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    amphetamine in europe, "base" going "bad" etc. questions 
    #1
    Ok in Europe, amphetamine is sold.. powders, or this sticky gooey "base".

    This "base" gooey shit, is this typically amphetamine freebase (mixed with whatever else)? And why do people say it "goes bad"? Like, "stick it in the freezer or it will go bad"? wtf? Are these just myths, if this amphetamine is "wet" can't you just let it evaporate (even if its in freebase form)?

    My main question is just that, does amphetamine "base", this gooey shit "go bad"? or are people just stupid and the only reason it "goes bad" is because the water evaporates and ....it weighs less?

    Also about salts of amph., if its "base" and it is the freebase, could one tell by dissolving it in a non-polar solvent (toluene etc)? Would amphetamine sulfate not dissolve (or maybe some impurities would drop out of solution? but the amph would dissolve - maybe with help from a little heat?).

    I've also heard of amphetamine HCl, as being gooey shit, I think I read somewhere that amph. HCl does not crystallize so of course is not an appropriate salt to make (unlike sulfate, phosphate), ..do they really sell amph. HCl, a gooey...substance or maybe its just really the freebase?

    ....stupid drug dealers... ahh....

    Anyway, if SWIM's friends uncle's dog were to obtain some "base" is the dog able to dry it/evaporate it and not have it "go bad" like everyone and their mother seems to say?

    Thanks
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    #2
    Bluelight Crew 7zark7's Avatar
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    As far as I know, speed and base are Amphetamine Sulphate.

    Base is just mxed with water (and whatever) to make it gooey and, as you say, make it weigh more. If you leave it out of the freezer, the water just evapourates and it turns into somthing a hard block that resembles white chalk. From there it can be broken up and crushed into powder. It certainly doesn't go bad!

    Speed is uaully just the power but with more cutting agent added.
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    #3
    Bluelight Crew morninggloryseed's Avatar
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    Amphetamine base is a caustic oil. Doubtful that is what is being sold. Amphetamine is a very stable molecule...should not go "bad."
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    #4
    Bluelighter crOOk's Avatar
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    Aaah, thanks for the info. It's weird. Everyone here in Europe is saying how
    their amp would go bad if you don't keep it in the freezer. That's why they all do keep it there. I wonder how this myth evolved...

    So basically, no matter if it's amphetamine freebase or sulphate salt, phosphorate, hydrochloride (in case that even crystallizes?) or whatever other salt, it will not degrade when kept at room temperature for a few weeks?
    Wtf? How does a legend like this develope??

    crOOk
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    #5
    Bluelight Crew fastandbulbous's Avatar
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    How does a legend like this develope??
    Dealers making shit up generally makes for a lot of stupid myths. If it's amphetamine hydrochloride, it has a tendancy to absorb moisture from the atmosphere - enough to make it perm. damp, but I don't think that's what's in 'base' as amphetamine hydrochloride is soluble in ethanol & isopropanol, but if you wash 'base' with isopropanol, it doesn't just dissolve in the alcohol. That leads to the conclusion that it's either amphetamine sulphate (most likely) or amphetamine phosphate. The goeeyness might well be due to using a sugar other than glucose as a cut - fructose (fruit sugar) is another chemical that absorbs moisture from the atmosphere.

    Either way, I've found that leaving it in an airing cupboard, or washing it with anhydrous isopropanol produces a dry white powder every time (I generally go for the alcohol wash as it also removes impurities from the synthesis - the stuff that makes it smell like piss or mouse cages - if you're going to alter your body chemistry, you might as well avoid as many impurities as possible)
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    #6
    it has been well documented in the forensic literature that UK siezed amphetamine, almost invariably the sulphate salt degrades over time. it is suspected the reason for it is the prescence of small amounts of free sulphuric acid, mainly due to incompetent chemists. it usaully takes months but eventually goes dark. I have no idea what the reaction product is. washing with isopropanol or better recrystalising it removes the free sulphuric acid. pharmaceutical amphetamine sulphate is stable for years.
    keeping it in the freezer slows the reaction.
    v
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    #7
    Bluelight Crew fastandbulbous's Avatar
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    Any free sulphuric acid isn't going to do anything to amphetamine base (or amphetamine salts such as the sulphate) - the main degredation reaction when sulphuric acid is involved is dehydration and as amphetamine doesn't contain any oxygen in it's structure, there's not a lot it can do (it could dehydrate any sugar used to cut the amphetamine with though to carbon by removal of the water from the carbohydrate - that would account for why it goes dark). As such, I can't see the actual amphetamine sulphate being subject to any chemical change at all, only associated cuts. Ephedrine, on the other hand (as well as pseudoephedrine and all the nor-ephedrine isomers) contains an oxygen atom & is capable of dehydration to the aforementioned dimethylphenylaziridine
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    #8
    must be the cuts that change, although some interesting things happen to TMA-2 sulphate over time, which doen't occur with the HCL salt, dont think sulpuric acid can cleave phenyl ethers....I agree that amphetamine as a salt is not going to be affected by h2SO4, street base is not even close to pure,
    as an aside I never did figure out why a salt was called base, even if it was freebase it would rapidly react with CO2 from the air to form a carbonate salt.
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    #9
    f&b - does the anhydrous isopropyl alcohol wash remove other impurities possibly?

    So amph. sulfate isn't soluble in isopropanol.. well the stuff I have is this white powder, seems pretty impure, as I ate about 200mg then another 300mg couple hours after and it feels maybe like 40-50mg pure amph. The white powder doesn't burn when snorted, so whatever it is it would be nice if there was a way to get rid of it, but doesn't matter i guess you just have to take a massive dose .

    (its not that "base" stuff its another cheap white powder)
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    #10
    Bluelight Crew 7zark7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by crOOk
    How does a legend like this develope??
    As F&B says - it's the dealers. I reckon they tell you to keep it in the freezer so the water doesn't evapourate and you don't realize that the ounce bag of base you just bought actually contains half an ounce of water!
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    #11
    I can only think of sulfuric acid reacting with amphetamine to the sulfonic acid,but this usually requires heat in non activated aromats.
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    #12
    Bluelight Crew fastandbulbous's Avatar
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    f&b - does the anhydrous isopropyl alcohol wash remove other impurities possibly?
    It'll remove most sugars (the most common cut) if you use enough, but it's pretty wasteful of isopropanol. If you want a much purer product, after giving it a uick wash with isopropanol to remove unreacted contaminants, the best thing to do is to make a saturated soln with very hot water, then just leave it to cool. After about 8 hours you'll see lots of rosettes of needle shaped crystals form in the liquid. Once you've reached this stage, you pour off the remaining liquid (don't throw it away as it'll still contain some amphetamine sulphate in solution), wash the crystals with a bit more isopropanol and then leave to dry. I used to do this on a regular basis back in the days when I was a lot more antisocial in my amphetamine use (ie making up sterile solutions for IM administration).
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    #13
    i've had amphetamine base (the gooey stuff) From my experience it didnt go bad it just melted a bit(left it in my pocket) its hard to scrape out of the bag when its melted, so thats why people freeze it
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    #14
    The problem is that most don´t go for the clean amph kick anymore, but they ask for the mindbending, nose-etching, vein-scoring madness of unclean.

    But to be true it´s not new. Already 15 years ago a half cut sold better then the pure stuff if the cut was done right. In special to so called "experienced users". Ha!
    Last edited by fishinabottle; 26-06-2006 at 07:59.
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    Paste shelf life and info needed :) 
    #15
    I see the people here have good knowledge of amphetamines and information on them,
    So if someone could help me on a couple of questions i would be very thankfull.

    Ok i have had my fair share of amphets over the years in many different forms... i started taking speed in wraps many years ago untill "base" or "paste" hit the market, well i soppose it was always there it was just cut down by dealers, so i soppose one day one dealer said to himself.... "why should i have a big bulk of stuff when i can make the same money off it and only have a fraction of the drug around" Anyway it was always strong stuff and only cut maybe 3 - 1 with glucose but none the less a half gram would have you feeling like god for a good ten hours. But over the last year or so with all this mephadrone and legal shit paste is virtualy impossible to get and this brings me to the questions..... recently a guy i know approached me with what he said was the best paste he ever had and claimed he knows the guy making it saying that a kilo would cost 3.500 euro but the chemist only made one batch of ten kilos and would never be making it again (yes i know this sounds like a dealer rush trick to get you to buy and then the limited batch mysteriously turns into an unlimited batch, but i know this guy well and he wouldnt lie about it) and a couple remain now. So he gave me a gram to test it out, it was a light yellow colour with a concistancy of bluetack or playdoe and had the strongest chemical type smell iv ever had off paste ... but it wasent that cats piss smell or ammonia, it was something differnt but i cant explain it. anyway as with all testing with products you do as small a dose as you can and if that works then your onto a winner. I done a bit about half the size of a match head thinking that if i got even a tingle off that then its good and also gave tiny bits to 4 of my mates who were there at the time.... within about 15 minutes i didnt get a tingle i got a massive rush followed by what i can explaine to be the strongest high i have ever got and my friends all the same, i couldnt believe the strenght of this stuff, we talked more shite than 50 ricky lake shows put together and this single gram has us all up for that nigh straight through till the following night. So yes this is definatly worth investing into, and i know a dealer who would take it but i have heard that paste or base goes off and a kilo would take a long time to move.... If anybody could give me detailed information on maybe even turning it into salt form or even if thats possible or basicly give me advise as to this being a good or bad idea for my friend.... thanx
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    #16
    Bluelighter crOOk's Avatar
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    godamn trolls lol
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    #17
    will the isopropyl alcohol also remove the caffeine?


    90% Speed in Spain contains caffeine (you can find streetwork analyses results on page: 3
    http://www.ailaket.com/documentos/20...3-analisis.pdf)

    Normally I clean speed first with acetone, to remove all the odour, colour and solvents.
    Then I wash with isopropyl.

    Now i'm triyng to Cristalize it, with the F&B method.

    But it is difficult to me know when the water solution is saturated. How can I know certanly that the solution is saturated?


    PD: After this step I will vaporize the cristals with Isopopyl again and wipe it up, and do the same with acetone.
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    #18
    if it is yellow & smells it can't be pure.



    after cleaning it with iso and metanol it turns light rosed, and after cleaning with acetone it turns cristal white.
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    #19
    the purest batches of amphetamine that I took, there was nearly no smell on it.
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    #20
    Bluelighter
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    the last lot i saw was a white sticky crystaline paste that stank of petrol or ether or ammonia or somewhere inbetween, and basically came in a disgusting format, literlally a sticky oily paste. I got a couple of g's of it as it was cheap-ish, and to try it, but havent touched it yet.

    What would be the best way to prepare that, and or consume it? (Bearing in mind I am not into injecting stuff)
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    #21
    It's not just europe, here in the states the rumor is that ice goes bad after a week. Of course the same people say it's made with gun blueing and charcoal and string (not synth talk because it's utter nonsense) and even that it isn't really meth but a fungus!?!?! BTW why is speed in europe usually amphetamine rather than meth like here?
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    #22
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    IIRC, PPA is more available as a precursor in Europe (not p2p though, right?), while 'chemists' in the US are relegated to pseudoephedrine.

    ebola

    Getting high? RTFM: Bluelight Drug FAQs | Bluelight WIKI
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    #23
    ^^That was what I was wondering, didn't want to phrase it so it came off as a synth question.
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    #24
    Bluelighter homeydontplaythat's Avatar
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    yeah, i had the same question. why just amp in europe and methamp in the US? ppa is the precursor for amphetamine?
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    #25
    Quote Originally Posted by homeydontplaythat View Post
    yeah, i had the same question. why just amp in europe and methamp in the US? ppa is the precursor for amphetamine?
    Yes. Same process that yields meth from pseudo gives amphetamine from PPA (the shir that used to be in dexatrim).
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