Career Advice MEGA - Courses and Careers related to Drugs

Pharmacy and pharmacology are VERY different programs.

A degree in pharmacy allows you to be a pharmacist - a pharmacist is basically an encyclopedia of known information about currently existing drugs, what they treat and how, and how they interact with other drugs or conditions. Most pharmacists work directly with patients, in a pharmacy, either in a retail setting (like Walgreens, where they end up being highly paid store clerks), or in a hospital pharmacy. A few pharmacists work only "in the back", making special preparations of particular drugs, like chemotherapy treatments, that have to be prepared specially and uniquely for each patient.

Pharmacologists are researchers who investigate how drugs work in the body as a tool for developing new drugs. They do things like computer modeling of receptors and cell surfaces as a tool for finding a molecule (a potential new drug) that might interact with the receptor, and animal testing of potential drug leads, or making chemical modifications to existing drugs to increase their effectiveness or reduce their side effects. They generally work in a research laboratory for a business or university.

A pharmacist is a painter, a pharmacologist searches for new colors of paint.
 
Can only speak for UK courses, but the Pharmacy courses encompass all parts of drug synthesis, biology, etc., and indeed they usually have much higher grade requirements than studying something like Pharmaceutical Chemistry or Pharmacology. Isn't just if you want to be a pharmacist, don't let the name fool you.
From what I gathered, courses like Pharmacology are quite closely related to studying Medicine, much more biology orientated (read somewhere that 50% of people that did further education from this degree went on to study medicine). While something like Pharmaceutical Chemistry would be much more like a Chemistry degree but with some extra emphasis on biology and synthesis.
 
I'm an RN and I'm in medical school. Depending on where you live and hiring practices it might be years before you can get a permanent position or branch off in to anything more interesting than basic med/surg nursing (not that there's anything wrong with ward nursing). Curriculum will likely be either 2 years with no summers or 4 years with summers off (for a bachelors degree program). Expect to learn a decent amount of pathophysiology, anatomy, and clinical skills. You'll have class room based work and clinical placements where you can apply the knowledge your picking up. Its a pretty heavy load if you don't have solid study skills, but no where near as demanding as becoming an MD.

Workload depends on your EFT (equivalent full time) position, full time being 1.0 which is 40 hours a week. So if you work part time you can definitely take classes. Depends on what your schedule is, if you're days/nights/evenings. Wage largely depends on your union, here starting wage is low 30's an hour (full time would be about 60 grand a year gross), moving up a couple bucks or so annually, but caps out at low 70's annually for full time I think. The work is interesting as are the patients (expect to see it all). You'll have to master a broad skill set of not only practical skills but also critical thinking and diagnostic skills as well.
 
^ read the thread to fast didnt see the Ocology just say Pharm kinda use to just using Pharm as an abrev. but you are right 2 different programs nonetheless he can has bothe aspects of the field..
 
I'm studying Biochemistry and I can tell you coming from personal experience of starting uni after fucking around all highschool, get your math up to scratch it's the main problem I and everyone else I was friends with had in our first year chem (and physics,stats etc.).
 
I always hear so many people stressing the math when talking about going into chemistry... Maybe my math was already in a good state but I really don't feel like it's That big of a deal. Maybe if you want to go into physical chemistry in graduate school or something but honestly the most math I used while getting my undergrad chem degree was mostly just algebra and minimal calculus. The statistics used for analytical chemistry and quantitative analysis stuff is mostly just using formulas that you are given.

But again, maybe my math was already in a good state since I took a couple semesters of AP calc during high school.... though most of it I did not use at all and even now in a phd program I am not using much math.
 
adrian89987 said:
I always hear so many people stressing the math when talking about going into chemistry... Maybe my math was already in a good state but I really don't feel like it's That big of a deal. Maybe if you want to go into physical chemistry in graduate school or something but honestly the most math I used while getting my undergrad chem degree was mostly just algebra and minimal calculus. The statistics used for analytical chemistry and quantitative analysis stuff is mostly just using formulas that you are given.

But again, maybe my math was already in a good state since I took a couple semesters of AP calc during high school.... though most of it I did not use at all and even now in a phd program I am not using much math.
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You gotta remember the range of points people can be starting at here. Some people were either not very successful with high school algebra or they might have had a break in their education or they weren't that good at it to begin with. If you're in a phd program, you probably are or already have been TA'ing (if its chemistry). Do you not see the epic algebra fail in many of the students' work? I TA'd honors gen. chem for the first time this semester, and it was rampant even there, and these are students coming in with >4.0 high school GPAs and 30+ ACT scores.

For a student whose most recent experience with ANY sort of math besides counting money was regular old high school algebra 2, three to five years ago, the math of a college gen. chem class is going to intimidate the hell out of them and they're going to totally miss EASY chemistry concepts being taught to them because they get hung up in the math that they don't quite understand.
 
Pharmacy vs. Pharmacology?

I read in another thread that pharmacy is like knowing about the drugs and how the react, side effects, stuff like that. And pharmacology is drug research and creating new drugs and stuff. Correct me if I'm wrong.

If this is correct, my question is is becoming a pharmacist really difficult?
I'm not the best in school because I don't apply myself, leave things to the last minute, feel depressed just THINKING about doing hmwrk lol but I've been thinking about becoming a pharmacist and I wonder if I shouldn't even bother knowing how my work habits are... I'm not dumb, just lazy.

I'm in college right now in a business program and I'm almost done. Has anyone on here done a pharmacy program in university? Do they offer that in college? (Not pharm tech) and is it the kind of program where I'd have to get my shit together with no room for slacking/partying?
 
Not studying pharma myself yet, but I just applied to go to uni for it for next year so I have a bit of knowledge =D

Guessing you're from UK? It's gonna depend a lot on which uni you go to, each has a slightly different syllabus. But in general, you're probably gonna come across 3 types of pharma courses; Pharmacy, Pharmacology, and Pharmaceutical Chemistry (there's quite a few variations on the latter, always best to check individual ones). Pharmacy is gonna be combined chemistry/biology, with emphasis on drug discovery, industry, and can sometimes include stuff like psychiatry and related medical stuff. Pharmacology is gonna be mostly biology, looking at how the body reacts to different chemicals, physiology, stuff like that. And Pharma Chemistry/Sciences is (generally) gonna be looking more at synthesis, functional groups, etc. Though there's gonna be quite a lot of overlap.

The Pharmacy course is a masters, and usually you're gonna need much better grades to get onto it (grades needed for Pharmacy i've seen range from ABC to AAB, while stuff like Pharma sciences i've seen entry requirements as low as CCC). You're probably gonna need an A level of equivalent qualification in either Chemistry or Biology too.

Dunno much about how tough the courses actually are and how much work you need to put in, hopefully someone else can elaborate :)
 
I can give the United States perspective on it. Yes, it is a tough program, but not in the same difficulty tier as, say, medical school. I would say it is a rung down in difficulty from medical/dental school. Getting into a pharmacy school is the same: yes, it is competitive, but nowhere near as competitive as getting into a medical or dental school. Pharmacy is not a program that you can directly enter when you start college. It is either a program for after you get a bachelor's degree, or you can apply for it as soon as you fulfill the pharmacy school's pre-requisites. You do not have to have a bachelor's degree to start (or finish) a pharmacy program and become a pharmacist.

Back when I was considering pharmacy school, I looked at the information for a lot of schools, and I saw that the average GPA's of accepted applicants ranged from around 3.2 on the lower end up to 4.0 on the higher end. The PCAT (pharmacy college admissions test) is the pharmacy school version of the MCAT. It covers topics from a lot of courses: biology, chemistry, genetics, organic chemistry, biochemistry, anatomy, physiology. MCAT questions are deliberately made to be more difficult in terms of critical thinking AND memorization/problem solving - PCAT questions are much more focused on memorization/problem solving.

Whether you can handle that kind of program with slacking/partying or not really depends on you and your situation. The classes are hard, none of them are bs classes and there is a lot of material to cover and memorize, but if these topics come naturally to you and you aren't burdened with having to work while you go to school, you should still have plenty of time to slack and party. If, on the other hand, you struggle with one, some, or all of them, or you have to work to support yourself while you go to school, then you probably won't.

For me it was back and forth - one semester would be pretty relaxed and I could slack off and be lazy a bit, and the next semester I'd have to get really serious and set a study schedule and stick to it. As far as a career and a college goal, I think pharmacy is a really good spot for someone who is looking for a balance between something highly academic and science-y but who also wants to be paid well and have excellent job security. The trade-off is that while pharmacists are very well-educated and well-paid, many of them end up working in menial retail jobs where they spend a lot of their day doing retail customer service. They also don't seem to get the same respect from their patients that doctors do.

(Re-reading this I noticed that it seems like I'm coming across as a snotty pre-med student or doctor, talking down to pre-pharms and pharmacists. I didn't mean to, and I am neither. The experiences from which I got those conclusions about pharmacists were from my time working as a pharmacy tech. I eventually chose an entirely different, non-medical route for my post-graduate plans.)
 
You likely make a good point, though I've never TA'd gen chem only organic so there is minimal math. You're probably right though... my undergrad was an engineering school so most people around me were decent enough at math seeing as the school judged heavily on math performance for admission. Sometimes I forget I've lived a sheltered life :)
 
best pre-med schools in the US

In your opinion, what are the best schools for pre-med? I am currently enrolled to start community college in january for RN and hope to take it from there.
at first i thought i just wanted to a physicians assistant, but I tend to like to work alone, so i figure go the extra time and become a physician and open my own practice hopefully.
I have a 20month old son and i am only 20 years old, do you guys think this is a reasonable goal? or should i stick to my original idea cut school as short as possible and provide for my family ASAP, or would it be better in the long run? I'm very conflicted, but want to know the best schools around, specifically near NJ.
Thanks =D
 
Well, unless you are thinking of prestige and have mega bucks to spend, any accredited school will provide the basics for pre med. Same with medical school, any accredited medical school will do. In the end , what going to be important is that you are licensed. As far as breaking down, if you get your RN and start working it will get harder and harder to get back in school mode. 10 years of school + experience is what it will require to be an MD with ability to open up your own place, think about it.
 
I think you should work as hard as you possibly can during your first few semesters at school and use those as a guide for what would be realistic goals. If you are able to work hard and maintain nearly all "A"s in your biology, chemistry, anatomy, physiology, etc in your first few semesters, then med school or PA school are both still realistic goals. If the difficulty of the classes, parenting, work, etc is becoming at all overwhelming at this point and you aren't able to maintain mostly "A"s, then it would probably be a more realistic goal to go for the RN now, work for a while and get some experience, and then attempt to continue your education on to a master's degree in nursing, which will make you a nurse practitioner.

NPs are paid very similarly to PAs, and while there are a few key differences in their scope of practice, for the most part, an NP can do anything a PA can do and are generally just as well-qualified as PAs. Most job listings I have seen for a PA or an NP will say "PA/NP" in the job listing, so employers are happy to have either one.

Be sure to consider both the length and the cost of medical school vs these other routes. Med school is a 4 year bachelor's, a 4+x year MD depending on your specialization (at obscene tuition rates no matter where you go), and then 2+x years of residency, where you are not paid all that well. PA school is a 4 year bachelor's, then a 2-3 year program depending on the program (also expensive, but not nearly as bad as med school), and then fully-paid work. NP is a bachelor's in RN, then paid work immediately if you so choose, then 2 years for the master's of nursing (again, expensive, but less than PA school or med school), and then back to work at significantly higher pay than the RN.

That extra 4 years in med school is time you will be spending PAYING $50-100k per year instead of MAKING $60-80k, so each year is setting you back a grand total of $100k or more. So if you are looking for a good tradeoff of immediate return AND solid career with good potential, NP or PA are the most cost-effective options. The MD will make much, much more money in the long run, and has more potential for prestige and advancement, but the PA/NP route will be faaar ahead in terms of actual money made for 10 years or so.

I agree with Zapatista - which school the pre-med courses were taken as IS important, but shouldn't be your primary concern. The most important thing is actually getting the classes, a good GPA, good recommendations, and if possible, research experience and examples of yourself in leadership positions. Those are the things that med schools (PA schools too) like to see on applications. As for what medical school to attend, that's faaar down the road, and just remember that the guy who graduated dead last in his class from the lowest rated medical school in the country is still a doctor. Its probably better for you to consider the short-term goals and see how they go before you worry about the long term goal of a prestigious medical school.
 
All good points mentioned so far. As a medical student myself and an RN I'll give some simple advice. Being an RN is good if you like the work and don't mind working night or evening shifts. The money is good but the grading in the program is quite often very subjective, so may not be the best program for nailing an med school worthy GPA. For Nurse Practitioner license its usually 2 years work experience plus a 2 year masters full time. So basically in 8 years you can make 80-90 grand a year with no call. Not sure how competitive NP programs are in the states though, but definitely easier to get in to than medical school.

If you're aiming for medicine make sure you study something you enjoy. In the US GPA is king, where as up in Canada MCAT reigns supreme. Its much easier to score straight A's with studying something you enjoy versus something you just think you have to study. You''ll need a good science foundation though for the MCAT (med school entrance exam), and you're gonna want to knock that out of the park, basically aim for at least 85th percentile. I would say give yourself at least a few months of full time studying to prep for the MCAT. especially if you don't have a science degree. Also you will want to look at which school list which classes as prerequisites for application. You'll also want to have a healthy resume of volunteering and extracurricular activities. Basically trying to get in to medical school can easily become a full time job and will take up a large portion of your out of class time. Another caveat to keep in mind is that just because you're a qualified applicant and work hard doesn't mean you will be accepted. It often takes a few application cycles before being accepted.

Therefore its always good to have a back up plan if you're thinking of applying to medical school. There's no guarantee you will get in. But nursing is a great back up plan and lets you build medically relevant experience as well. From a time management perspective I would definitely say that RN is by far the easier program both in terms of time commitment and intensity of program. If you think you can do well in the RN program then I wold definitely go that route as it provides an excellent career if you don't get in to medicine. Just make sure you're taking a degree program and not a community college certificate course.

Best of luck.
 
wizekrak said:
All good points mentioned so far. As a medical student myself and an RN I'll give some simple advice. Being an RN is good if you like the work and don't mind working night or evening shifts. The money is good but the grading in the program is quite often very subjective, so may not be the best program for nailing an med school worthy GPA. For Nurse Practitioner license its usually 2 years work experience plus a 2 year masters full time. So basically in 8 years you can make 80-90 grand a year with no call. Not sure how competitive NP programs are in the states though, but definitely easier to get in to than medical school.

If you're aiming for medicine make sure you study something you enjoy. In the US GPA is king, where as up in Canada MCAT reigns supreme. Its much easier to score straight A's with studying something you enjoy versus something you just think you have to study. You''ll need a good science foundation though for the MCAT (med school entrance exam), and you're gonna want to knock that out of the park, basically aim for at least 85th percentile. I would say give yourself at least a few months of full time studying to prep for the MCAT. especially if you don't have a science degree. Also you will want to look at which school list which classes as prerequisites for application. You'll also want to have a healthy resume of volunteering and extracurricular activities. Basically trying to get in to medical school can easily become a full time job and will take up a large portion of your out of class time. Another caveat to keep in mind is that just because you're a qualified applicant and work hard doesn't mean you will be accepted. It often takes a few application cycles before being accepted.

Therefore its always good to have a back up plan if you're thinking of applying to medical school. There's no guarantee you will get in. But nursing is a great back up plan and lets you build medically relevant experience as well. From a time management perspective I would definitely say that RN is by far the easier program both in terms of time commitment and intensity of program. If you think you can do well in the RN program then I wold definitely go that route as it provides an excellent career if you don't get in to medicine. Just make sure you're taking a degree program and not a community college certificate course.

Best of luck.
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Thank you, you all gave great advice. I'm working for my associates in science degree while pursing PRNS (class description: http://www.ucc.edu/academics/programs/nursingmuhlenberg.aspx) so hopefully that will help me on the MCAT.
 
I'm halfway through a pharmacy degree, you need to work hard and make it your number one priority. If you're passionate about what you do you should automatically find yourself doing the assignments and studying because you actually enjoy it. I went through hard times while I've been studying (kicked out of home, drinking too much etc) but all that time, didn't matter how messed up I was, I knew that I wouldn't let myself fail at it because it's the one thing in life that nobody can take away from me once I have it. So if you're interested in it, go for it. It's the best decision I've ever made.
 
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