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Phenibut - mechanism of action and alternate methods of consumption

Xorkoth

Xorkoth

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Recently I've begun investigating the relatively little-known substance commonly called phenibut. It's most often classed as a nootropic, and it bears some relation to benzodiazepines. I really enjoy its effects a lot, though it took me a little while to realize them for what they are. I find it to be an excellent mood enhancer, truly excellent, and anxiolytic, though it's not something I'd consider recreational. This is coming from someone who generally dislikes GABAergic drugs, including alcohol, GHB and its analogues, and benzos.

Generally it is taken orally. I've read about how it's almost entirely broken down in either the stomach or liver (can't remember exactly which or how at this point), and it definitely takes a long time to take effect, 3-4 hours for me. At a dose of 1 - 1.5 grams (depending on tolerance), it takes full effect in 3-4 hour hours and lingers all day, generally just improving my mood significantly and sometimes giving a little buzz. The mood lift sometimes becomes a very natural-feeling euphoria, as if I had just heard the greatest news or gotten a bonus at work or had really good sex.

My question is, does anyone know anything or speculate on any alternate forms of ingestion? There is one report on Erowid of snorting it, but it's not enough for me to try it. It claims that it's active in far, far lower doses that way, which would be nice since 1.5 grams is quite a lot. I believe the report claimed it's fully active in the range of 20mg or something. Does anyone know anything about its mechanism of action? I speculate that it might also be very effective rectally, which would be a preferrably form of ingestion over insufflation. I'm nervous to try either because I have no clue as to what kind of dose would be necessary, and having too much causes extreme sedation, dizziness, and the like.

Any speculation, discussion, or outright experience would be much appreciated. Thanks!
 
I'll speculate that no drug should be (or is) 50 times more potent when taken up your nose rather than by mouth. That 20mg report does seem sketchy.

Sorry, besides that I have nothing useful to say, never tried or heard first hand about phenibut
 
Well, try 20mg rectally :) . Rectal is more slowly absorbed than insufflated, so even if that 20mg report is accurate (I HIGHLY doubt it) then you're in the safe zone anyway.
Slowly build up your dosage till you find a nice comfortable level, then come on here and tell us all what it is as a mg/kg dosage :) . I'm really interested in this compound too :) .
 
I have tried it and my experience has been a bit different from yours. As far as I'm concerned it's a reasonably effective muscle relaxant but it doesn't do much else for me. I don't really find it euphoric at all.
I've wondered if lactamating the molecule would significantly alter absorption, but that's probably more trouble than it's worth.
 
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I dont know if this helps, but i find Piracetam is about 10 times stronger if I put it under my tougue and let is dissolve over about 5-10 minutes, compared to swallowing.
 
You mean phenibut, or do you actually mean piracetam? And for reference, I take all of my nootropics and phenibut by dissolving them in water. I'm not sure I could put them under my tongue and absorb sublingually because they taste so bad, particularly phenibut. Talk about sour!

hussness: Yeah, phenibut is weird for me. Sometimes it'll make me very euphoric and other times it's like a long-lasting benzo. Also my reaction to it has generally been more positive than most. I achieved a very strong, wonderful bliss from it once, but most of the time it's just a general mood tonic for the day, which is nonetheless quite effective.

I guess I'll have to become a guinea pig to find out what I seek. If I do, I will certainly contribute my experience to the common good.
 
do not snort this stuff!!

I had over 100+ grams sometime back and was playing around with snorting it. yuck, it really gives you that nasty hangover effect that phenibut can have, and its not any better than taking orally. trust me on this one.
 
think i read somewhere the ph of phenibut dissolved in water was around 2.5, would a little base need to be added before IMing if one were to try that?

I wonder how soluble it is, - how much you can fit in the least amount of water.
 
So, definitely, the way to go with phenibut is ordering the bulk powder instead of the capsules?
 
Um, yes, absolutely yes. Getting anything in capsules is a big waste of money. The markup per dose is quite large, even tremendous.
 
Anyone know what a reasonable dosage range is for this drug? I think the fact that it is advertized on nootropic sites tends to give the false impression that it has a ridiculously high therapeutic index (like a lot of supplements, even if they're not therapeutic). How does it compare to baclofen?
 
1-2 grams, from what i can remember, seemed to be a good healthy dose to get positive effects.
 
I speculate that it might also be very effective rectally, which would be a preferrably form of ingestion over insufflation.
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Well, it took a couple of years, but you've finally found a person who has taken Phenibut intrarectally!=D I quartered my typical dosage and plugged a gelcap and some water- for dissolving purposes. I don't believe I felt any effect at all... except for the unpleasant sensation of having a lot of chemical up my ass. I don't plan to try again, and I don't advise anyone to try either. I'll stick with oral consumption.:)
I've read about how it's almost entirely broken down in either the stomach or liver (can't remember exactly which or how at this point)
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Does anyone know which?
 
Go figure, what a terrible way to go about it. There are primers around teaching you how to administer something intrarectally.

Dissolve in water, suck it up in an oral syringe. Lube syringe, administer. Laying belly down for 20 minutes can help avoid that 'oh god, gotta shit, but not yet' feeling.
 
I know for a fact too that Xorkoth has plugged phenibut in the past with positive results (and still does as far as I know), their's a thread kicking around about it.

I tried it once with an oral syringe, but used too much solution so it ended up coming out the way it came unfortunately. I'll have to try it again with a more concentrated dose in about 1cc or so. Sure is a weird chemical, fun in doses at about a gram or less.
 
Go figure, what a terrible way to go about it. There are primers around teaching you how to administer something intrarectally.
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Are you saying my information on this substance is invalid just because of my method? I'm no intrarectal expert, but I've used the same method I described for other substances with success. Go figure nothing.:p
 
I have also plugged phenibut. It comes up much quicker (like think 30 minutes compared to 1-2 hours orally). You need about half as much as your regular oral dose (the sweetspot will vary for each person because our GABA systems are quite different sometimes).

Its a sloppy drug really. Habit forming. Withdrawals when you stop after multiple use. Joint pain with regular use. Dehydration is easy with regular multi day use. Caution is needed just like with GHB.

I plug about 500mg of it when I used it. I don't use it anymore though because it is false sense of security (like all benzos and GABAergic drugs). I prefer to be sober and deal with anxiety as it comes and perfect my coping skills than take a drug to do that work for me.

I will say this: ain't no sleep like a phenibut sleep. Well, high dose zinc+high dose melatonin approaches the deepness you get with phenibut (but not quite even!).

Just me though, ymmv.
 
I've had good luck with approximately .75 g administered rectally.
It seems to be easier to hit a recreational dose that doesn't induce nausea through rectal rather than oral administration.

ebola
 
^ that is still a large dose relative to the oral intake averages

what for you if you know does it most closely resemble in effect for what would produce same basic effect (though as you noted with sides) taken orally?
 
what for you if you know does it most closely resemble in effect for what would produce same basic effect (though as you noted with sides) taken orally?
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This is tough to answer since responses to this substance are so varied. Also, as GP noted the sweetspot will vary for each person because our GABA systems are quite different sometimes, in terms of dosage. For this reason, I don't even want to suggest a dosage; anyone experimenting with this compound should start low.

I have witnessed four different people ingest this substance.

Person A, who is quite sensitive to the hypnotic effects GABA A agonists took a lower dose (adjusted to weight) than the others. All he experienced was sedation and a desire to sleep. No "recreational" effects, or nausea was noted.

All other people took the same dosage.

Person B experienced substantial mood lift, without any depressant effects, followed hours later by violent emesis.

Person C, who often has unusual responses to drugs, experienced altered mood, mostly for the positive, and sedation. He likened the experience to a low dose of DXM. No nausea was noted, although he did have an urge to defecate.

Person D is me. I have a bizarre, inborn, insensitivity to GABA A sedatives. I have also ingested this substance many times, with a wide range of experiences. Usually it is a eugeroic, a mild mood enhancer, and an effective nootropic. I experience no sedative or depressant effects although about on in three in times, I become very sleepy many hours after ingestion. Also, about one in three times, I experience nausea and occasional emesis hours after ingestion. The other third of the time, I don't perceive any strong effect at all--food intake prior seems to be important in this regard. A prominent side effect that I usually get is a sensation I would liken to akathisia.

Persons C and D take several psychiatric medications, so those results may be atypical.

Tolerance builds very quickly (I can elaborate on time if anyone wants), and for this reason, I believe Phenibut is not abusable--even for those who enjoy the effects.

Neither I, nor the other three people I have mentioned have every tried GHB or its pro-drugs\analogues, so we cannot compare. However, although they are both GABA B agonists, GHB hits the excitatory GHB receptor, which Phenibut does not. From almost every experience report I have read, people who have tried GHB state that Phenibut is very unlike GHB is most aspects.
 
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