this, wouldn't removing the chain off MDPV make it potentially more psychedelic?
Has this guy been looked into?
1-(1,3-benzodioxol-5-yl)-2-pyrrolidin-1-yl-ethanone
http://www.chemspider.com/Chemical-Structure.20572167.html
just messing around with it, this has probably been discussed before though
Has this guy been looked into?
1-(1,3-benzodioxol-5-yl)-2-pyrrolidin-1-yl-ethanone
http://www.chemspider.com/Chemical-Structure.20572167.html
just messing around with it, this has probably been discussed before though
Ok, so here is the report of my extensive experimenting with a new order of things that came in Monday night. The order contained MDAI, bk-MBDB and 4-FA. Plenty of quantity of all and a group of 3 guinea pigs, all with similar tolerance, and my girlfriend to play around with dosing/combos. It is a bit lengthy, but hopefully it helps give some quality info on the bk-MBDB as well as the MDAI and 4-FA.
My usage history: LSD, DOC, Mushies, DMT, adderal, opium and script opiates, benzos, 4MMC/MEC/FMC, MDPV, K, MXE, 2C-b/I/E/t-2/t-7, Bromodragonfly, 4-aco-DMT/MIPT, 5/6 APB, Methylone. COPIOUS amounts of MDMA/MDA over past 9 years.
I no longer smoke weed and I drink heavily on occasion. I prefer stims (particularly the more serotenergic ones) to psychedelics and love the combo of the two. I tend to have one 24ish hour experience on stims every week. Recently it has been a hodgepodge of different things in an attempt to find a suitable MDMA/MDA substitute since there hasn't been shit in my area since February, molly or pressed...
Tolerance: Generally speaking, due to regular use and 8 years of 5+ rolls every other weekend, I have a tolerance to stims that makes it necessary to start with a stronger dose than most people. I do take necessary precautions with new chems and never try something without researching it first. I consider myself a regular, heavy user of narcotics, but I do not feel it to be excessive. I have no addiction other than nicotine and the usage does not interfere with my 'real' life.
MDAI: Meh. This was acquired because of previous experience with 'MDAI' that had lead me to believe it was a suitable sub for MDMA. The previous experience was clearly not MDAI (mixture of MMC and MDAI seems most likely at this point). The powder was a very fine crystal that made it sparkle like a bag of glitter. Somewhat clumpy but not sticky. Color is an off white/grey color.
T+:00 - After an allergy tests, I insufflated 50mg to start.
T+:20 - Insuf. another 100mg
T+:40 - Insuf. another 100mg. At this level I felt almost no stimulation. Mood elevation to be sure but no more than could be attained by just thinking happy thoughts...
T+2:00 - Baseline
GF: followed the same timeline, but did oral doses at 150mg instead of insufflating b/c of discomfort from the initial 50mg. Similar results, mood lift but no stimulation.
GP1: Arrived after initial dosing and played catch up with a 150mg oral dose followed with another 150mg oral dose 20 min later. Similar results, nothing special.
GP2: Arrived after GP1 and, based on our experiences, chose to eat 200mg to start. After 1 hour and a return to complete baseline, he chose to try again with a 300mg oral dose. Some mild stimulation and definite mood elevation but nothing remarkable. Baseline within 2 hours of 300mg dose.
GP3: Arrived much later. Chose to do an 400mg oral dose in the name of science to see if there was a threshold amount. Successful (confirmed by mysef since). Led to a mellow, MDA like experience that was almost sedating. Euphoria present and some visual distortion. Empathy, though not forceful. Clear headed and very chatty. Re-dose with 400mg at the 2 hour mark increased effects past initial levels, duration was extended more than peak effects strengthened. Did not give qualitative account of comedown as 4-FA was taken late in the experience which negated the comedown.
Conclusion: Good, uplifting chem for chilling. Would not be worthwhile for going out, IMO as, even at high doses, it lacks a strong stimulant push.
Dose Recommendation: 250-450mg oral depending on tolerance and desired effects. Not worth tooting.
Duration Full effects around 30 minutes. Peak of 2-4 hours. Easy, quick comedown in about 45 minutes.
4-FA: Excellent chem! Very fine, granular texture and white as salt. Not sticky at all, more like sand.
*The 4-FA was taken after a return to baseline from the MDAI.*
T+:00 - After an allergy test, I insufflated 50mg to start. I DO NOT RECOMMEND DOING THIS! I have put all sorts of nasty shit through my nose in copious amounts. This was easily the worst overall sensation. Burned on par with 4-MMC at it's worst but less than 2c-b. Faded fairly quickly as well, within 3 minutes. The taste was awful, similar to the 'cherry' cleaning paste the dentist uses to grind at your teeth, if it were expired for a year or so. There was an immediate stimulation, similar to tooting adderall without having to wait. I decided I never wanted to toot 4-FA again and capped up 125mg and ate it.
T+:20 - Feeling very nice. Awake but not jittery or anxious. A growing warm feeling throughout my body accompanied by euphoria and a desire to do something, PS3/conversation/smoke/etc but not in a negative sense or out of boredom.
T+:30 - Full effects now. Strong, but not overpowering euphoria, closeness to others but not forced empathy. It is somewhat like a a speedy pill, but not overpoweringly amped up. It is almost as if you combined the more introspective, clear thought, feel of MDA with the excited, talkative aspects of MDMA. I very much like the way this feels. It feels... right, if that makes sense. Clean might be the description I am looking for. It comes very close to MDA/MDMA without over doing it or forgetting entire facets of that high. This state was maintained at the same level without re-dosing for hours.
T+4:00 - Dissipation in entactogenic effects. Though still stimulate and in a generally pleasant mood. Interested to see what the amphetamine end of this experience will be like.
T+5:00 - Awake, but not uncomfortable so. No jitters or tweakachu feel. Would be difficult to sleep without a sedative, similar to the late stages of an MDMA come down. This state lasts for an hour or two more, at which point sleep becomes a possibility. There was no fiending with this which was a surprise. There was a desire to try and regain the entactogenic part by re-dosing, but this was easily curbed by not wanting accentuate the stimulant effects which seems like the likely outcome.
GF - This one is her favorite of what we received in our order. Initial 150mg oral dose followed by another 150mg oral at the one hour mark. Couch locked. Felt as if she had taken a speedy pill. Intoxicated feeling, trouble walking straight lines. Euphoria and eye wiggles. Re-dosed at the 3 hour mark with another 150mg oral dose in an attempt to increase the effects even further. Attempt was extremely successful. A qualitative report on the experience from the 5 hour mark on is not possible as bk-MBDB was taken which negated the comedown.
GP1: - Started with 150mg oral dose followed by a 200mg oral dose at the 1 hour mark. Similar effects as my reports. Felt like a slightly speedy pill. There was a noticeable increase in his conversation rate as well as an increased propensity to completely lose track of what he was talking about. Maintained this state for 5 hours before going home. No comments on the comedown available.
GP2: - Started with an oral dose of 200mg. Started to have stomach pains and a headache but remained lucid. Did not report any positive effects as, if they were present, they had been overwhelmed by the negative. Spent some time in the bathroom vomiting. Felt better after vomiting, but still had a headache that was progressing to migraine level. Remained lucid throughout and insisted that it wasn't necessary to take him to the hospital. Rested in the other room for a while (I was checking in on him every 5-10 minutes or so). Took some migraine meds that he had stashed away which successfully killed it. Seemed no worse for wear and was able to drive home around the 5-6 hour mark.
We are not sure what caused this reaction in him. He has never had an issue with stims previously, and no one else reported any negative reactions. It should be noted that the stomach issues were not nausea, but pain. This leads me to believe that there was some chemical reaction taking place that wascausing the stomach issues. Perhaps an ulcer? He was also drinking Vitamin Water, which is not a regular part of his diet. My experience with VW/Gatorade/Powerade is that they make me vomit almost immediately because my stomach is not used to them or the electrolytes and other contents they contain. Another possibility is that the stomach issues were part of the oncoming migraine. Need to do some more research into negative reactions to 4-FA.
Conclusion: With the exception of GP2, this chem was very well received. The general consensus was that this was the closest sensation to MDMA that had been encountered to date with the added benefit of having a 4-5 entactogenic peak before tapering off to a comfortably stimulated phase. Would do well at a club or other setting but doesn't necessitate activity. In lower, single doses it had a clarity about it that would be beneficial if taken in more public settings.
Dose Recommendations: Depending on tolerance to similar chems, a starting dose of 150-250mg taken orally seems right. If re-dosing is desired, it is likely advisable to do so within the first 3 hours of the experience, before the MDMA like effects fade. Full re-dose seems to compound the intoxicating effects. I will be doing some more trials on boosting in the coming week and will update with the results. I imagine that doing 50% booster doses would be effective at maintaining the peak, although that is just speculation.
This is a very promising chem in that it effectively mimics MDMA at similar doses (again, keeping tolerance in mind, average starting dose of MDMA is 200mg). What is unique about this compared to others that are out there is it's duration of entactogenic effects. It lasts longer than bk-MDMA and 4-MMC and lacks the affinity for Dopamine that they exhibit, making it smooth, without fiendiness and altogether more satisfied with the experience.
Duration: - Full effects achieved in 30-45 minutes. Peak effects lasting 2-5 hours depending on dose. Come down seems to be 2+ hours but likely increases with dose.
bk-MBDB: Fucking fantastic! I had no expectations going into this, it was ordered on a whim to just put another one on the list of tried chems. I will definitely be acquiring more as it is the closest I have come to MDMA. I am the only one from the group who has done this one without other chems influencing the effects.
T+:00 - After an allergy test, I decided to take an oral dose of 150mg to start.
T+:30 - Effects have begun, slow come on with thus, not really a rush like MDMA. There is a warming sensation throughout me, yawn a number of times and feel the need to stretch. This concerns me slightly as this is a typical response of mine to tryptamines just before the first tangible effects. I can feel an edge to it, similar to drinking a 5 hour energy shot. Not tweakachu feeling and lacking any sort of direction. I think the speculations are spot on regarding this chems affinity for norepinephrine activity. I do not get the anxiety and nervousness that others seem to get on this chem, IMO it is an issue of breakthrough dose level not being achieved.
T+1:00 - I am feeling very good at this point. There is stimulation but I am content to sit on the couch and have conversations with friends. Euphoria is definitely present, but not overpowering. Decide to take another 250mg oral dose. My choice of 250mg was based on experience with bk-MDMA. I find bk-MDMA annoying and un-enjoyable if I do not take 400mg to begin, at which point it yields that magical, rushy, MDMA like experience. It seems logical that I would require a similar threshold with bk-MBDB.
T+1:45 - I look around the room and suddenly realized I am really fucked up. When did that happen? There was no rush or instance when it 'hit', I just seemed to look up from my lap top and take note of it. I have mild visual distortion similar to MDA accompanied by nystagmus. The feeling is perfect. This is exactly what I have been looking for for. I feel intense euphoria and growing empathy and desire to be close to people. I take a moment to text a friend who is at a campout to see how her experience is going. My heart rate is elevated, but not significantly so, and it is not overly strong or weak. I could not measure it precisely as I kept losing concentration or count... If you confused me enough, you could convince me I had eaten MDMA/MDA. My state is elevated even more by the thought of actually having a viable replacement. I keep myself in check though, as I remember the same feeling with 4-MMCand bk-MDMA only to be disappointed by duration and the compulsive re-dosing.
T+3:30 - No discernible change in my status. I feel rolled the fuck out, no two ways about it. There doesn't seem to be an imminent decrease, and I have not had any desire to do more. I can't believe I have never come across this chem before and I am amazed that more people haven't tried it as a (in the US) legally acquirable substitute to MDMA.
T+5:00 - I am feeling a slight decrease in 'intoxication' effects now. Mostly in regards to the nystagmus and concentration issues. The emotional state and overall body/tactile sensations are still very strong. At this point I start to let myself believe that this is the substitute I was looking for. The duration has is great and the fiending is not there. To be honest, with my MDMA tolerance, in order to achieve peak effects of this duration on MDMA, I would have likely re-dosed every hour to one and a half hours with small boosters to maintain.
T+6:00 - Effects are starting to dissipate, but at a reasonable rate. I think of taking some more to see if a return to full effects is possible but decide to wait a bit. I think about this and note that if it were most other stims, I would not have waited.
T+6:30 - Closer to baseline, but still quite affected. I decide to re-dose with 250mg oral. Hoping to see if I can get back up, or if it will end up being like bk-MDMA and just get fiendy and drawn out for days.
T+7:00 - I am surprised to find myself right back were I was if not even higher than before... With almost any other chem, that late of a redose would necessitate a stronger dose than the initial amount. Granted my initial amount was only 150mg, but at this point I have tied the second dose to the initial as it seems safe to say this chem does not dissipate as quickly and can be compounded even with a significant delay. How long will this last take me up for?
T+8:30 - Still feeling excellent but have noticed a decline in effects. They seem to be dropping quicker than before but still at a tolerable easy rate. This is better than I could have hoped for. I am getting tired, physically and mentally, but it is a satisfied tired.
T+9:00 - Effects have dropped to the same level as T+6:30. Decide to experiment a bit with a 150mg oral dose. The last one had me above my initial peak, and I am curious to see what a good maintenance amount is.
T+9:30 - That is about what I was looking for! Seems I found the maintenance dose... Try and ride this out now and see where it goes. I am fearful that the amount consumed will have me awake for hours and hours.
T+10:30 - Approaching baseline, feeling quite tired but not able to get to sleep just yet. That is no problem, at least not yet. I never really had a desire to redose after the last 150mg. I don't think this is very active on Dopamine. It has to be on some level, but not nearly as much as 4-MMC and bk-MDMA. Not even close. I have had my share of fiendish multi-day binges on both of those, but this doesn't have that same kick, I couldn't keep doing this for days...
T+12:00ish - I fell asleep somewhere around here. Sleep was deep. No dreams that I remember. I woke up groggy, but overall I felt good. I didn't feel like I was hit by a freight train and, even better, I didn't feel like my fucking nose was going explode or just fall off due to abuse. THANK GOD.
Conclusion: I love it. If I could have my tolerance and product quality from 8 years ago, I still choose MDMA. But, given the cost, quality and scarcity of MDMA, as well as my tolerance with it, this stuff is more effective, feels identical and requires less to achieve a longer length of experience. It is smooth, which is something that is good and bad. Nothing beats that MDMA rush, but it has a tendency to be overwhelming and often nauseating. The comedown off this is so smooth and drawn out that if you dont pay attention, you may not notice it is happening. No fiending for more, and if you do want to get back up, it seems effective with small amounts even at late points in the experience. I love it.
Comparison to bk-MDMA and 4-MMC: There is only one reason I would choose these two over bk-MBDB... If I were addicted to a primarily dopaminergic substance. If you love coke, meth, 4-MMC or anything else that has that strong dopamine push, this probably is not going to give you what you want. It doesn't make me fiend for that dopamine reward and the slow decline of the effects takes away the 'I want it back!', compulsive re-dosing behavior that I exhibit with the short duration of entactogenic effects from bk-MDMA and 4-MMC. And, the ultimate kicker (for me at least) is that it remains legal in my state where the other two have just been placed Schedule I by the state (not the US Fed) government.
Dose Recommendations: Start with 200-400mg oral dose based on tolerance and recent activity with similar chems. Ride it out from there. It lasts a good while and it seems to be easily boosted with significantly smaller amounts even late in the trip. Don't insufflate. Seems similar to bk-MDMA where the speedier aspects are emphasized and the overall efficacy decreased with nasal administration.
Duration: Onset in 30-60 minutes. Very quiet come up, no rush at all. Peak seems to last 4-6 hours depending on dose. This can easily be lengthened with small boosters. Comedown is 1-3 hours and happens slowly with no crash and no fiending for more. Provided dosing doesn't become excessive, it seems to allow sleep with little trouble within a few hours of the last dose administered. This could change with excessive redosing and dosing with large amounts late in the experience.
Combinations: It seems that when 4-FA and bk-MBDB are combined, they work to accentuate the speediness of each other with no tangible additions to the entactogenic effects. It also seems that the combination leads to a longer duration of after effects which keep the user from getting to sleep. I personally did not find them a worthwhile combination as they are both rather effective on their own. Their ability to combine with other chems of recent popularity will not be investigated by me as I find them to both be far superior (for my purposes) to any other readily available chems.
MDAI seems to be an excellent initial dose compliment to the 4-FA, giving it more empathy than it would have on its own without adding to the speedy aspects. It seems that adding MDAI early on in the bk-MBDB experience would be wasteful as the desired effects were achieved without it. Obtaining sufficient dopamine release seems the likely cause of the threshold that is found in both, making it no more efficient to combine them. However, using MDAI as the booster instead of more bk-MBDB could allow for a return to peak effects, without adding to any speediness that one might be feeling.
MDAI seems like it could help increase the duration of 4-MMC and bk-MDMA. I have begun to suspect that the incredible positive experiences I had with a chem a while back was this combination (MDAI/4-MMC) as nothing else fits quite right.
Hope this answers some questions. I know it's lengthy and a good chunk of it is not even about bk-MBDB, but, there is no such thing as being too informed, IMO. Keep in mind that doses listed in here were very carefully thought about, calculated and decided upon after significant research into each and the way they operate. Don't assume this to be what you need, and approach any new chem with caution and respect. Always allergy test, it will save your life or someone else's. And try to keep in mind that you don't need to snort every white powder that exists. Sometimes it's just better to eat it... Essentially, don't be an idiot.
My usage history: LSD, DOC, Mushies, DMT, adderal, opium and script opiates, benzos, 4MMC/MEC/FMC, MDPV, K, MXE, 2C-b/I/E/t-2/t-7, Bromodragonfly, 4-aco-DMT/MIPT, 5/6 APB, Methylone. COPIOUS amounts of MDMA/MDA over past 9 years.
I no longer smoke weed and I drink heavily on occasion. I prefer stims (particularly the more serotenergic ones) to psychedelics and love the combo of the two. I tend to have one 24ish hour experience on stims every week. Recently it has been a hodgepodge of different things in an attempt to find a suitable MDMA/MDA substitute since there hasn't been shit in my area since February, molly or pressed...
Tolerance: Generally speaking, due to regular use and 8 years of 5+ rolls every other weekend, I have a tolerance to stims that makes it necessary to start with a stronger dose than most people. I do take necessary precautions with new chems and never try something without researching it first. I consider myself a regular, heavy user of narcotics, but I do not feel it to be excessive. I have no addiction other than nicotine and the usage does not interfere with my 'real' life.
MDAI: Meh. This was acquired because of previous experience with 'MDAI' that had lead me to believe it was a suitable sub for MDMA. The previous experience was clearly not MDAI (mixture of MMC and MDAI seems most likely at this point). The powder was a very fine crystal that made it sparkle like a bag of glitter. Somewhat clumpy but not sticky. Color is an off white/grey color.
T+:00 - After an allergy tests, I insufflated 50mg to start.
T+:20 - Insuf. another 100mg
T+:40 - Insuf. another 100mg. At this level I felt almost no stimulation. Mood elevation to be sure but no more than could be attained by just thinking happy thoughts...
T+2:00 - Baseline
GF: followed the same timeline, but did oral doses at 150mg instead of insufflating b/c of discomfort from the initial 50mg. Similar results, mood lift but no stimulation.
GP1: Arrived after initial dosing and played catch up with a 150mg oral dose followed with another 150mg oral dose 20 min later. Similar results, nothing special.
GP2: Arrived after GP1 and, based on our experiences, chose to eat 200mg to start. After 1 hour and a return to complete baseline, he chose to try again with a 300mg oral dose. Some mild stimulation and definite mood elevation but nothing remarkable. Baseline within 2 hours of 300mg dose.
GP3: Arrived much later. Chose to do an 400mg oral dose in the name of science to see if there was a threshold amount. Successful (confirmed by mysef since). Led to a mellow, MDA like experience that was almost sedating. Euphoria present and some visual distortion. Empathy, though not forceful. Clear headed and very chatty. Re-dose with 400mg at the 2 hour mark increased effects past initial levels, duration was extended more than peak effects strengthened. Did not give qualitative account of comedown as 4-FA was taken late in the experience which negated the comedown.
Conclusion: Good, uplifting chem for chilling. Would not be worthwhile for going out, IMO as, even at high doses, it lacks a strong stimulant push.
Dose Recommendation: 250-450mg oral depending on tolerance and desired effects. Not worth tooting.
Duration Full effects around 30 minutes. Peak of 2-4 hours. Easy, quick comedown in about 45 minutes.
4-FA: Excellent chem! Very fine, granular texture and white as salt. Not sticky at all, more like sand.
*The 4-FA was taken after a return to baseline from the MDAI.*
T+:00 - After an allergy test, I insufflated 50mg to start. I DO NOT RECOMMEND DOING THIS! I have put all sorts of nasty shit through my nose in copious amounts. This was easily the worst overall sensation. Burned on par with 4-MMC at it's worst but less than 2c-b. Faded fairly quickly as well, within 3 minutes. The taste was awful, similar to the 'cherry' cleaning paste the dentist uses to grind at your teeth, if it were expired for a year or so. There was an immediate stimulation, similar to tooting adderall without having to wait. I decided I never wanted to toot 4-FA again and capped up 125mg and ate it.
T+:20 - Feeling very nice. Awake but not jittery or anxious. A growing warm feeling throughout my body accompanied by euphoria and a desire to do something, PS3/conversation/smoke/etc but not in a negative sense or out of boredom.
T+:30 - Full effects now. Strong, but not overpowering euphoria, closeness to others but not forced empathy. It is somewhat like a a speedy pill, but not overpoweringly amped up. It is almost as if you combined the more introspective, clear thought, feel of MDA with the excited, talkative aspects of MDMA. I very much like the way this feels. It feels... right, if that makes sense. Clean might be the description I am looking for. It comes very close to MDA/MDMA without over doing it or forgetting entire facets of that high. This state was maintained at the same level without re-dosing for hours.
T+4:00 - Dissipation in entactogenic effects. Though still stimulate and in a generally pleasant mood. Interested to see what the amphetamine end of this experience will be like.
T+5:00 - Awake, but not uncomfortable so. No jitters or tweakachu feel. Would be difficult to sleep without a sedative, similar to the late stages of an MDMA come down. This state lasts for an hour or two more, at which point sleep becomes a possibility. There was no fiending with this which was a surprise. There was a desire to try and regain the entactogenic part by re-dosing, but this was easily curbed by not wanting accentuate the stimulant effects which seems like the likely outcome.
GF - This one is her favorite of what we received in our order. Initial 150mg oral dose followed by another 150mg oral at the one hour mark. Couch locked. Felt as if she had taken a speedy pill. Intoxicated feeling, trouble walking straight lines. Euphoria and eye wiggles. Re-dosed at the 3 hour mark with another 150mg oral dose in an attempt to increase the effects even further. Attempt was extremely successful. A qualitative report on the experience from the 5 hour mark on is not possible as bk-MBDB was taken which negated the comedown.
GP1: - Started with 150mg oral dose followed by a 200mg oral dose at the 1 hour mark. Similar effects as my reports. Felt like a slightly speedy pill. There was a noticeable increase in his conversation rate as well as an increased propensity to completely lose track of what he was talking about. Maintained this state for 5 hours before going home. No comments on the comedown available.
GP2: - Started with an oral dose of 200mg. Started to have stomach pains and a headache but remained lucid. Did not report any positive effects as, if they were present, they had been overwhelmed by the negative. Spent some time in the bathroom vomiting. Felt better after vomiting, but still had a headache that was progressing to migraine level. Remained lucid throughout and insisted that it wasn't necessary to take him to the hospital. Rested in the other room for a while (I was checking in on him every 5-10 minutes or so). Took some migraine meds that he had stashed away which successfully killed it. Seemed no worse for wear and was able to drive home around the 5-6 hour mark.
We are not sure what caused this reaction in him. He has never had an issue with stims previously, and no one else reported any negative reactions. It should be noted that the stomach issues were not nausea, but pain. This leads me to believe that there was some chemical reaction taking place that wascausing the stomach issues. Perhaps an ulcer? He was also drinking Vitamin Water, which is not a regular part of his diet. My experience with VW/Gatorade/Powerade is that they make me vomit almost immediately because my stomach is not used to them or the electrolytes and other contents they contain. Another possibility is that the stomach issues were part of the oncoming migraine. Need to do some more research into negative reactions to 4-FA.
Conclusion: With the exception of GP2, this chem was very well received. The general consensus was that this was the closest sensation to MDMA that had been encountered to date with the added benefit of having a 4-5 entactogenic peak before tapering off to a comfortably stimulated phase. Would do well at a club or other setting but doesn't necessitate activity. In lower, single doses it had a clarity about it that would be beneficial if taken in more public settings.
Dose Recommendations: Depending on tolerance to similar chems, a starting dose of 150-250mg taken orally seems right. If re-dosing is desired, it is likely advisable to do so within the first 3 hours of the experience, before the MDMA like effects fade. Full re-dose seems to compound the intoxicating effects. I will be doing some more trials on boosting in the coming week and will update with the results. I imagine that doing 50% booster doses would be effective at maintaining the peak, although that is just speculation.
This is a very promising chem in that it effectively mimics MDMA at similar doses (again, keeping tolerance in mind, average starting dose of MDMA is 200mg). What is unique about this compared to others that are out there is it's duration of entactogenic effects. It lasts longer than bk-MDMA and 4-MMC and lacks the affinity for Dopamine that they exhibit, making it smooth, without fiendiness and altogether more satisfied with the experience.
Duration: - Full effects achieved in 30-45 minutes. Peak effects lasting 2-5 hours depending on dose. Come down seems to be 2+ hours but likely increases with dose.
bk-MBDB: Fucking fantastic! I had no expectations going into this, it was ordered on a whim to just put another one on the list of tried chems. I will definitely be acquiring more as it is the closest I have come to MDMA. I am the only one from the group who has done this one without other chems influencing the effects.
T+:00 - After an allergy test, I decided to take an oral dose of 150mg to start.
T+:30 - Effects have begun, slow come on with thus, not really a rush like MDMA. There is a warming sensation throughout me, yawn a number of times and feel the need to stretch. This concerns me slightly as this is a typical response of mine to tryptamines just before the first tangible effects. I can feel an edge to it, similar to drinking a 5 hour energy shot. Not tweakachu feeling and lacking any sort of direction. I think the speculations are spot on regarding this chems affinity for norepinephrine activity. I do not get the anxiety and nervousness that others seem to get on this chem, IMO it is an issue of breakthrough dose level not being achieved.
T+1:00 - I am feeling very good at this point. There is stimulation but I am content to sit on the couch and have conversations with friends. Euphoria is definitely present, but not overpowering. Decide to take another 250mg oral dose. My choice of 250mg was based on experience with bk-MDMA. I find bk-MDMA annoying and un-enjoyable if I do not take 400mg to begin, at which point it yields that magical, rushy, MDMA like experience. It seems logical that I would require a similar threshold with bk-MBDB.
T+1:45 - I look around the room and suddenly realized I am really fucked up. When did that happen? There was no rush or instance when it 'hit', I just seemed to look up from my lap top and take note of it. I have mild visual distortion similar to MDA accompanied by nystagmus. The feeling is perfect. This is exactly what I have been looking for for. I feel intense euphoria and growing empathy and desire to be close to people. I take a moment to text a friend who is at a campout to see how her experience is going. My heart rate is elevated, but not significantly so, and it is not overly strong or weak. I could not measure it precisely as I kept losing concentration or count... If you confused me enough, you could convince me I had eaten MDMA/MDA. My state is elevated even more by the thought of actually having a viable replacement. I keep myself in check though, as I remember the same feeling with 4-MMCand bk-MDMA only to be disappointed by duration and the compulsive re-dosing.
T+3:30 - No discernible change in my status. I feel rolled the fuck out, no two ways about it. There doesn't seem to be an imminent decrease, and I have not had any desire to do more. I can't believe I have never come across this chem before and I am amazed that more people haven't tried it as a (in the US) legally acquirable substitute to MDMA.
T+5:00 - I am feeling a slight decrease in 'intoxication' effects now. Mostly in regards to the nystagmus and concentration issues. The emotional state and overall body/tactile sensations are still very strong. At this point I start to let myself believe that this is the substitute I was looking for. The duration has is great and the fiending is not there. To be honest, with my MDMA tolerance, in order to achieve peak effects of this duration on MDMA, I would have likely re-dosed every hour to one and a half hours with small boosters to maintain.
T+6:00 - Effects are starting to dissipate, but at a reasonable rate. I think of taking some more to see if a return to full effects is possible but decide to wait a bit. I think about this and note that if it were most other stims, I would not have waited.
T+6:30 - Closer to baseline, but still quite affected. I decide to re-dose with 250mg oral. Hoping to see if I can get back up, or if it will end up being like bk-MDMA and just get fiendy and drawn out for days.
T+7:00 - I am surprised to find myself right back were I was if not even higher than before... With almost any other chem, that late of a redose would necessitate a stronger dose than the initial amount. Granted my initial amount was only 150mg, but at this point I have tied the second dose to the initial as it seems safe to say this chem does not dissipate as quickly and can be compounded even with a significant delay. How long will this last take me up for?
T+8:30 - Still feeling excellent but have noticed a decline in effects. They seem to be dropping quicker than before but still at a tolerable easy rate. This is better than I could have hoped for. I am getting tired, physically and mentally, but it is a satisfied tired.
T+9:00 - Effects have dropped to the same level as T+6:30. Decide to experiment a bit with a 150mg oral dose. The last one had me above my initial peak, and I am curious to see what a good maintenance amount is.
T+9:30 - That is about what I was looking for! Seems I found the maintenance dose... Try and ride this out now and see where it goes. I am fearful that the amount consumed will have me awake for hours and hours.
T+10:30 - Approaching baseline, feeling quite tired but not able to get to sleep just yet. That is no problem, at least not yet. I never really had a desire to redose after the last 150mg. I don't think this is very active on Dopamine. It has to be on some level, but not nearly as much as 4-MMC and bk-MDMA. Not even close. I have had my share of fiendish multi-day binges on both of those, but this doesn't have that same kick, I couldn't keep doing this for days...
T+12:00ish - I fell asleep somewhere around here. Sleep was deep. No dreams that I remember. I woke up groggy, but overall I felt good. I didn't feel like I was hit by a freight train and, even better, I didn't feel like my fucking nose was going explode or just fall off due to abuse. THANK GOD.
Conclusion: I love it. If I could have my tolerance and product quality from 8 years ago, I still choose MDMA. But, given the cost, quality and scarcity of MDMA, as well as my tolerance with it, this stuff is more effective, feels identical and requires less to achieve a longer length of experience. It is smooth, which is something that is good and bad. Nothing beats that MDMA rush, but it has a tendency to be overwhelming and often nauseating. The comedown off this is so smooth and drawn out that if you dont pay attention, you may not notice it is happening. No fiending for more, and if you do want to get back up, it seems effective with small amounts even at late points in the experience. I love it.
Comparison to bk-MDMA and 4-MMC: There is only one reason I would choose these two over bk-MBDB... If I were addicted to a primarily dopaminergic substance. If you love coke, meth, 4-MMC or anything else that has that strong dopamine push, this probably is not going to give you what you want. It doesn't make me fiend for that dopamine reward and the slow decline of the effects takes away the 'I want it back!', compulsive re-dosing behavior that I exhibit with the short duration of entactogenic effects from bk-MDMA and 4-MMC. And, the ultimate kicker (for me at least) is that it remains legal in my state where the other two have just been placed Schedule I by the state (not the US Fed) government.
Dose Recommendations: Start with 200-400mg oral dose based on tolerance and recent activity with similar chems. Ride it out from there. It lasts a good while and it seems to be easily boosted with significantly smaller amounts even late in the trip. Don't insufflate. Seems similar to bk-MDMA where the speedier aspects are emphasized and the overall efficacy decreased with nasal administration.
Duration: Onset in 30-60 minutes. Very quiet come up, no rush at all. Peak seems to last 4-6 hours depending on dose. This can easily be lengthened with small boosters. Comedown is 1-3 hours and happens slowly with no crash and no fiending for more. Provided dosing doesn't become excessive, it seems to allow sleep with little trouble within a few hours of the last dose administered. This could change with excessive redosing and dosing with large amounts late in the experience.
Combinations: It seems that when 4-FA and bk-MBDB are combined, they work to accentuate the speediness of each other with no tangible additions to the entactogenic effects. It also seems that the combination leads to a longer duration of after effects which keep the user from getting to sleep. I personally did not find them a worthwhile combination as they are both rather effective on their own. Their ability to combine with other chems of recent popularity will not be investigated by me as I find them to both be far superior (for my purposes) to any other readily available chems.
MDAI seems to be an excellent initial dose compliment to the 4-FA, giving it more empathy than it would have on its own without adding to the speedy aspects. It seems that adding MDAI early on in the bk-MBDB experience would be wasteful as the desired effects were achieved without it. Obtaining sufficient dopamine release seems the likely cause of the threshold that is found in both, making it no more efficient to combine them. However, using MDAI as the booster instead of more bk-MBDB could allow for a return to peak effects, without adding to any speediness that one might be feeling.
MDAI seems like it could help increase the duration of 4-MMC and bk-MDMA. I have begun to suspect that the incredible positive experiences I had with a chem a while back was this combination (MDAI/4-MMC) as nothing else fits quite right.
Hope this answers some questions. I know it's lengthy and a good chunk of it is not even about bk-MBDB, but, there is no such thing as being too informed, IMO. Keep in mind that doses listed in here were very carefully thought about, calculated and decided upon after significant research into each and the way they operate. Don't assume this to be what you need, and approach any new chem with caution and respect. Always allergy test, it will save your life or someone else's. And try to keep in mind that you don't need to snort every white powder that exists. Sometimes it's just better to eat it... Essentially, don't be an idiot.
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AndroidsDreamofBTC
Bluelight Crew
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@chylldup
Thanks for the in-depth reports!
Thanks for the in-depth reports!
plusfourpirate
Bluelighter
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- Mar 21, 2010
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thats alot of powder tho,huh? over half a gram of chems. i'd much rather just eat ~150mg of mdma, maybe 50-60 more as a booster dose tops.
idk i guess if mdma were impossible to find id be willing to explore such combos but prolly in smaller amounts; 250mg M1 gives me a nice rush/roll on it's own, just doesnt last as long as MDMA.. and redosing on it is where the comedowns seem to get really shitty.
B1 just feels toxic to me id be careful w this one, let alone mixing it..
PhyllipThylamine
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- Feb 5, 2011
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Prior to the ban I got some B1 from my drone vendor for a free test. I enjoyed it okay but not as much as M1 pr meph. But I've found that people who DO like Butylone are those who also feel that meph is too pushy & Methylone is too short. My gf, for instance, doesnt like meph at all but gets on fine with small, small doses of Butylone & I in fact went out of my way to acquire more so she could use it when I had meph for an evenings Guitar Hero or DJ-ing.
4-mec seems to get a similar rep as B1. People who love/loved meph don't like 4-mec & having recently tried some I can see why. It has pretty much all the effects meph has but in much shorter more sublte ways. Once again, although I was a little dissapointed, my gf seems to get on fine with it.
The only stimmy love-drug we both dig equally, other than MDMA, is 4-fa, which when pure & good is a superb chemical!
I don't think it is personally. Butylone is euphoric but not on a 4-MMC level. Its more euphoric, speedy and empathic than 4-mec, however.
aveoturbo
Bluelighter
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- Sep 17, 2011
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B1 is awesome if you aske me!! i only took about 65mg and was feeling awesome and talking to everyone and its just really nice, and you dont have to pay for it for days on end like the crash i've had with m1, i def like me some b1
I second this motion.
Butylone has been very good to me. I much prefer it over 4-FA which was the only other stim I have taken to get a buzz.
Solipsis
Bluelight Crew
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- Mar 12, 2007
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I don't like B1, it is overstimulating too me - it has a strong 'push' feeling - the type that MDAI lacks, M1 has some of, 4-FA also some, and MDMA more... but I don't think this stimulating push is balanced by very good empathogenic effects. Instead it is easy to get overstimulated or get disproportionate residual stimulation IME.
But...I have considered it a proper option for piggybacking or using it as a primer. By that I mean to serve as a primer that provides the push, while another drug like 2C-B is added that has very little push of itself and is very easygoing. 2C-B let's you ignore it's effects compared to many other drugs. With B1 there is a flow going and it changes the whole nature of it.
Since I placed MDAI on the other end of the push-spectrum when it comes to empathogen/entactogen/stimulants it in some way makes sense to try combining them - in fact I think I once tried that and it was more or less fine (not sure if I'd call it special or particularly worth repeating or worth the risks). About risks: I mean here that MDAI should not really be mixed by dopamine releasers according to studies.
M-butylone or dibutylone etc seem like a more dirty and even less worthwhile version (and a prodrug) of B1.
And I really don't have very high hopes for pentylone.
But...I have considered it a proper option for piggybacking or using it as a primer. By that I mean to serve as a primer that provides the push, while another drug like 2C-B is added that has very little push of itself and is very easygoing. 2C-B let's you ignore it's effects compared to many other drugs. With B1 there is a flow going and it changes the whole nature of it.
Since I placed MDAI on the other end of the push-spectrum when it comes to empathogen/entactogen/stimulants it in some way makes sense to try combining them - in fact I think I once tried that and it was more or less fine (not sure if I'd call it special or particularly worth repeating or worth the risks). About risks: I mean here that MDAI should not really be mixed by dopamine releasers according to studies.
M-butylone or dibutylone etc seem like a more dirty and even less worthwhile version (and a prodrug) of B1.
And I really don't have very high hopes for pentylone.
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