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    china white - heroin or fentanyl 
    #1
    I've read that china white is a nickname for fentanyl.

    But, wasn't china white a nickname for pure heroin before fentanyl was made?

    So when was fentanyl made, and was "china white" terminology used before it?


    a buddy and i were debating this...
     

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    #2
    Bluelight Crew sonic's Avatar
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    You can debate all you want over slang but you'll never get anywhere. You could be right, who knows?
     

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    #3
    Ex-Bluelighter blahblahblahblah's Avatar
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    But, wasn't china white a nickname for pure heroin before fentanyl was made?
    You are 100% correct

    Heroin #4 China White. Heroin in it purest form.

    China White" is the term given (BEFORE fentanyl was even first synthesized in the Netherlands in the mid-1960s) to so-called "No. 4 heroin" refined in southeast Asia. And it is the queen of dope, Alpha-methyl-fentanyl is the most common form of the fentanyl (which is distantly related to demerol) that has found it's way on the streets. And, yeah, it was touted by the losers who were dealing it as "China White," but that's as close as it came to the real thing. Definitely, there are plenty of folks selling Fentanyl as real China White, since most junkies haven't had china White, they can't tell the difference for sure..
    Fentanyl - "heroin without the soul" No scratching, but no profound dreams either and it's pretty shortlasting. Plus it's so damned potent that if someone fucks up the cut, it's absurdly easy to take a hotshot. You usually know that there's a big batch of alpha-methyl-fentanyl on the street because you see news stories about big clusters of ODs. In my book, there's no real substitute for God's Own Medicine--and that ain't something that comes from a test tube but from the honest old poppy!

    Fentanyl did NOT have the quality of Euphoria associated with China -- China White feels like Heroin, perfect Heroin...To me, Fentanyl felt like a very powerful synthetic imitation of China White, but the organic smack warmth was missing---This might sound blasphemous, but Fentanyl was like Heroin without a Soul.....I'm not sure if there's a Santa Claus, BUT there is a "China White"
    And BRY dangers of Heroin itself arent to great, it is one of the safest drugs around. BUT what comes along with heroin is addiction, which can lead to Hep C, collaped veins, irregualar menstual cycles, reduced sex drive, overdose, death. Heroin is the safest drug and the most deadly

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Fentanyl has been hitting Chicago streets quite often lately considering the very few documented out breaks. We have had two in 5 months or so.

    bluelight in the media forum post
    Seedless fentanyl info
     

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    #4
    Quote Originally Posted by blahblahblahblah
    You are 100% correct

    Heroin #4 China White. Heroin in it purest form.

    Fentanyl has been hitting Chicago streets quite often lately considering the very few documented out breaks. We have had two in 5 months or so.
    but blah - google "fentanyl china-white" or whatever and the internet seems to be leaning towards my buddies point'o'view...

    so maybe.. i'm say 80% right? since SO many people have called fentanyl china white i give a small portion of acurateness to my buddy

    p.s. what dumbfuck would improperly cut the fentanyl? There has been nary a batch of LSD in decades and decades that was overpowering by incorrect measurements.

    [edit] s0nic - the man blah knows the answer
     

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    #5
    Ex-Bluelighter blahblahblahblah's Avatar
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    madskills thats because there is alot of mis information out there.

    Sure lots of ppl refer to china white as fentanyl, but half those ppl dont know wtf they are talking about. China White was a nickname for strong #4 heroin, before fentanyl was even around.

    Slang: Oh I picked up a couple bags of China, its supposed to be some fentanyl analog. Reality: I picked up some heroin and dont know what I am talking about.

    China is a nickname for fentanyl but good luck scoring a bag of China White that is actually fentanyl. There have been what 5-10 cases in the last 2 decades of fentanyl being passed of as heroin.

    What do you mean your 80% right?
     

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    #6
    Bluelight Crew fastandbulbous's Avatar
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    p.s. what dumbfuck would improperly cut the fentanyl?
    With something as potent as alpha-methylfentanyl it's not just a case of adding a certain amount of the drug to a lot more inert compound. You get crystals of alphamethylfentanyl that look microscopic but are large enough to cause several people to OD. For that reason, you have to take a solution of alphamethylfentanyl citrate and add it drop by drop to a continiously moving container with the inert substance inside (it has to keep moving to ensure that the droplet of soln is distributed/soaked across as much material as possible, thereby preventing areas of high concentration). At the same time, you have to slowly evaporate the solvent to ensure that the inert carrier doesnt become soggy and clump together (another way to get a dangerously high concentration). They usually use something like a rotary evaporator for the first stage of cutting/ evenly diluting the alphamethylfentanyl.

    So you see, it doesn't require a 'dumbfuck' to make a balls up with the alphamethylfentanyl, just someone who isn't aware of things like dispersal properties of powders in powders and liquid in powders
     

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    #7
    Bluelighter pkt's Avatar
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    China white is a term for white heroin....any "white china" you buy isnt going to be extremely pure anyway..i've seen the stuff in SEA and mind you it was much more potent then the white #4 we get in my home country but it was still far from the purity many people believe it has but it's just a name, any kind of white heroin can be called china white...
     

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    #8
    response to blah - well.. i guess putting the percentage of correctness was pretty silly.. i was just punting some credit his way because it is ahem "well known" that fentanyl is china white


    response to fantandbulbous - hmm well even so good sir, who in the heck would have a line on absolutely pure alpha-methylfentanyl without being handed down/running into the knowledge of how to properly cut it? Cutting it properly i would guess isn't half as difficult as synthesizing it.. I suppose maybe it's just because the people who make it just want to get their money and they don't give a fuck how many people in tennesee or wherever go to an early grave..
     

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    #9
    Quote Originally Posted by blahblahblahblah
    Fentanyl did NOT have the quality of Euphoria associated with China -- China White feels like Heroin, perfect Heroin...To me, Fentanyl felt like a very powerful synthetic imitation of China White, but the organic smack warmth was missing---This might sound blasphemous, but Fentanyl was like Heroin without a Soul.....
    Does fentanyl bind to opiate receptors differently to heroin? Is it more or less selective?

    I have pretty limited drug experience, but I find the science behind it all fascinating.
     

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    #10
    Bluelighter DexterMeth's Avatar
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    ^great question. Im not sure, but someone here does.

    Blahblahblah...thanks for the info man. "Heroin without a soul"lol, it's true. Great analogy.
    I always though of fentanyl as a "cold lean" instead of a "warm nod"
     

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    #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kobold
    Does fentanyl bind to opiate receptors differently to heroin? Is it more or less selective?

    I have pretty limited drug experience, but I find the science behind it all fascinating.

    Fentanyl is very selective at the Micro Opioid receptor whereas Heroin is still a potent Mu agonist but has greater mixed properties among other opioid receptors.

    This means fentanyl will cause a greater respiratory depressive effect verse. heroin. As well fentanyl lasts a maximum of 60 minutes, whereas heroin will take you into 5-6 hour range. The shorter duration of Fentanyl combined with its more rapid onset verse. heroin is what makes it more addicting. Compare fentanyl to the 'cocaine' of opiates, in that its short acting, comes on strong, and leaves you wanting more, quick.



    China White is a term originally developed by foreign buyers in Burma/Thailand/China/etc as a way to refer to the white south east asian heroin.
     

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    #12
    Bluelighter DexterMeth's Avatar
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    ^Mu agonization is basically what it's all about..
    heroin any day.
     

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    #13
    Quote Originally Posted by fastandbulbous
    With something as potent as alpha-methylfentanyl it's not just a case of adding a certain amount of the drug to a lot more inert compound. You get crystals of alphamethylfentanyl that look microscopic but are large enough to cause several people to OD. For that reason, you have to take a solution of alphamethylfentanyl citrate and add it drop by drop to a continiously moving container with the inert substance inside (it has to keep moving to ensure that the droplet of soln is distributed/soaked across as much material as possible, thereby preventing areas of high concentration). At the same time, you have to slowly evaporate the solvent to ensure that the inert carrier doesnt become soggy and clump together (another way to get a dangerously high concentration). They usually use something like a rotary evaporator for the first stage of cutting/ evenly diluting the alphamethylfentanyl.

    So you see, it doesn't require a 'dumbfuck' to make a balls up with the alphamethylfentanyl, just someone who isn't aware of things like dispersal properties of powders in powders and liquid in powders
    I've always wondered about stuff like this when people say most street dope is 20-40%, like how do you know you don't get one shot that's 10%, and then rig up a big shot of 60% next time and OD...

    Of course, I'll probably understand if I keep my drug usage moderate enough to stay here at uni here a few more years (3.5 so far, but it's funny how my core classes this semester are easier, but my required non-core/non-science classes are so much more of a pain in the ass)...
     

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    #14
    Thanks for the answer Sphinx.

    I think unusually high purities are often pointed to as a cause of heroin-related death. The biggest cause of heroin-related death is poly-drug use. http://www.drugwarfacts.com/heroin.htm
     

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    #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by fastandbulbous
    With something as potent as alpha-methylfentanyl it's not just a case of adding a certain amount of the drug to a lot more inert compound. You get crystals of alphamethylfentanyl that look microscopic but are large enough to cause several people to OD. For that reason, you have to take a solution of alphamethylfentanyl citrate and add it drop by drop to a continiously moving container with the inert substance inside (it has to keep moving to ensure that the droplet of soln is distributed/soaked across as much material as possible, thereby preventing areas of high concentration). At the same time, you have to slowly evaporate the solvent to ensure that the inert carrier doesnt become soggy and clump together (another way to get a dangerously high concentration). They usually use something like a rotary evaporator for the first stage of cutting/ evenly diluting the alphamethylfentanyl.

    What happens if one mag stirred for 24 hours, then evapped the solvent without stirring? Would this really cause a dangerous difference? If things 'shifted' anymore wouldnt it just be the same as them shifting in the rotary evap?
     

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    #16
    Bluelight Crew fastandbulbous's Avatar
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    ^ Big difference - how people start ODing with certain batches of fentanyl derivatives while others are OK. You've got to continually mix while evaporating the solvent to ensure thay it is evenly distributed throughout the inert powder used to cut it to a managable strength. It's when people take shortcuts at this stage (going from the pure fentanyl derivative to it being cut to approximate to the potency of heroin) that uneven distrabution occurs; that eventually translates into deaths through OD's
     

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    #17
    Bluelighter DexterMeth's Avatar
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    ^cant you just evap it any old way, then really condense the powder together, then chop/mix it up really good, recondense, then use another powder to dilute it?
     

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    #18
    Bluelight Crew fastandbulbous's Avatar
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    No - people die from getting areas where the high concentrations haven't been broken up. It has to do with things like fluid motion of powders vs granule size, density differences between substances to be mixed etc. Have a look in a book like 'Bentley's Textbook of Pharmaceutical Sciences' if you want a detailed explanation)

    Might not be important if you're talking about drugs with dosages 10mg+ (or lower - depends upon the criteria mentioned above), but when you're talking of doses in the 10's of micrograms and are fatal at doses under a mg the dispersion just isn't even enough
     

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    #19
    Bluelighter DexterMeth's Avatar
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    ^yeah that wouldnt do any good then would it. i wasn't taking into account how utterly small a single milligram of pure fent is.
    what i still dont understand is this...so what if it is soaked unevenly.. if you chopped it up really good, then mixed it into a nother batch of inert powder, then mixed that all around...how would it be uneven? well i guess its possible that more than one single grain could get stuck together and be in the same area. and if you're saying that a couple single grains can kill you...than shit.
     

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    #20
    Ex-Bluelighter blahblahblahblah's Avatar
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    I've always wondered about stuff like this when people say most street dope is 20-40%, like how do you know you don't get one shot that's 10%, and then rig up a big shot of 60% next time and OD...
    You dont know. I have seen smaller operations in effect [moving an ounce or more a day] and it was much more methodical and cautious. I have also seen some decent sized operations on accident [pulling in 10-20K a day easy] They are so frugal in their methods I can see why its so easy to catch a hot shot and turn blue. basically they had a apartment in a highrise project all that was in the room was a card table and some cheap folding chairs. I'll skip how I got in there. So there set-up was like this: They had a huge pile of powder on the table at the very least a Q to half pound, the had coffee grinders and had some what of a 'recipe' dealing mainly with the ratio's for cut per raw in several quantities. Two or three sat at the table with bandanas over their face do protect them from inhaling to much heroin dust the coffee grinded out the desired amount of heroin and ontop the amount of the cut [I didnt get to find out what the cut was as it wasnt the best environment to pry for details, it wasnt Dormin though I know that]. Than they would take regular playing cards and just keep folding the dope unto itself over and over. 'Which I am sure ensures a perfect consistency . Than the powder was scooped up and piled into a regular grocery bag [plastic] and brought to a different apartment where the actual retail processing, i.e bag it, tag it, and hurry the fuck up.

    These people dont care about a fucked cut, they live to die the next day, they dont give a flying fuck except for the almighty green machine the US hundred dollar bill. Still the consistency was always similar per other bags of the same dope. Except when they decide this is the week when the ratio's get flipped a bit and the heroin decreases and there pockets bulge even further, eventually bringing the dope up to super-duper strength again.

    I am sure their are other a bit more methodical operations but for street ghetto dope thats basically what you get. There are sick people out there that cut shit up on purpose to cause harm, or maybe there so fucking stupid they think a Atropine powder or some cat poison makes a ok cut cause they are to lazy to get off there ass and get something correct. I have some good stories about ill cut dope and the negative reactions, well I dont know if I would call them 'good' stories rather interesting stories [another time, a forgotten place].

    So yea since I know where those bags of illicit fentanyl are coming from I know the area and what I described above was a block or two away from the current selling point of the recent rash of chicago fentanyl OD's. Those motherfuckers dont care about killing someone, somebody had to be the quinne pigs. They probably gave a few bags to the resident old man dope fiend to try out and tell them what he thinks and because his tolerance is thru the roof and somewhere in the stars he got off nice and good and gave them a thumbs up.

    The first out break of Fentanyl was in August in Chicago, they let 5 months past and than broke it out again to test it out and obviously they made a mistake on there methods. So I am sure there is a large amount of illicit fentanyl lounging around somewhere in Chicago waiting to be sold. I would think since they have high contacts being able to purchase probably a kilo of fent. you would think they would have been told how careful they have to cut it. If they would just hire a smart person to correctly constitute the dope using methods that need to be used with a drug this powerful. We are talking about southside of chicago ghetto high level dope pushers, you think they even know what a 'rotary evaporator' is, or fuck even what it does.

    I am sure there have been a few successful batches sold thru out the city with no ill effects and not such a big rash of deaths let alone the media attention that highlights their operation. I am positive of that. Its just some of these gangstars dont know shit, probably picked up a quarter ounce of illicit fentanyl from a local gang connect didnt listen and fuct up the cut. I bet my bottom dollar some gang is sitting on a monster stash of illicit fentanyl eventually they will get the cut right or find the right person to do it for them. The money to be made from a kilo of fent. compared to a kilo of heroin is insanely different, and if your a dope dealer you want to maximize your profit, this is going to hurt thier operation which has been shut down and erased for now, media attention and fentanyl OD's dont mix. They have enough money to buy off anybody so they will get it right. I am figuring if their track records proceed them come summertime there will be another outbreak, unless they figure out the ratio's and correct procedure. I also bet that there is bags of heroin being sold as heroin right now in Chicago that are fentanyl cut up.

    You know or at least one with a keen sense of opiates know. When a bag gets you high as fuck acts similar to heroin and you arent even thinking it could be fentanyl so power of suggestion is not at play. Than the high wears of a bit quicker but they also have a cut in it that will produce nodding hours into the high so the fent. high is gone and your nodding from the cut. If one was familiar with a fent. rush and high you might spot it earlier. Than the give-away of knowing is the holding power of the dope. A fent. bag will hold you 8-12 hrs before sickness hits, less than half the time of a heroin bag [genrealized]. I am not taking into account a heroin addict who is pounding 2-3 bags into their arm every 3 hours you might not even notice the short holding period because your constantly high. Drug dealers are shady playing with their arsenal of cuts to mimic the effects of heroin while using fentanyl as the heroin and tricking the client.

    Theres my take on it. The dope trade in chicago goes in cycles just like any other city, except chicago is a bit more closer knit with their trade as the gangs cooperate with each other a bit better than other cities. You could write a book on the art of buying, cutting, bagging, cycling the strength of the heroin sold to retail customers, cuts, etc. its a story onto itself.
     

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    #21
    Very informative and interesting post blah blah. Thanks for sharing!

    I have a question about this part:
    "Two or three sat at the table with bandanas over their face do protect them from inhaling to much heroin dust..."

    Would they OD from this and would they get high along the way if they didn't cover their faces otherwise? How is it entering? Through their mouth?
     

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    #22
    Ex-Bluelighter blahblahblahblah's Avatar
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    I am not quite sure I didnt ask.

    The amounts they were dealing with and sitting there constantly folding the dope into itself to mix it up. I would assume there would be substanial dust to inhale enough that would cause a high for sure. As for how its entering breathing, sucked into thier nostrils or sucked into their lungs. I dont know about the possibility of an OD but these guys didnt get high anyways. I assume they were doing it for a purpose [I didnt ask, I wasnt in the position to but into their shit, as they were alrready asking the person who brought me in their why the fuck a white boy be up in here, they gave him some shit].

    There was a dusting all around them on the floor and what got me was they had a big plastic bag fulla dope and just walked out and there was a tiny hole in the bag they were leaking small amounts of dope everywhere. They didnt care, there was so much heroin and I bet I saw a 1/100 of what was holed up in that project. I also bet if I scraped the table and floor I would have had a few grams of heroin.
     

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    #23
    Ex-Bluelighter ClubbinGuido's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fastandbulbous
    ^ Big difference - how people start ODing with certain batches of fentanyl derivatives while others are OK. You've got to continually mix while evaporating the solvent to ensure thay it is evenly distributed throughout the inert powder used to cut it to a managable strength. It's when people take shortcuts at this stage (going from the pure fentanyl derivative to it being cut to approximate to the potency of heroin) that uneven distrabution occurs; that eventually translates into deaths through OD's

    Intresting. I had always wondered how people who were successfuly passing fentanyl derivitives off as heroin managed to take a drug active in such a ridiculously small amount and cut it so that it was distrubuted equally.
     

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    #24
    Ex-Bluelighter ClubbinGuido's Avatar
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    blahblahblahblah, you got some sick stories man. When your old and before you die put out a book please. Seriously.
     

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    #25
    Bluelight Crew fastandbulbous's Avatar
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    and if you're saying that a couple single grains can kill you...than shit.
    That's enough to kill a fair few people - even more if you're talking about 3-methylfentanyl or alphamethylfentanyl
     

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