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    Snorting codeine & metabolisation... 
    #1
    Bluelighter Mr Blonde's Avatar
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    Not that I'd want to snort codeine, it works just fine for me taking it orally. However, the argument against snorting that I've seen reading threads on this website is that snorting codeine doesn't work because codeine itself is a weak opiate, it needs to be metabolised in the liver into morphine. However, according to this Erowid page, the liver metabolises virtually all drugs, including the well known snortables cocaine and methamphetamine.

    My question: Why doesn't snorting codeine work (going by what people here have said) when snorting meth and coke does work? If those two are both metabolised by the liver, won't snorted codeine be as well, allowing it to be snorted with effect?

    Thanks!
     

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    #2
    When you snort chemicals they're still going through the liver. Snorting codeine is noted to be a waste because it normally contains ibuprofen or paracetamol in the tablets, and because of this, the tablets are normally pretty big, so the small amount of codeine gets lost with the huge amount of filler and APAP/Ibuprofen and probably only a very small percent will get absorbed nasally.

    I have a pretty bad natural opiate tolerance (I don't use), and I seem to need a lot of opiates to get something worthwhile from them (what others may O.D. on), so I may not of been the best person for this experiment. A few years back I snorted Army-issued Alphapharm painkillers, which were a lot smaller than most other pills with codeine in them, and I believe they were either 30 or 60mg per tablet. I reported no effects. A friend and I also tried snorting Nurofen Plus N+ sides and reported no effect, but the dosage would of been low.

    If you can get your hands on some powder codeine I'm sure you would get more effects, but it would probably only kick the drug in quicker. Then again, not all may get absorbed considering you have to still snort a fair amount of it, and a lot of it would just end up leaking to your stomach.

    I think oral just has the best bioavailability and morphine-conversion rate.


    Note: Never inject codeine. That is life-threatening.
     

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    #3
    Bluelight Crew phase_dancer's Avatar
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    First pass metabolism closely follows absorption in the stomach/ duodenum. All that's absorbed there first passes through the liver (including drugs), delivered via the hepatic artery proper and hepatic veins, collectively known as the hepatic portal system. This is a large blood vessel system that can be thought of as a 12 lane highway to and from the liver.

    While some amount of a substance absorbed nasally will be metabolised from blood carrying the drug to the liver, the majority will not be processed as quickly as with orally administered drugs. Other means of metabolism exist for many drugs that are outside of the liver, although some might pass through the liver several times before a form is made soluble enough for elimination.

    Drugs such as cocaine and meth are psychoactive without first being concerted to metabolites, although some metabolites of both drugs remain active.

    Codeine is different. It must be first converted to morphine before it binds with your favourite receptors. This is done by Cytochrome P450 2D6 enzymes which demethylates the 3-methoxy ether to produce the characteristic (di) hydroxy of morphine. 2D6 enzymes are predominately found in the liver where they are produced.

    An interesting side line; structurally speaking, heroin is closer to codeine than to morphine.
     

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    #4
    Bluelighter Mr Blonde's Avatar
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    Thanks for the reply, I'm always glad to know a bit more about how a drug functions in my body!
     

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    #5
    I also hear it can be dangerous rushing Codeine into the body as it can cause a massive histamine reaction.
     

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    #6
    Bluelighter Mr Blonde's Avatar
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    Yeah, that's Splatt was talking about when he said don't inject codeine. The histamine reaction can cause a pulmonary edema of the lungs or something like that, I'm not too sure on the spelling. Don't worry though, I took my codeine orally last night, fantastic! Also, this time I used a different brand of medicine, this one containing paracetamol rather then ibuprofen. Much easier extraction, I tell ya! And half the price for only 60mg less of codeine.
     

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    #7
    Panadeine something? There's ads for it in the mall here. It contains Paracetamol and 15mg of codeine or something right?
     

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    #8
    Bluelighter Mr Blonde's Avatar
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    The one I used last night was 'Chemist's Own' pain tablets. I looked up the one you're talking about just then when I read your post: Panadeine 15. Comes in packs of 12, 15mg's of codeine phosphate each one.
     

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    #9
    chemists own is THE way to go with CWE. its the cheapest, has 10mg per tablet instead of panadeines 8mg, and dissolves and filters the easiest out of ALL the brands iv tried, and iv tried alot.

    whats this panadeine 15? iv never seen that, mustnt be around where i live
     

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    #10
    I actually recommend Neurofen Plus. It contains 12.8mg of codeine to 500 mg of paracetamol. You can also get the bulk pack (250 tabs i think) without any prescription, dependent on which state you live in.

    AS fas as i am aware, the Panadeine is actually branded Panadeine Forte, it does have 15mg of codeine, however you must have a prescription for it. Please though, if i am wrong, correct me
     

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    #11
    Panadiene Forte is 500mg/30mg i do believe. I've found chemist's own to be th easiest at 500/10mg its about $10 for a 96 pack at el cheapo pharmacist. None of that horrible ibprofen sludge either.
     

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    #12
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    Forte = 30mg codeine and requires a prescription as a Schedule 8 drug (off memory)

    Approx. 10% of the codeine is metabolised by the cytochrome-family enzyme p450, mainly in the liver (think of it as the factory in the body for molecules). This enzyme also metabolises a range of other drugs, so please take care with interactions.

    So, if you take PO (per oral), then it goes via the liver and is metabolised into morphine -> analgesic effect.

    However, if you snort, it is absorbed at a site AFTER the liver in the normal cycling of blood as it does its round through the body. But eventually some of it will get to the liver later. Think of the cycling of the blood in relation to the liver as cars doing laps around a race track... If you miss the pits (liver) you get to them after doing another lap. Snorting misses the pits, but gets there in the end.

    Cheers,

    Fodds

    Note, some Neurofen tablets have seperate sides for the codeine and ibuprofen. If you do not want to injest one side you can split the tablet in half along the line.
     

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    #13
    panadine forte=S4, supply with out perscription illegal.
     

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    #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Fodder
    If you do not want to injest one side you can split the tablet in half along the line.
    Wat, they dont do that anymore do they?


    Quote Originally Posted by MR Candyslut
    I actually recommend Neurofen Plus. It contains 12.8mg of codeine to 500 mg of paracetamol. You can also get the bulk pack (250 tabs i think) without any prescription, dependent on which state you live in.
    N+ has 200mg ibuprofen?. I disagree with you on this one. N+ is the worst one I have ever tried. It gives the worst extraction and I have never ever gotten anything close to a clear extraction, and i used to only use N+ for a long time.


    As far as preferance goes, everyone has their own. In my expperience Panafen gives the best extraction for an ibuprofen based pill. Its the cheapest too where i live (QLD)

    ADIC have you tried panafen?
     

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    #15
    N+ can't be split anymore.

    Panadeine 15 is S3* (15/500)
    Panadeine Frote is S4** (30/500)

    Interestingly Rikodeine (11mg Dihyrdocodeine/ 10ml) is also S3

    I've found Panamax Co. (8/500) to be best as its cheap and available at all chemists unlike Chemists Own.


    *S3 is Pharmacist only (OTC)
    **S4 is Prescription only
     

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    #16
    Its worth mentioning that rikodeine contains a fair bit of sorbitol. Has anyone ever tried rikodeine? or succesfully extracted the dihydrocodeine?
     

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    #17
    Tried every day for a long time.

    Don't have more than 100ml otherwise the sorbitol will cause a laxative effect. You can drink a whole bottle without long term effects. Just a long time on the toilet. :P
     

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    #18
    A few more things about dihydrocodiene. I got the dosage wrong in Rikodiene. It has 19mg/10ml.

    Also Rikodiene is reluctantly given to people by a chemist. Only for an acute dry cough.

    If you want more than 200mg of dihydrocodiene without the laxative effect. You can legally* buy Paramol (7.8DHC/500mg) from the UK. as DHC (dihydrocodiene) is S3. It's just no company in Australia makes DHC tablets.



    *I'm not a lawyer. Don't take my advice literally
     

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    #19
    Bluelighter Mr Blonde's Avatar
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    Also, according to this thread, dihydrocodeine should be extracted in the same way as you would codeine. The only other consideration is that, according to Wikipedia, dihydrocodeine is up to 1.5 times more potent then codeine, so doses will differ.

    H-90, I have a question; what kind of tolerance did you build up using every day? And also, how long did it take for the tolerance to kick in?
     

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    #20
    DHC is 2x the strength of codeine. I personally find its 2.5x euphoric.

    My tolerance grew quickly (a month?). To the point where I wouldn't get high but just needed it to keep withdrawals away. 3 years later i'm trying to quit my codeine and DHC habit unsuccessfully.
     

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    #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by h-90
    Panadeine Frote is S4** (30/500)
    Oops, couldn't remember if it was 4 or 8... Lucky I DID remember when I sat those exams

    Yes, codeine when in combination with another substance of less than or equal to 30mg is S4. Otherwise codeine is S8 as a drug of addition. I remembered the last bit *sigh*
     

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    #22
    Im keen to try rikodeine. Say i need about 200-230mg codeine + 50mg promethazine to get where i want to be. By the judgement on here lets say DHC is twice as effective as codeine. How would i go with 200mg DHC (ie 100ml). Would the laxative effect caused be bearable? wouldnt something like imodium stop that?

    also what does it taste like haha. I have no problem jugging 700mg worth of DXM containing syrup (barely noticable nausea etc) but drinking the codeine extraction usually makes me gag. I end up with 2 shots (70ml) worth for about 16-18 pills so its conc. and it tastes shit
     

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    #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by phase_dancer
    An interesting side line; structurally speaking, heroin is closer to codeine than to morphine.
    Totally unrelated, but I believe homebake heroin was especially popular in New Zealand particularly in the 80's and is commonly synthesized from codeine obtained from CWE. However, I could be wrong - but couldn't we all?
     

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    #24
    Bluelight Crew phase_dancer's Avatar
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    ^ No, you are correct Ashley. Homebake heroin was a big problem in NZ during the 70's and 80's and from what I remember codeine used was generally sourced via OTC products. I believe it was also prevalent in Western Australia 10 or more years ago. Reports were that the widely distributed "Heroin Starter Packs" contained homebake H and a sharps kit.
     

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    #25
    Quote Originally Posted by dtasrt_lk
    Im keen to try rikodeine. Say i need about 200-230mg codeine + 50mg promethazine to get where i want to be. By the judgement on here lets say DHC is twice as effective as codeine. How would i go with 200mg DHC (ie 100ml). Would the laxative effect caused be bearable? wouldnt something like imodium stop that?

    also what does it taste like haha. I have no problem jugging 700mg worth of DXM containing syrup (barely noticable nausea etc) but drinking the codeine extraction usually makes me gag. I end up with 2 shots (70ml) worth for about 16-18 pills so its conc. and it tastes shit
    200mg of DHC is the same as 400mg of codeine. 100ml of Rikodiene contains less Sorbitol than the amount you can take in a day, you won't get a laxative effect from 100ml.

    Tastes like strawberrys.
     

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