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    The Pineal Gland, LSD and Serotonin 
    #1
    Ex-Bluelighter streetsurfer's Avatar
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    Anyone with opinions on this article? Interesting to say the least......unless its bullshit then....hmmm

    http://www.serendipity.li/mcclay/pineal.html#a1.4
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    #2
    Anybody who thinks the pineal gland is a spiritual center is going to be talking bullshit when they talk about physiology.
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    #3
    The Pineal Gland ( the supposed center of DMT release), is almost literally your third eye, in some animals it has a retina,lense,etc. I have a theory that the brain is a physical manifestation of the consciousness (soul,spirit,w/e u wanna call it). My more important theory is that the Pineal Gland is the door of the brain, it lets consciousness in at birth, and releases it at death. Remember its just a theory but id love to get feedback from both the scientific community and the new age/whatever community
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    #4
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    Physiologically, the gland produces melatonin from 5HT via N-acetylation (arylalkylamine N-acetyltransferase) followed by O-methylation (acetylserotonin N-methyltransferase). It also produces a rather potent antioxidant beta-carboline known as Pinoline - 6-Methoxy-1,2,3,4-tetrahydro-9H-pyrido[3,4-b]indole from the melatonin metabolite N-Acetyl-N-formyl-5-methoxykynurenamine.

    As for DMT; has it been conclusively proven that DMT is principally released from the Pineal? Neither aromatic-L-amino-acid decarboxylase and Indolethylamine N-methyltransferase are exlcusive to the Pineal gland, so potentially, DMT can be produced virtually wherever there's tryptophan. Obviously other factors come into play, but why is it thought - from evidence, not hear say - that the near-death thing is predominantly the work of the Pineal gland?

    Work by V.S. Ramachandran involving specific magnetic stimuli to the temporal lobe regions can mimic some of the effects of psychoactive tryptamines - but only in some people. The below paper speculates that such stimuli result in the release of endogenous tryptamines or metabolites, but, if true, do these emanate from the pineal gland, or are these compounds formed elsewhere?

    Application of transcerebral, weak (1 microT) complex magnetic fields and mystical experiences: are they generated by field-induced dimethyltryptamine release from the pineal organ?
    Hill DR, Persinger MA.

    Laurentian University, Sudbury, Ontario, Canada.

    During the last 15 years weak, complex magnetic fields have been applied across the two cerebral hemispheres at the level of the temporoparietal lobes of more than 500 volunteers. Most of these subjects have reported visual, vestibular, and proprioceptive sensations as well as experiences of detachment from the body of 'sentient beings'. Similar but more intense experiences were reported by Strassman in 2001 for volunteers who were injected with N,n-dimethyltryptamine, a compound Strassman hypothesized as the primary mediator of these experiences. If this speculation is valid, then subjects who are exposed to the very weak, complex fields known to elicit similar experiences should display significant increases in the metabolites of this compound within their blood.
    Ramachandran demonstrated that these fields can cause a simulated temporal lobe seizure in some people where upon a religious epiphany is experienced by about 80% of the population. So, is there then any proven connection between temporal lobe seizure and pineal production of DMT, bufotenine or 5-MeO-DMT?


    The retina like cells in some non-mammals are likely to be because of a foramen that has been found in the skulls of some early vertebrates. Sorry to burst your bubble but I think it's merely an evolutionary leftover. And if that's the case, then maybe we should start thinking of the appendix as a door to another world. that's physiologically verifiable, but I guess it's just too dark and messy a world to hold any spiritual significance
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    #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by phase_dancer View Post
    Physiologically, the gland produces melatonin from 5HT via N-acetylation (arylalkylamine N-acetyltransferase) followed by O-methylation (acetylserotonin N-methyltransferase). It also produces a rather potent antioxidant beta-carboline known as Pinoline - 6-Methoxy-1,2,3,4-tetrahydro-9H-pyrido[3,4-b]indole from the melatonin metabolite N-Acetyl-N-formyl-5-methoxykynurenamine.

    As for DMT; has it been conclusively proven that DMT is principally released from the Pineal? Neither aromatic-L-amino-acid decarboxylase and Indolethylamine N-methyltransferase are exlcusive to the Pineal gland, so potentially, DMT can be produced virtually wherever there's tryptophan. Obviously other factors come into play, but why is it thought - from evidence, not hear say - that the near-death thing is predominantly the work of the Pineal gland?

    Work by V.S. Ramachandran involving specific magnetic stimuli to the temporal lobe regions can mimic some of the effects of psychoactive tryptamines - but only in some people. The below paper speculates that such stimuli result in the release of endogenous tryptamines or metabolites, but, if true, do these emanate from the pineal gland, or are these compounds formed elsewhere?



    Ramachandran demonstrated that these fields can cause a simulated temporal lobe seizure in some people where upon a religious epiphany is experienced by about 80% of the population. So, is there then any proven connection between temporal lobe seizure and pineal production of DMT, bufotenine or 5-MeO-DMT?


    The retina like cells in some non-mammals are likely to be because of a foramen that has been found in the skulls of some early vertebrates. Sorry to burst your bubble but I think it's merely an evolutionary leftover. And if that's the case, then maybe we should start thinking of the appendix as a door to another world. that's physiologically verifiable, but I guess it's just too dark and messy a world to hold any spiritual significance
    religious epihanies are also a possible side effect from temporal lobe epillepsy. my freinds dad has it and is extremely religious though this was not always the case
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    #6
    sheer politic-ing imo
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    #7
    I've been in near death experiences before, and I've tripped on DMT before. The two were completely different. When people talk about DMT and "near death experiences", they just went into shock... but to them it sounds cooler to say "I had a near death experience and tripped out on DMT" so they just say that instead
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    #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpunkySkunk347 View Post
    I've been in near death experiences before, and I've tripped on DMT before. The two were completely different. When people talk about DMT and "near death experiences", they just went into shock... but to them it sounds cooler to say "I had a near death experience and tripped out on DMT" so they just say that instead
    Just because your experiences on DMT were different than your near-death experiences doesn't mean that everybody must have the same types of experiences as you did.

    It is entirely conceivable that some people might have similar near-death and DMT experiences. In fact, read Strassman for multiple reports of "near-death experiences on DMT".

    Not that I don't accept your experiences as valid, but I just think that there are other valid experiences out there as well. You seem to be generalizing your personal experiences to other people too broadly.
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    #9
    Quote Originally Posted by slimvictor View Post
    Just because your experiences on DMT were different than your near-death experiences doesn't mean that everybody must have the same types of experiences as you did.

    It is entirely conceivable that some people might have similar near-death and DMT experiences. In fact, read Strassman for multiple reports of "near-death experiences on DMT".

    Not that I don't accept your experiences as valid, but I just think that there are other valid experiences out there as well. You seem to be generalizing your personal experiences to other people too broadly.
    Just because the idea sounds cool that your brain releases DMT before you die, doesn't mean that its true. First of all, there is no way that this could have worked its way into evolution, because if an organism is about to die, then the trait would have no benefit to natural selection.

    Unless of course you are assuming some crazy made up theory like "Jesus put the DMT there in our brains so that we could have an out of body experience before dying and our soul could go to heaven" or something ridiculous like that.

    In fact, what we would expect from natural selection, is that some sort of "last resort save your life" chemical would be released - oh wait, I think it's called epinephrine, and this is exactly what happens in a near death experience. It is beneficial through natural selection for their to be a MASSIVE EPINEPHRINE RELEASE when death is impending in the body's last attempt to stay alive.
    Last edited by SpunkySkunk347; 02-06-2009 at 13:24.
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    #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpunkySkunk347 View Post
    ...Unless of course you are assuming some crazy made up theory like "Jesus put the DMT there in our brains so that we could have an out of body experience before dying and our soul could go to heaven" or something ridiculous like that.....
    I'm not assuming any theory here.
    I am just counting other people's experiences as valid, too.
    You can read written reports where people claim to have had near-death experiences on DMT, and they describe the experiences in great detail.
    I would be pretty silly to disregard all of that because you can't find the appropriate theory to fit it!
    Let's look at what the data tell us before trying to develop a theory, shall we?
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