Weight Gain?

[Diacetylus]

do you mean you don't need to do cardio specifically if you're trying to bodybuild or just in general? also, where did you get this idea?

Well, I don't recall the OP saying he was on a typical BB regimen. Then of course, in that case cardio is crucial.

I've never really had to do extreme cardio in order to gain significant amount of muscle though.

 

[C / H]

Uprising, I don't know if anyone has addressed this to you yet, because I just skipped all of the other posts. But, to me it just sounds like you have a very fast metabolism, naturally that is... it's the case for alot of people that are smokers, who drink alot of caffeine (seriously, lay off the caffeine, you will feel much, much better if you quit coffee, or tea, or all that nasty shit, if you want a good substitute for tea or coffee, go with Chinese herbal tea, or chamomile) and who use stimulants like mdma, coke or methamphetamine in their spare time. Combine all of your vice of choice, with your naturally fast metabolism, then you possibly have a pretty fast bpm at rest.
Imagine what it reaches when you're active!

I can't emphasize this more, but if you want to gain weight, then you are going to have to completely lay off any form of stimulant. Sure, it's ok, maybe once or twice a year for a treat or special occasion, but no tweaker, or cokehead is going to gain a significant amount of muscle, or even fat by hitting the pipe every 2 days. Unfortunately, it just doesn't work like that.
Stimulant-type drugs, are by far the worst for you, if you are looking at gaining. Not to mention, extremely bad for your well-being and your heart for when you are active and doing cardio, or general lifting.

Alcohol as well. I wouldn't recommend using this shit. You can, again, occasionally, but it's obviously a better idea to steer clear. That shit will degenerate your muscle quicker than you can imagine and it tends to make you put weight on in places you don't want it to be, like your gut, or your big toe. ...

Diacetylus, I just have to say that you are right-on here, IMO. I myself have a very fast metabolism. When I first started lifting I didn't have a shit-clue about diet or even things to avoid that would hurt my gains, for that matter. I eventually realized that, through reading and trial and error, anyone who is trying to gain lean mass who has a naturally very fast metabolism, should avoid stimulants like the fucking plague! I definitely noticed an improvement in my gains when I quit smoking cigarettes and drinking coffee/tea. Plus I never use thermogenic products or aspirin.

Unfortunately, being the dumbass that I am sometimes, I went back to smoking cigs and even started dabbling with coke for a little while six months ago, and it definitely hurt my gains. Even though I was lifting *fairly* consistently, my strength went down and I lost weight. Plus, it's real easy to go back to drinking several cups of coffee to wake yourself up the next day after a night of sniffing lines.

Some guys can get away with using stim's like caffeine/cocaine/nicotine while bodybuilding, but some of us just aren't as lucky. I know this one guy who was a drug dealer, and when I first meet him, he had a big beer belly and his musculature was average at best. Then I saw him six months later, and he was jacked. I asked him if he did a cycle or something, but he said "No." He just sniffed lines and lifted alot, and he cut-up real good and put on a good deal of lean mass. Whenever I saw him at parties, he was always drinking, smoking cigs, and high on coke. I never saw him eating lots of food like I do, either. Now had that been me, I would have been cut alright, although I would have lost about 30 lbs or so and looked like skeletor.

Also, alcohol is estrogenic, and basically hurts gains for anyone who lifts. I suggest drinking once a week at most, perhaps on a Fri or Sat night. Don't go overboard, just keep it at 4-5 drinks MAX. I don't drink much anymore, but I occasionally smoke pot. The jury is still out on whether it alters test levels or not, but I will say this: smoking pot definitely increases heart rate, which in turn can 'cause your body to burn more calories. Sure you can make up for it by munching on junkfood, but if you're trying to stay fit this ain't a great idea. Once again, I suggest doing it once a week, unless you can't live without it like many people. IMO, weed is the recreational drug least likely to hurt your gains.

If you do meth or coke, you're basically sabotaging your efforts to gain mass. Ecstasy too I suppose, but once every 6 weeks or so shouldn't hurt you too badly. Oh, and forget nicotine in any form, it's deadly and guaranteed to fuck-up your gains. Just my $0.02 on the whole deal.

 

[PARooolller]

word

I definately agree with you. Have you ever seen a built tweaker? Nope. I beleive that any form of stimulant, even caffeine, will cause fat loss over long periods of time.Weight gain for us "Stick people" of the world will most likely find it relatively difficult to build lean mass or gain weight without losing alot of fat. That's how it is for me I guess, so maybe I'm just bitching. I always stress to people how important it is to just stick to the basics and EAT EAT EAT!!!! AFter two or so years of training and following a healthy lifestyle I've lost a significant amount of weight and look like a completely different person. All with the aid of calories and a whey protein supplement. I've actually gotten a lot of good advice from members of this board, and I ENVY those who can successfully use steroids.

 

[Disposition11]

^
IF your in the USA I can help you get the absolute most premium whey isolate for $6 a lbs but you gotta buy by either the pallet, or 50lbs bag. Its handsdown best whey ive ever used in my life. You can get a free 1lbs sample bag from them before you buy just so you can see how absolutely premium it is. If your in OZ or the UK I dunno jackshit. I know a good place in Canada though if your there.

Feel free to PM me the source, I can't send you PM's yet.

 

[Roy]

To deny the fact that body mass gain requires a quality diet is a joke. That I would suppose, would be why he made the face.

You assume people on this thread don't know about training. Judging by your own oversimplification of training, you yourself are the laymen in the presence of the educated.

.

Where on earth did I deny that? Dont put words in my mouth.

My point is that people worry about diet when they first are not training properly. Simple.

The world of bodybuildign is full of bullshit, amongst them, lots of dietary myths. Bodybuilders always try to find an escape to training hard, be it the newest supplement or eating rice cakes every 2 hours and 24 minutes. They worry about catabolism when they are in the first place not even creating any anablic environment with multiple leg extensions and peck decks.

I have trained in many different gyms, and struggle to find guys doing big movements and moving big weights. Yet they are the same ones downing their protein shakes in between shakes, carrying protein bars even to the toilet. Then you see mr Xman who cant even front squat his bodyweight yet takes his skinless chicken with rice every 2 hours, think "ummm, I am destined to be small, lets use steroids". And the vicious cycle begins. Seen it too many times.

The biggest guys I have ever witnessed eat a healthy diet, and many dont even care about getting 150 grams fo protein a day (despite weeighting in excess of 200 lbs at single digit bodyfat). These guys can deadlift over 500lbs, military press over 220lbs and clean and jerk 300lbs like its peanuts. And they are far from genetic freaks, they have just been training hard for long, avoiding, for the most, any easy useless routes.

That was my damn point. As for the rest of your post, please.

 

[Roy]

^That's exactly what I meant,but I have to explain this shit everyday to people and I don't feel like debating the importance of proper nutrition in bodybuilding to someone on a message board who obviously knows very little about it.Or at least I would'nt mind so much if that person were'nt so egotistical and matter of factly in their statement.

Listen puppy. Dont make assumptions based on stupidity.

For the rest, refer to the post above.

 

[sickpuppy]

"don't make assumtions based on stupidity." Nice line,did your Dad used to tell you that? No seriously,I see what your trying to say.'Training hard and properly is just as important as what you eat'.Well, on that I agree.But I think what happened is,me along with others percieved your post as saying training hard is more important than proper nutrition.Which would be total garbage. The truth is, a person could eat 10000 calories a day and not workout properly and never gain one pound of muscle.Likewise,a person could workout religeously everyday for years and have a poor diet and not gain much muscle.It's a fine,balance between the two.It's what Arnold and Mike Mentzer used to dicuss and debate for hours.It's what bodybiulding is all about.

 

[Roy]

"don't make assumtions based on stupidity." Nice line,did your Dad used to tell you that? .

No, he said to avoid posting on forums, otherwise I would be forced to explain my points to retards. And so it happened.

Damn, why am I such a rebel?

 

[Roy]

That is utter crap, and I dont care what your super heroes used to debate about. Get your average Joe and feed him excess calories, achieving over his RDI on all macro nutrients and micro nutrients as well as calories and he will gain muscle mass, considering most average Joe's are deficient in vitamins and minerals (as well as malabsorption issues). On the other hand, anybody that trains hard and eats (no matter how bad the diet is, unless he is a concentration camp victim) will gain muscle. Yeah, they wont make it to bbing comps, but they will sure look better than average joes, and many who worry about perfect diets and wimpy workouts.

And please, what is bodybuilding about? Is the original poster wanting to be a bodybuilder? or just look good and bigger? Damn, you bbers applying all your methods and principles to anyone who just wants to build bulk.

 

[Pharaoh Sphinx]

Damn, you bbers applying all your methods and principles to anyone who just wants to build bulk.

HAH I disagree totally.

One of the best things I ever was told was that wether you wanna gain 10lbs of muscle, or 50lbs of muscle, you should train, eat and sleep the same as the person whod want 50lbs, the only thing that differs is how soon the person aiming for 10lbs will switch from a gaining diet and workout to a maintaining diet and workout.


Its like your saying because you dont need to be in New York till tommorow, you should take the caravan, whereas im sayin take the fucking ferrari and then when you get to NYC sooner, you can spend all that extra time shopping around!!

He shouldnt half ass his gains, he should workout and eat as absolutely flawlessly as he can, that way he will acheive his goal sooner and have more time for other things, rather than being a douchebag who 'takes it slow' and ends up gainin 15lbs over 1 year while I gain 15lbs in 1 week.

 

[Don Luigi]

^Yeah,no supplement is gonna be better than food. Do you eat good during the week then get all fucked up on the weekend and live of booze or dope? I have a friend who does this and he's always saying "Man,i'm stuck.I can't get any bigger." Makes me wanna backhand himin the mouth.

I would glady let you backhand me in the mouth...I always complain that I eat a ton and never gain weight...I just stay scrawny and now I know why, Thanks!

 

[sickpuppy]

That is utter crap, and I dont care what your super heroes used to debate about. Get your average Joe and feed him excess calories, achieving over his RDI on all macro nutrients and micro nutrients as well as calories and he will gain muscle mass, considering most average Joe's are deficient in vitamins and minerals (as well as malabsorption issues). On the other hand, anybody that trains hard and eats (no matter how bad the diet is, unless he is a concentration camp victim) will gain muscle. Yeah, they wont make it to bbing comps, but they will sure look better than average joes, and many who worry about perfect diets and wimpy workouts.

And please, what is bodybuilding about? Is the original poster wanting to be a bodybuilder? or just look good and bigger? Damn, you bbers applying all your methods and principles to anyone who just wants to build bulk.

"Get your average Joe and feed him excess calories," Yes,it's called fat Roy. I don't think the OP was insinuating that he wanted to become a lard ass. "anybody that trains hard and eats(no matter how bad the diet is,blah,blah)will gain muscle" Very little,and it'll take forever. Why half ass it? If your gonna do something,do it correctly.It'll make it a lot easier.Or did your daddy forget to teach you that?

 

[Roy]

HAH I disagree totally.

One of the best things I ever was told was that wether you wanna gain 10lbs of muscle, or 50lbs of muscle, you should train, eat and sleep the same as the person whod want 50lbs, the only thing that differs is how soon the person aiming for 10lbs will switch from a gaining diet and workout to a maintaining diet and workout.


Its like your saying because you dont need to be in New York till tommorow, you should take the caravan, whereas im sayin take the fucking ferrari and then when you get to NYC sooner, you can spend all that extra time shopping around!!

He shouldnt half ass his gains, he should workout and eat as absolutely flawlessly as he can, that way he will acheive his goal sooner and have more time for other things, rather than being a douchebag who 'takes it slow' and ends up gainin 15lbs over 1 year while I gain 15lbs in 1 week.

What I wanted to say with that is that for building a good looking physique and/or bulking up, there is no need to apply bodybuilding methods. Go to any regional olympic lifting, powerlifting and/or strongman competition. Look at the guys in the weightclasses and you will, for the most part, see big guys who look good (except superheavy weight class). Yeah, if you want to have biceps the size of your neck and thighs 1.5 times the size of your calves, then use bodybuilding, because that what it is for. But if you just want to look good in the beach (and be strong), my advice is lots of heavy compound movements, eating slightly over maintenance, with a nutrient dense diet.

And about the gains that you mention, 15lbs of muscle in a year is a very good achievement for the natural trainee. Do you actually know how much 15lbs of muscle is? Have you ever eaten 4 pounds of beef in one sitting? I can tell you it looks big.

 

[Roy]

"Get your average Joe and feed him excess calories," Yes,it's called fat Roy. I don't think the OP was insinuating that he wanted to become a lard ass. "anybody that trains hard and eats(no matter how bad the diet is,blah,blah)will gain muscle" Very little,and it'll take forever. Why half ass it? If your gonna do something,do it correctly.It'll make it a lot easier.Or did your daddy forget to teach you that?

Puppy, you are funny, but not as in ha-ha funny.

Listen. Whatever. You are not worth my time. You obviously only know how to stick things in your glutes, and by "things" I mean "other than pins".

 

[BigBenn]

^^^
everyone please thank Roy for getting the thread closed

Oh I guess you can't thank him because the THREAD IS CLOSED.

I hate closing threads, but this is going no where. If anyone has any further questions open a new thread, and dont take it down this path.

I know what you are gonna say roy... "buy everyone else was arguing too".
and I would say yes you are correct, but you crossed the line between arguing points and flaming with your glute comment. And no, I didn't think it was funny nor original.