Completed [GBR] Long-term effects of ketamine use

huw

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Apr 24, 2006
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Hi there. I’m conducting a study on behalf of University College London (with funding from the Economic and Social Research Council - www.esrc.ac.uk) into the long-term effects of ketamine use. Specifically, I am looking at the effect it may (or may not) have on memory and various thought processes together with mood, as assessed by various questionnaires and computer based tasks. I have finished recruiting for my ketamine users groups now, and am now looking for people who used to use ketamine but have now stopped, so I can try and tell whether any patterns/effects that are present in current ketamine users are permanent or if they go away when people stop using the drug.

Specifically then, I am looking for:

People who used to do ketamine on a regular basis (i.e. at least once every 3 weeks) for a period of 9 months of longer, but who have since given up and not used it for at least 6 months. They can, however, still use any other drug(s).

The study requires you to visit us in Central London and is non-invasive (in that we don't make you take anything nor do we take blood samples) but we do take a urine and hair sample. The computer tasks and questionnaires take most people a little over three hours to complete in total and you are paid £35 (we cannot cover travel costs though). We also ask that you return in about 10 months to repeat the process. Payment is increased to around £65 for this follow up stage to act as an incentive for you to come back!

Naturally, this study is highly confidential, and participation is treated accordingly.

If you think you might be suitable, or have any questions, please feel free to email me at [email protected]

Regards

Huw Rees
Psychopharmacology Unit
University College London
 
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this is a little misleading, I was expecting 'money to take k and fall over' research.

Ah well...

More power to you though, I'd love to know more about ketamine and nitrous interaction (isoflurane etc) stuff if you ever do any of that.
 
Rasclatt said:
hair sample?

Duck Racer has asked me about this too. We take samples to test levels of drug use, so we can get an idea of how our participants vary in drug use patterns. We test for Cannabinoids, Cocaine, Amphetamines, Opiates, Phencyclidine and Ketamine. These samples are destroyed once tested, and are labelled with a numbered code, so they are never stored with any personal details.
 
When I read the Title I thought my dreams had come true ... paid to take ketamine :\
 
Paying £35 for someone who lives outside london is extremely tight of you, don't you think ?? Say someone from yorkshire were to attend, it'd cost them to actually take part ! I'd have thought that you would have a reciprocal agreement with other universities to give a greater geographical spread of *test centres*, surely couldn't be that hard ??












zophen (ketamine hater, acid lover)
 
^True. Would love to take part but it'd cost me 60 quid to get down there. Did 1-3g of K nearly every day between june and november last year and had been using every week before then. Now I have sworn off it, hence the moniker 'Empty Geegee' (although partly inspired by the soul-robbing ennui that follows such use).
I can save you the trouble and give you the conclusion now if you want? It fucks you up!
 
Some heavy abuse there mate, did you just do it that often for the sake of it cuz you wanted to get fucked up or was you addicted in some way?
 
I think this is a worthwhile study and anyone in the london area who fits the criteria should try to make it and help out.

Good luck with the work Huw :)
 
TheSpade said:
was you addicted in some way?
Aye, I reckon! It is a weird one. I use do use it recreationally and have some great experiences. Then...I dunno...ended up living in a squat with 5 other K-heads. It changes over time...probably something to do with reward centres and dopamine or something. Oh and it has to be THE most rapid tolerance building drug there is. You start of at 100mg and in the end a half gram line just makes you feel a bit spacey!
Pretty much every one I knew down there was addicted to it as well; a massive wave of K abuse kind of swept over everyone I knew. Bear in mind groups of us were buying half-litres at about 200 quid, so it was dirt cheap. Even so, to give you an idea of how addictive it is, a group of people actually sent someone on a 'sponsor run' during a drought. ie. they paid for someones holiday to india! I'd say its a pretty odd psychedelic, and the phillie-t parody was pretty accurate actually! Ho-hum..\ want some now actually...I do love K!
 
Thats some crazy shit, I never thought of Ket being an addictive drug really but I guess anything can be.

Loving the fact they sent someone to India, that's funny as fuck.
 
zophen said:
Paying £35 for someone who lives outside london is extremely tight of you, don't you think ?? Say someone from yorkshire were to attend, it'd cost them to actually take part ! I'd have thought that you would have a reciprocal agreement with other universities to give a greater geographical spread of *test centres*, surely couldn't be that hard ??

zophen (ketamine hater, acid lover)

We would love to be able to pay more, to test further afield and cover people's travel costs. However, it all comes down to funding (or a lack of). We are testing around 250 people, and once we've paid each of them the £100 or so we're already eating a lot of our budget. We also have to purchase equipment (laptop equipment, software licenses) and the aforementioned samples testing isn't cheap. Further to that, the wages of those of us working on this project also comes out of our funding grant...

Greater co-operation between Universities would indeed give greater scope, but unfortunately it's something that just doesn't happen much. Bureaucracy, the problems of working on projects with people in different cities, and a lack of time or interest in the work you are doing on the part of people working in other universities all contribute to this avenue not being pursued as often as it perhaps should.
 
andythetwig said:
you could try posting on squatjuice as well.


although you will defo get gunned down on there!!!!!!


but it does have its fair share of ket-monkey's :d
 
It's a shame you didnt ask for current users on here - you would have had lots of willing volunteers. I'd love to know what the detrimental effects of ketamine use might be - I'm always being asked by people whether regular k usage has any negative long term consequence, and I awlays have to answer "I'm just not sure"

Huw, I'm interested to know what your personal opinion on negative long term consequences is?

(And PLEASE people, if he expresses an overly negative opinion of ketamine, don't start flaming him, ok?)
 
specialspack said:
Huw, I'm interested to know what your personal opinion on negative long term consequences is?

(And PLEASE people, if he expresses an overly negative opinion of ketamine, don't start flaming him, ok?)


Well, I'll tentatively have a go at answering this, but there will be some thinking on my feet, as I am not entirely sure myself. From my work with users, I can report what I see in their tests and what they tell me. Firstly, from their test results, there does seem to be some memory impairments in current users (in comparison to both individuals who use no drugs and those who use drugs other than ketamine). This isn't entirely surprising, as ketamine acts on a part of the brain - the hippocampus - which is strongly associated with memory. Whether these impairments are long standing, I couldn't say (and is part of the motivation for the current study). Quite often, people we test would have used ketamine in the last week or so, so you could argue they were still experiencing some sort of after effects. I would imagine though, as with a lot of these things, those who have used in moderation would be unlikely to suffer any permanent after effects.

Now, secondly, and perhaps along a more contentious line, is ketamine's link to schizotypal behaviour. That is, behaviour similar to that of a schizophrenic. It has been noted that some of the acute symptoms of ketamine - what it's like when you have just used it - mirror certain aspects of schizophrenia. Think of the difficultly in forming clear thoughts, the way perception of time can change, how your body can feel 'alien'. Now, some people have suggested that this is because ketamine can trigger abnormal activities of a chemical called glutamate in the brain, and some people think that schizophrenics also display this activity, but on a more 24/7 level. Just to emphasise, I am not suggesting any direct link to schizophrenia, I am merely saying ketamine temporarily causes the brain to act in a way which shares some aspects. Now, with continued prolonged and heavy use, I personally don't think it would be entirely unreasonable to suggest that maybe these glutamate levels get a little out of synch even when ketamine hasn't just been used. This might lead to an increase in schizotypal behaviour - paranoia, detachment from reality, difficulty in forming thoughts - even when an individual is not on the drug. Again, let me emphasise, I am not saying they would have schizophrenia, but they might display behaviour of a similar nature, if not degree. Oh, and also let me emphasise that again I think it would take substantial use to trigger such changes. But, much of this is speculation and much more work needs to be done. Ketamine hasn't really been a 'fashionable' drug to study in the past, so there isn't a ton of research out there yet.

Now, as for what people have told me. One of the recurring things people say to me - especially the heavy end users, or former heavy users - is just what a powerful grip it can take on their lives and those of their friends and how surprised they were by this with hindsight. Often they say they feel it isn't a drug taken very seriously - perhaps due to its price - and yet it was one which really became a significant aspect of their lives: many had had contact with the so-called 'hard' drugs, yet it was ketamine which really took hold of them. But, on the other hand, I have also spoken to plenty of people who just use it occasionally for fun, and just use it when they fancy something a bit different to pills.

Secondly, people report a series of physical complaints. Obviously there is the nasal issue, but people also report stomach/kidney/liver problems (kidney stones for example). Some have even voiced concern that they are worried they might be becoming tolerant of all anesthetics as a result of their ketamine use, and are worried what this would mean if they needed a medical procedure. I'm not clued up on that side though, so couldn't really say. Finally, people also report that due to the anesthetic effects, they sometimes have endangered themselves or injured themselves as they cannot feel pain so clearly, and also that they potentially place themselves in vulnerable positions (not so much a 'long term' effect).

Well, I've gone on long enough now! I think generally there are issues relating to ketamine which apply to all drugs: treat it with respect, keep a tab on how big a role it seems to be taking in your life, take a break if you suspect you need to.
 
huw said:
Well, I'll tentatively have a go at answering this, but there will be some thinking on my feet, as I am not entirely sure myself. From my work with users, I can report what I see in their tests and what they tell me. Firstly, from their test results, there does seem to be some memory impairments in current users (in comparison to both individuals who use no drugs and those who use drugs other than ketamine). This isn't entirely surprising, as ketamine acts on a part of the brain - the hippocampus - which is strongly associated with memory. Whether these impairments are long standing, I couldn't say (and is part of the motivation for the current study). Quite often, people we test would have used ketamine in the last week or so, so you could argue they were still experiencing some sort of after effects. I would imagine though, as with a lot of these things, those who have used in moderation would be unlikely to suffer any permanent after effects.

Now, secondly, and perhaps along a more contentious line, is ketamine's link to schizotypal behaviour. That is, behaviour similar to that of a schizophrenic. It has been noted that some of the acute symptoms of ketamine - what it's like when you have just used it - mirror certain aspects of schizophrenia. Think of the difficultly in forming clear thoughts, the way perception of time can change, how your body can feel 'alien'. Now, some people have suggested that this is because ketamine can trigger abnormal activities of a chemical called glutamate in the brain, and some people think that schizophrenics also display this activity, but on a more 24/7 level. Just to emphasise, I am not suggesting any direct link to schizophrenia, I am merely saying ketamine temporarily causes the brain to act in a way which shares some aspects. Now, with continued prolonged and heavy use, I personally don't think it would be entirely unreasonable to suggest that maybe these glutamate levels get a little out of synch even when ketamine hasn't just been used. This might lead to an increase in schizotypal behaviour - paranoia, detachment from reality, difficulty in forming thoughts - even when an individual is not on the drug. Again, let me emphasise, I am not saying they would have schizophrenia, but they might display behaviour of a similar nature, if not degree. Oh, and also let me emphasise that again I think it would take substantial use to trigger such changes. But, much of this is speculation and much more work needs to be done. Ketamine hasn't really been a 'fashionable' drug to study in the past, so there isn't a ton of research out there yet.

Now, as for what people have told me. One of the recurring things people say to me - especially the heavy end users, or former heavy users - is just what a powerful grip it can take on their lives and those of their friends and how surprised they were by this with hindsight. Often they say they feel it isn't a drug taken very seriously - perhaps due to its price - and yet it was one which really became a significant aspect of their lives: many had had contact with the so-called 'hard' drugs, yet it was ketamine which really took hold of them. But, on the other hand, I have also spoken to plenty of people who just use it occasionally for fun, and just use it when they fancy something a bit different to pills.

Very interesting, especially on the return of psychomimetic views to psychedelic science with respect to ketamine. I've heard this mentioned elswhere, in Basel at the LSD symposium - I think Vollenweider and co might have mentioned it?

Personally, twice in the past, I have had very confusing schizophrenic -feeling experiences, where is seemed to separate into two distinct portions. It was fascinating, but somewhat unnerving. This was quite disticnt to the usual full dissociation I have experienced many times.

Another controversial question, and I realise I'm probably stepping over the line here, so please feel free to not answer- what sort of dosage and frequency would produce significant short term (and possibly long term?) memory deficiencies?

I know pulling numbers out of the air is very unscientific - but do you think there could be significant effects from dosing small amounts once daily (eg couple of lines)?

I understand if you think you can't comment.
 
What is a "schizophrenia type feeling" tho special? I've got a very close friend who is schizophrenic and the way he describes schizophrenia is about as far from any drug experience as it's possible to get.
 
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